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Proposal: H. Fleury for A. Nylander

Rasmus CacOlainen

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
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Well that's Hanifin for Reinhart-lite in case teams don't want to give up top talent. I think it makes sense for both teams. Maybe small add for balance but nothing dealbreaking. Do we do it?

:popcorn:
 
A.Nylander had a disappointing D+1 season but he has more value than Fleury by a fair amount.
 
trading for names... never a good idea

Fleury has dropped significantly in terms of projecting as a prospect to an NHLer.

Fleury = Griffin Reinhart 2.0

Trading Alex Nylander for him would be criminally stupid for Buffalo.
 
Jame said:
trading for names... never a good idea

Fleury has dropped significantly in terms of projecting as a prospect to an NHLer.

Fleury = Griffin Reinhart 2.0

Trading Alex Nylander for him would be criminally stupid for Buffalo.
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I haven't watched him as I don't watch AHL. What makes you think he's re-gressed? His numbers seem OK in the AHL. Genuine question.
 
Jame said:
trading for names... never a good idea

Fleury has dropped significantly in terms of projecting as a prospect to an NHLer.

Fleury = Griffin Reinhart 2.0

Trading Alex Nylander for him would be criminally stupid for Buffalo.
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Please tell me how Fleury has "dropped significantly in terms of projecting as an NHLer"? He literally just had a good-to-great season in the AHL, his first there, I might add. I'm assuming you see he hasn't played in NHL game yet so you think he's busting, but in reality we're bringing him along slowly because we have the luxury to.
 
CacOBG said:
I haven't watched him as I don't watch AHL. What makes you think he's re-gressed? His numbers seem OK in the AHL. Genuine question.
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His draft status implies potential top pair talent. But his post draft season was crap, his draft +2 season saw him rebound to where he was 2 years before. His AHL season was ordinary. If Nylander just finished his Draft +3 year (As Fleury did), and it wasn't all that impressive... then maybe this trade makes sense. Right now, something like Justin Bailey for Haydn Fleury makes much more sense.

Your trade offer is basically offering the value as if the last few years didn't happen...
 
CacOBG said:
I haven't watched him as I don't watch AHL. What makes you think he's re-gressed? His numbers seem OK in the AHL. Genuine question.
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Talking out of his nether-regions. Fleury was arguably the best player on the Charlotte Checkers this year. Fleury has developed his overall game and projects as a big, reliable top-4 TWD.

Griffin Reinhart is a terrible comparable other than to blindly point at a recent top-10 D pick. Fleury's skating is one of his best attributes while Reinhart - not so much.
 
Aho Mitakuye Oyasin said:
Talking out of his nether-regions. Fleury was arguably the best player on the Charlotte Checkers this year. Fleury has developed his overall game and projects as a big, reliable top-4 TWD.

Griffin Reinhart is a terrible comparable other than to blindly point at a recent top-10 D pick. Fleury's skating is one of his best attributes while Reinhart - not so much.
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If he's NHL-ready I take that deal. Let Guhle and Fleury fight for roster spot next year behind McCabe and Antipin. And the ohter stays in Rochester to develop on top pairing minutes. I do like to have a good winge rprospect like Nylander but for me fixing D is essential and this trade makes too much sense in this regard. Meanwhile, he should be on Carolina's roster at the start of 18-19 season, which I'm sure they will benefit from too.

Saying Fleury is Reinhart based on stats only is like saying Nylander will be just like other bust wingers drafted in top 10...and his points last season don't even look bad. If his defensive play is solid it's no brainer from Buf perspective for me.
 
"Fleury is developing great... yea, I'd trade him for a completely unproven 19 year old winger"

:rolleyes:
 
Jame said:
His draft status implies potential top pair talent. But his post draft season was crap, his draft +2 season saw him rebound to where he was 2 years before. His AHL season was ordinary. If Nylander just finished his Draft +3 year (As Fleury did), and it wasn't all that impressive... then maybe this trade makes sense. Right now, something like Justin Bailey for Haydn Fleury makes much more sense.

Your trade offer is basically offering the value as if the last few years didn't happen...
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His +1 season was 'crap' in terms of numbers because both the 'Canes and Red Deer wanted him to concentrate on his defensive game. In his +2 season, they loosened the reigns on him because his defensive game was much improved, hence his offensive input reaching it's pre-draft levels. His AHL season started out average/ordinary but around December, he began to really come on and by the end of the season, he was arguably the best player on the Checkers. He's pretty much guaranteed to be on the NHL squad as our 3rd pair LD. But yeah, that's pretty terrible for a 21-year old. Bust, next Reinhart lulz.
 
Jame said:
"Fleury is developing great... yea, I'd trade him for a completely unproven 19 year old winger"

:rolleyes:
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It's called taking from a position of strength (young defense) and addressing a position of weakness (dynamic forwards). It's not hard to figure out.
 
Brock Anton said:
It's called taking from a position of strength (young defense) and addressing a position of weakness (dynamic forwards). It's not hard to figure out.
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It's okay. a year from now when Hanifin has broken through, Slavin is still Slavin and Fleury is demonstrating that the Canes are really a defenseman factory, looking like our 3rd-best top-pair quality LHD...we can have the same conversation with Buffalo fans except it'll be Sam Reinhart and not Alex Nylander it costs them to fix their D. :D
 
Brock Anton said:
His +1 season was 'crap' in terms of numbers because both the 'Canes and Red Deer wanted him to concentrate on his defensive game. In his +2 season, they loosened the reigns on him because his defensive game was much improved, hence his offensive input reaching it's pre-draft levels. His AHL season started out average/ordinary but around December, he began to really come on and by the end of the season, he was arguably the best player on the Checkers. He's pretty much guaranteed to be on the NHL squad as our 3rd pair LD. But yeah, that's pretty terrible for a 21-year old. Bust, next Reinhart lulz.
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Is that a narrative you invented on the Carolina board?

I don't think he's a bust yet.
 
Jame said:
Is that a narrative you invented on the Carolina board?

I don't think he's a bust yet.
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No, it was said by Francis when he was sent back to Red Deer back after camp in 2014. I'll try to find the quote, but it's well known that he was told to concentrate more on his defense that season. So unless you think I'm Ron Francis, then no, I didn't create that narrative.

You called him Griffin Reinhart 2.0 (hilarious awful comparison aside), that quite clearly seemed to hint that you think he's either going to bust, or is a bust.

Jame said:
So Fleury for Bailey

we're good. deal.
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You can have Trevor Carrick for Bailey. But Fleury? Yeah, it's Nylander. Don't like it? Cool. Go look somewhere else for defense.
 
Brock Anton said:
No, it was said by Francis when he was sent back to Red Deer back after camp in 2014. I'll try to find the quote, but it's well known that he was told to concentrate more on his defense that season. So unless you think I'm Ron Francis, then no, I didn't create that narrative.

You called him Griffin Reinhart 2.0 (hilarious awful comparison aside), that quite clearly seemed to hint that you think he's either going to bust, or is a bust.



You can have Trevor Carrick for Bailey. But Fleury? Yeah, it's Nylander. Don't like it? Cool. Go look somewhere else for defense.
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Doesn't amtter what he likes lol What do the GMs want to do is what I'm interested... From what I'm reading it's ideal basis for a deal.
 
Brock Anton said:
No, it was said by Francis when he was sent back to Red Deer back after camp in 2014. I'll try to find the quote, but it's well known that he was told to concentrate more on his defense that season. So unless you think I'm Ron Francis, then no, I didn't create that narrative.

You called him Griffin Reinhart 2.0 (hilarious awful comparison aside), that quite clearly seemed to hint that you think he's either going to bust, or is a bust.
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yea, yea... i know... the generic sending a top pick down to "work on defense" comment... standard issue. It's funny to see a fan base justify a ****** season with it. We have the same comment when Sam Reinhart was sent back to junior. But you know... he didn't have a ****** season while working on his defensive game and strength.

I'll eat the Griffin Reinhart comparison. Too soon.


You can have Trevor Carrick for Bailey. But Fleury? Yeah, it's Nylander. Don't like it? Cool. Go look somewhere else for defense.
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What? You want a dynamic scoring winger. He's got back to back 20+ goal seasons at 20 and 21 years old in the AHL. He's big and explosive. He's got work to do to round out his game, but he's a speed and power goal scorer.

Is his draft status not high enough?

Who's the last 20 goal prospect you produced in the AHL?
 
CacOBG said:
Doesn't amtter what he likes lol What do the GMs want to do is what I'm interested... From what I'm reading it's ideal basis for a deal.
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It is. A young NHL-ready defenseman with potential for a young forward with potential. It's a pure hockey trade and based on each team's needs/strengths, it makes sense. It's not quite Hanifin/Reinhart, but it does it's job.
 
Jame said:
yea, yea... i know... the generic sending a top pick down to "work on defense" comment... standard issue. It's funny to see a fan base justify a ****** season with it. We have the same comment when Sam Reinhart was sent back to junior. But you know... he didn't have a ****** season while working on his defensive game and strength.

I'll eat the Griffin Reinhart comparison. Too soon.
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It was a **** season offensively, but by most accounts, his defense improved dramatically. And for a defenseman, I don't think it's insane to say that defense part of the game is more important. We saw a much improved all-around Fleury in his +2 season, and his **** +1 season had a lot to do with that.

What? You want a dynamic scoring winger. He's got back to back 20+ goal seasons at 20 and 21 years old in the AHL. He's big and explosive. He's got work to do to round out his game, but he's a speed and power goal scorer.

Is his draft status not high enough?

Who's the last 20 goal prospect you produced in the AHL?
Click to expand...

Bailey is a fine player/prospect, but I'm not trading Fleury to get him. If we're trading him or Bean (or Hanifin) we want a guy with bonafide top 6 potential. Bailey is good, but I wouldn't call him a guy who's set to be a top 6 player at the next level. I'll be fairer and offer McKeown for Bailey instead of Carrick, but that's about the max I'd offer.

So someone who scored 20+ goals in the AHL or a propsect with the potential to score 20+ in the NHL? Either way, we had Zach Boychuk score 20+ four times in the AHL (including his 21 and 22 year old seasons).... and I don't think he panned out.
 
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