Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Early Trade Deadline

[Ernie]

With all that is coming out, management’s 180 in 2022 between Horvat and Miller feels even stranger now than it did then.

They wanted a player who brings intensity, and they got that. He's also a loose cannon.

I don't think it was wrong to swap Horvat with Hronek. He was too comfortable with losing.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

i don't doubt pettersson can be a difficult teammate but miller had an awful reputation prior to vancouver and has now been central in two different locker room controversies in vancouver. anyone who thinks this is a pettersson problem has their head in the sand

It's a clash of cultures. JT Miller is the type of player who would have thrived and fit into a 90s dressing room.

You probably have a ton of players nowadays who would get freaked out and uncomfortable sitting next to a hothead like that, especially introverts.

 

[Jerry the great]

With all that is coming out, management’s 180 in 2022 between Horvat and Miller feels even stranger now than it did then.

I think they signed Miller because he'd been a way more impactful player and was willing to sign long term at reasonable $$

Maybe they hoped to be able to sign both, but Horvat went on an unsustainable heater and priced himself out.

It's a clash of cultures. JT Miller is the type of player who would have thrived and fit into a 90s dressing room.

You probably have a ton of players nowadays who would get freaked out and uncomfortable sitting next to a hothead like that, especially introverts.

people seemed pretty happy with him as recently as a week ago.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Was edged relentlessly by trade rumours this week to no release

Another week of worse rumor mongering is definitely happening

 

[supercanuck]

I’m numb. I don’t care anymore, trade anyone not named Hughes and I wouldn’t blink

I'm here now too. I fully believe that trading JT is the obvious choice, but also believe that Tocc, and probably Allvin, would choose JT all things being equal. I don't care. Just trade someone and get the best return you can and move on.

This type of thing just pushes Hughes further towards New Jersey too. Think of all the cr@p that he's gone through since joining his team. I'd be running to my brothers' team the first chance I get too.

 

[pitseleh]

I think they signed Miller because he'd been a way more impactful player and was willing to sign long term at reasonable $$

Maybe they hoped to be able to sign both, but Horvat went on an unsustainable heater and priced himself out.

What I find strange is the order of events. They were looking to trade Miller at the deadline / early in the offseason, and were trying to re-sign Horvat. Then in August they re-sign Miller out of the blue and it is widely reported it came together quickly. The 180 always felt a little odd, just especially so now with what is coming out.

 

[Vector]

Rick Dhaliwal's interview with Halford and Brough.

Canucks Star Players

• Last 7 goals have come from the bottom-6
• No points from Pettersson in 5 games; Miller 2 goals in 13 games; Boeser 2 goals in 13 games; Garland no goals in 10 games
• Boeser, Miller, & Pettersson combined for 1 shot
• Need every player pulling on the rope in the same direction
• Not worried about the dressing room but is about the consistency on the ice

Christmas Roster Freeze

• Does not remember that much hype around the Christmas freeze
• Not surprised they didn’t do anything
• Not viewed as a big deal because very few games are played

Canucks Plans

• Gets the sense that Bowen Byram is one of the Canucks top targets
• A team executive told Dhaliwal that it’s hard to find a top-4 defenceman on the trade market right now; price are high and teams want top prospects
• Lots of teams still want to make the playoffs
• Every team in the league had interest in Kaapo Kakko
• Gets the feeling that Jim Rutherford will not sit idle
• Would not be surprised to see a roster shake-up in January if they continue to play inconsistently
• Everything went right and this year is the opposite

Nils Hoglander

• No goals in his last 26 games and 21 games without a point
• Low confidence level
• Agent talked to the team a few weeks ago and everyone agreed to work together to get his confidence back
• Asked his agent if he got permission to talk to other teams or has asked for a trade and didn’t get a response
• Has known the agent for many years
• May be past the point of being fixable
• Zero trade value
• Had some extension talks with him in the summer but nothing serious
• One of the most conditioned players in camp and wanted to set an example for other kids
• Does not know how they could possibly move him
• Boeser and Hoglander are the only drafted wingers on the NHL roster
• Just looks like he’s not a Tocchet guy and compares the situation to Kuzmenko
• Onus is on the player too; the messages have been relayed

Local Media

• One reporter on the road trip and the Canucks didn’t even send their in-house reporter
• Very sad reflection of the industry
• No reporters from newspapers or radio on any road trips
• Haven’t been able to get any answers because no reporters traveling

Practice Facility

• Ones the Flames build their new rink, the Canucks will be the only team in the league without a practice facility
• Was traction at UBC but there’s so much red tape

 

[supercanuck]

Rick Dhaliwal's interview with Halford and Brough.

Canucks Star Players

• Last 7 goals have come from the bottom-6
• No points from Pettersson in 5 games; Miller 2 goals in 13 games; Boeser 2 goals in 13 games; Garland no goals in 10 games
• Boeser, Miller, & Pettersson combined for 1 shot
• Need every player pulling on the rope in the same direction
• Not worried about the dressing room but is about the consistency on the ice

Christmas Roster Freeze

• Does not remember that much hype around the Christmas freeze
• Not surprised they didn’t do anything
• Not viewed as a big deal because very few games are played

Canucks Plans

• Gets the sense that Bowen Byram is one of the Canucks top targets
• A team executive told Dhaliwal that it’s hard to find a top-4 defenceman on the trade market right now; price are high and teams want top prospects
• Lots of teams still want to make the playoffs
• Every team in the league had interest in Kaapo Kakko
• Gets the feeling that Jim Rutherford will not sit idle
• Would not be surprised to see a roster shake-up in January if they continue to play inconsistently
• Everything went right and this year is the opposite

Nils Hoglander

• No goals in his last 26 games and 21 games without a point
• Low confidence level
• Agent talked to the team a few weeks ago and everyone agreed to work together to get his confidence back
• Asked his agent if he got permission to talk to other teams or has asked for a trade and didn’t get a response
• Has known the agent for many years
• May be past the point of being fixable
• Zero trade value
• Had some extension talks with him in the summer but nothing serious
• One of the most conditioned players in camp and wanted to set an example for other kids
• Does not know how they could possibly move him
• Boeser and Hoglander are the only drafted wingers on the NHL roster
• Just looks like he’s not a Tocchet guy and compares the situation to Kuzmenko
• Onus is on the player too; the messages have been relayed

Local Media

• One reporter on the road trip and the Canucks didn’t even send their in-house reporter
• Very sad reflection of the industry
• No reporters from newspapers or radio on any road trips
• Haven’t been able to get any answers because no reporters traveling

Practice Facility

• Ones the Flames build their new rink, the Canucks will be the only team in the league without a practice facility
• Was traction at UBC but there’s so much red tape

Is the 1 reporter IMac?

 

[valkynax]

Is the 1 reporter IMac?

I'm still not hugely upset with how things have turned out.

Let's face it, we've seen WAY worse for WAY longer before.

I have reasonable faith that our current front office will sort things out. Whether it's right or wrong, they give me the feeling that they are not here to wait for the bus. With the way things are going now, Moleman probably won't want to want until Hronek's return.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I don’t think there’s any conceivable way you carry on with two players, both signed to long term deals, who hate each other, in the same locker room.

Get one of them out. My preference is Miller considering his history and problematic personality/attitude/whatever tf.

 

[valkynax]

I don’t think there’s any conceivable way you carry on with two players, both signed to long term deals, who hate each other, in the same locker room.

Get one of them out. My preference is Miller considering his history and problematic personality/attitude/whatever tf.

I like Miller, I thought his blazing passion when channeled properly can propel the team in the right direction. However...his recent absence which resulted in Pete's resurgence, and his showing since the return, makes me doubt his place on this team.

Fortunately, his contract is decent, so if the chips are down and stakes are up, it should not be super difficult to find a sensible trade.

 

[StreetHawk]

I don’t think there’s any conceivable way you carry on with two players, both signed to long term deals, who hate each other, in the same locker room.

Get one of them out. My preference is Miller considering his history and problematic personality/attitude/whatever tf.

Main reason really is age. Miller is 31 right now vs Petey's 26. Keeping Miller, likely need to get it done within 3 more years realistically. Petey, you have basically the rest of his contract.

Though, the lack of prospects might not matter which one you keep.

 

[Bobby9]

Theirs only 3 teams I would trade EP to:

Sabres for Tage + Byram

Kings for Byfield and Clarke

Canes for Jarvis and Nikishin

Main reason really is age. Miller is 31 right now vs Petey's 26. Keeping Miller, likely need to get it done within 3 more years realistically. Petey, you have basically the rest of his contract.
.

50% of the posters think EP 40 has a chronic injury that prevents him from being as productive as he could be. Whats age matter when the younger one is already breaking down?

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Screw both EP and JT.

Trade #1
Miller to NYR for Lafreniere, Schneider + 2025 or 2026 1st

Trade #2
EP to CBJ for KJ, Sillinger + Mateychuk

Lafreniere-Johnson-Boeser
DeBrusk-Sillinger-Garland
Joshua-Suter-Sherwood
Sasson-Blueger-Heinen
Hoglander

Hughes-Schneider
Soucy-Hronek
Forbort-Myers
VD

Demko
Lankinen

Still leaves room for Hoglander and VD trade but removes the elephants in the the room.

 

[theguardianII]

I like Miller, I thought his blazing passion when channeled properly can propel the team in the right direction. However...his recent absence which resulted in Pete's resurgence, and his showing since the return, makes me doubt his place on this team.

Fortunately, his contract is decent, so if the chips are down and stakes are up, it should not be super difficult to find a sensible trade.

The team needs a Miller for the playoffs.
The team needs Pettersson playing to his potential.
The team needs a coach that can fix the unfixable.

The Petersson Miller conflict was not so bad when Pettersson was in his first few years here, Petey may not have liked it but Miller was the veteran.

Now they are on equal footing and Miller is short term but very necessary under Tocchet's system and Petey struggles with Tocchet type players. Goal scorers like Kuzmenko play a different game than desperate AHL players hoping for a contract. It just happened that Kuz and Petey fit so well together but neither has done well without since.

But there are long term issues to deal with as well, the cap being a huge one, the construction of the team, the coaching.
This team has as many or more issues than the Rangers without the success the Rangers have enjoyed for years.
Does anyone not consider that Hughes, being a normal human being with all the emotions, might not be happy losing? Apart from personal success his entire career to date from the start with the Canucks has been on a losing team with one exception. His last contract took to FA whereas Pettersson's he was still an RFA by his choice.
Do people think the players don't know hockey? That they float around with fantasy dreams that this team will win a cup when they struggle in the room and if they don't get Vezina calibre goal-tending they can't out score opposing teams or that teams around them aren't improving faster with many more younger players?

The team in three years will be totally different.

Trading now IF the prospects work out might be the very best option, there needs to be a retooling or more and that means ALL the core should be considered but Pettersson might get the best return and Miller can too.

The structure of the team looks like something very major needs to happen it has too many boards guys and not enough star level players. Ya, I know many forum folks will say Boeser or Garland are stars, maybe on this team but others? Then there is often injured Demko. And Hughes who will have for the first time in his career a choice he can make, maybe a human choice.

Maybe just trade them both, maybe not at the same time but if still out of a playoff spot, Miller now and Pettersson if they can get him to waive if he is good enough for the 2026 1rst overall but I think that might be when Hughes get dealt in his last year for a bushel basket of picks and prospects. Maybe in two years.

I think Tocchet is pretty close to being done, isn't he a lame duck coach now?

 

[sting101]

This is on management and the coaches to show some leadership right now.

 

[Leif Rohlin]

I think there's a lot more going on here than just Miller and Pettersson not getting along.

We could see at the beginning of the season that Miller wasn't right physically, and at some point it became apparent that he wasn't right mentally either. He was clearly losing focus on the ice, Tocchet ended up benching him and then he took a leave of absence.

He was obviously going through some personal stuff that I believe had nothing to do with hockey, but it was affecting him on the ice and probably led to some conflict with multiple teammates/coaches, and that may still be the case even if the temperature has come down somewhat. I imagine they're giving him some leeway knowing the situation but it would certainly affect the dynamic of the team.

This also could be a case where the player asked to be moved (and not necessarily for anything hockey-related) and they're trying to work with him and see if the situation can be resolved, because moving him would almost certainly set the team back at least for this year. I hope that's not the case but I'm starting to wonder.

 

[Ernie]

This is on management and the coaches to show some leadership right now.

Unfortunately the coach seems to have set off this entire chain of events by tasking Miller to "toughen up" Pettersson.

The only way it out of this might be to fire the coach and put Miller in the player's assistance for an extended time. If the team is in a playoff spot when he comes back you see if you can re-integrate him. If not, you trade him.

 

[Bobby9]

Unfortunately the coach seems to have set off this entire chain of events by tasking Miller to "toughen up" Pettersson.

The only way it out of this might be to fire the coach and put Miller in the player's assistance for an extended time. If the team is in a playoff spot when he comes back you see if you can re-integrate him. If not, you trade him.

I think since hes 'clearly injured' we should put EP40 on IR until he heals up. If that never happens they should put him on LTIR permanently.

Thats how you sound

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Miller is like mining or crypto. UP and down like a yo-yo.

If he wants out, then you try and trade him.

Issue is his NMC.

 

[theguardianII]

Theirs only 3 teams I would trade EP to:

Sabres for Tage + Byram

Kings for Byfield and Clarke

Canes for Jarvis and Nikishin


50% of the posters think EP 40 has a chronic injury that prevents him from being as productive as he could be. Whats age matter when the younger one is already breaking down?

That is a rumor only, evidently he has never got treatment for tendonitis. I think his main problem is trying to play like Tocchet did or wants and just never ws that kind of player and Tocchet doesn't know how to be a head coach of a struggling star player.

Screw both EP and JT.

Trade #1
Miller to NYR for Lafreniere, Schneider + 2025 or 2026 1st

Trade #2
EP to CBJ for KJ, Sillinger + Mateychuk

Lafreniere-Johnson-Boeser
DeBrusk-Sillinger-Garland
Joshua-Suter-Sherwood
Sasson-Blueger-Heinen
Hoglander

Hughes-Schneider
Soucy-Hronek
Forbort-Myers
VD

Demko
Lankinen

Still leaves room for Hoglander and VD trade but removes the elephants in the the room.

IMO before those types of trades are made management has to decide on whether or not Tocchet sticks around. His coaching system is not conducive to a puck possession or rush players. he coaches like he played and likes players like that. Euros aren't his players

 

[sting101]

Unfortunately the coach seems to have set off this entire chain of events by tasking Miller to "toughen up" Pettersson.

The only way it out of this might be to fire the coach and put Miller in the player's assistance for an extended time. If the team is in a playoff spot when he comes back you see if you can re-integrate him. If not, you trade him.

You and Puckmunchkin keep over dramatizing this crap. "Players assistance"?"fire the coach"?

It's probably why you get the 2 polarizing sides of the MIller or Pettersson sides taking shots back and forth. But for some reason it continues

I've literally thrown down with one of my best friends and teammates in practice and 2 weeks later been right back to buddies laughing about it. These guys get roughed up every game by hits with intent to hurt. It's crazy to think a battle drill a couple words and slashes has made 2 players not play their best on ice months later. It's actually kinda pathetic

The whole Tocchet "set this off" is pure speculation.

 

[Ernie]

I think since hes 'clearly injured' we should put EP40 on IR until he heals up. If that never happens they should put him on LTIR permanently.

Thats how you sound

Um ok

You and Puckmunchkin keep over dramatizing this crap. "Players assistance"?"fire the coach"?

It's probably why you get the 2 polarizing sides of the MIller or Pettersson sides taking shots back and forth. But for some reason it continues

I've literally thrown down with one of my best friends and teammates in practice and 2 weeks later been right back to buddies laughing about it. These guys get roughed up every game by hits with intent to hurt. It's crazy to think a battle drill a couple words and slashes has made 2 players not play their best on ice months later. It's actually kinda pathetic

The whole Tocchet "set this off" is pure speculation.

Pettersson and Miller are not best friends, that should be clear by now. Miller doesn't seem to have best friends, or maybe not even friends at all at this point.

 

[Quinning]

Jesus f***ing Christ...is this core already done?

This feels like an Ottawa Senators type situation.

 

[Grip it N RYP it]

thats tank level stuff for this and next years draft.

Remove every ounce of drama

For Hagens and McKenna