Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Christmas Presents

[VanJack]

Sooner or later when you keep signing UFA d-men every summer, you're going to get burned.

I think the Canucks had a favorable impression on Desharnais in last spring's playoffs, and reasoned that there was still some untapped potential there which could be developed working with guys like Foote and Gonchar.

So much for that theory. If you can't transition the puck effectively, it doesn't matter how big you are or how much 'potential' is there.

Some team desperate for blueline help might look at him, at the TDL. But the second year on that contract is a bit of a killer.

 

[Bgav]

Sooner or later when you keep signing UFA d-men every summer, you're going to get burned.

I think the Canucks had a favorable impression on Desharnais in last spring's playoffs, and reasoned that there was still some untapped potential there which could be developed working with guys like Foote and Gonchar.

So much for that theory. If you can't transition the puck effectively, it doesn't matter how big you are or how much 'potential' is there.

Some team desperate for blueline help might look at him, at the TDL. But the second year on that contract is a bit of a killer.

I don't get this, he was so bad against us. Not sure what they saw

 

[Rowlet]

I don't get this, he was so bad against us. Not sure what they saw

6'7

 

[Jerry the great]

Sooner or later when you keep signing UFA d-men every summer, you're going to get burned.

I think the Canucks had a favorable impression on Desharnais in last spring's playoffs, and reasoned that there was still some untapped potential there which could be developed working with guys like Foote and Gonchar.

So much for that theory. If you can't transition the puck effectively, it doesn't matter how big you are or how much 'potential' is there.

Some team desperate for blueline help might look at him, at the TDL. But the second year on that contract is a bit of a killer.

IMO, he'll be a piece ($$ offset) in the outbound package to improve our D, just as Kuzmenko was last year despite being signed for an additional season.

 

[bossram]

Ok go back to Desharnais Heinen Karlsson for KeAndre Miller then. Rangers will be drooling over that package.

The point is Suter has had a hot start (22% shooting vs his typical 12-13%) and represents value and for some teams a stop gap top6 who would probably re sign at a decent rate. For us he's a good player but not great as a top6 or as a 3C and will want a significant raise.

You have to give something to get teams don't want all our bad contracts. As i said it would be contingent on Raty taking steps he hasn't yet or maybe if you get Krebs Jokiharju and move Suter Heinen Desharnais you take that and run

It just makes no sense to trade Suter. He provides far more value to the Canucks than his perceived trade value.

What contender/playoff team wants to add a value middle-six centre, but at the same time is willing to give back a top-four defenseman in return? What non-playoff team is trading for a pending UFA who will need a raise? Please, legitimately answer these questions.

Or just take your L and move on.

 

[bossram]

I don't really think Heinen and Desharnais are comparable at all. Desharnais doesn't look like a consistent NHL player, and certainly not on a competitive team, while Heinen looks fines to me although his point totals are bit lower than you'd expect.

Agreed on Heinen. The totals would be higher if played higher in the lineup (or they kept him with Blueger/Sherwood), but otherwise he's doing what you'd expect.

I kinda find the discourse on Desharnais a bit off, IMO. He is certainly overpaid to be the #6. But as an NHL player, by my eye, he hasn't been that bad. He's been pretty serviceable when paired with Brannstrom, and less so when not. He's a solid PKer.

Of course, if he has to be a cap casualty to make an upgrade, no issue. I just don't think he's been "below NHL level".

 

[Bleach Clean]

Ppl still bringing up Ethan bear as any kind of option is laughable nonsense and peak dim jim.

Ethan bear is garbage and not an NHL player, is not, and has not been for many years and many franchises.

Bear had played 257 NHL games over 5 consecutive seasons prior to entering into Player Assistance. The fact that he is in the AHL now, after coming back from PA and playing behind WSH's deep defense corps, does not denote his future projection, imo.

Finding value beyond the obvious options is anti-Dim Jim.

Nobody is trading for Heinen or Desharnais. Give your head a shake. WTF.

"Here have these crappy contracts we literally just signed ... durrrr."

I used to think another team wouldn't take on the Poolman contract either Gr1t... Any player can be moved, it's just a matter of the return.

Desharnais at least is a RHD. We've seen how overvalued they can be. His underlying profile has been good, but primarily when paired with Brannstrom (small sample). Surely, someone would take a chance there.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Bear had played 257 NHL games over 5 consecutive seasons prior to entering into Player Assistance. The fact that he is in the AHL now, after coming back from PA and playing behind WSH's deep defense corps, does not denote his future projection, imo.

Finding value beyond the obvious options is anti-Dim Jim.

Bear is an ahler, doesn't do nor add anything to this teams current iteration and direction.

He has not been able to stick on multiple nhl teams (including this one), not even in a seventh dmam role, frequently healthy scratched, waived, and demoted, now also overpaid significantly.

A dozen nhl teams are and have been looking for defensemen, some desperately, and yet none are after Ethan.
But also claiming such household name quality players like regula and mermis ..

Why some ppl are still even thinking about bear, let alone continuing to suggest him as any kind of solution here is laughable, he's just not good.

 

[Jerry the great]

I don't get this, he was so bad against us. Not sure what they saw

Our PK has been below average to horrible since Rutherford's arrival. VD's best quality has been PK utility, so there's one box checked.

They seem to value size on the back end....another box checked

I think they probably felt there was some development potential as well considering the low GP # and that he was able to elevate his game at the AHL level relatively quickly - despite turning pro just in time for the pandemic - his numbers in 21/22 were really quite good. Although the jump to the NHL wasn't totally smooth, he got there. Fresh off of their success refining Myers' game, they probably got out too far over their ski's on this adventure. I wouldn't be surprised if his puck skills develop to a passable level in a slightly lower pressure environment (non playoff team), but he seems terrified to have the puck on his stick here.

 

[Leif Rohlin]

Agreed on Heinen. The totals would be higher if played higher in the lineup (or they kept him with Blueger/Sherwood), but otherwise he's doing what you'd expect.

I kinda find the discourse on Desharnais a bit off, IMO. He is certainly overpaid to be the #6. But as an NHL player, by my eye, he hasn't been that bad. He's been pretty serviceable when paired with Brannstrom, and less so when not. He's a solid PKer.

Of course, if he has to be a cap casualty to make an upgrade, no issue. I just don't think he's been "below NHL level".

The bigger issue was adding a guy like him to the defense corps we already had, especially after re-signing Tyler Myers.

Overpaid as a #6, really not a good #6 on a contending team, and deficient in the areas we were already deficient in. Just the wrong move to make and it was obvious the day he was signed.

Heinen is a good player, one of the guys I was hoping we'd go after and I agree he can do more with better linemates.

 

[MS]

Agreed on Heinen. The totals would be higher if played higher in the lineup (or they kept him with Blueger/Sherwood), but otherwise he's doing what you'd expect.

I kinda find the discourse on Desharnais a bit off, IMO. He is certainly overpaid to be the #6. But as an NHL player, by my eye, he hasn't been that bad. He's been pretty serviceable when paired with Brannstrom, and less so when not. He's a solid PKer.

Of course, if he has to be a cap casualty to make an upgrade, no issue. I just don't think he's been "below NHL level".

I don’t think Desharnais has been ‘absolutely terrible’ or anything. He just looks like a low-event #7 RHD with PK utility and the problem is that we have literally that exact player/role already filled by Juulsen at $800k. His $2 million is thus just totally superfluous and needs to be moved to facilitate upgrades higher up the blueline group.

 

[sting101]

It just makes no sense to trade Suter. He provides far more value to the Canucks than his perceived trade value.

What contender/playoff team wants to add a value middle-six centre, but at the same time is willing to give back a top-four defenseman in return? What non-playoff team is trading for a pending UFA who will need a raise? Please, legitimately answer these questions.

Or just take your L and move on.

Take your L? I didn't know you were dealing in real moves and had that kinda access to who and what GMs are willing to do?

I already laid one simple one out.

Add a value player in Suter to a team looking to make playoffs like Buffalo to be the 2C between Cozens and Benson (so Kulich at 20 can go back and develop in the AHL) while taking back a weaker but younger Krebs and their UFA D in Jokiharju. In doing so maybe we unload Heinen or Desharnais which helps towards next year

Blueger can go back to 3C and have Krebs Raty Amen at 4C. Jokiharju can move beside Hughes or Soucy temporarily and gives us a legit NHL RD with upside if he fits and we want to re sign him.

Suter Heinen for Carrier Sissons. They get a C to move Stamkos back to the wing as Novak has not worked out and a top9 W. We get a right shot C/RW PKer in Sissons and Carrier who can spell Willander until he's ready

 

[Bleach Clean]

Bear is an ahler, doesn't do nor add anything to this teams current iteration and direction.

He has not been able to stick on multiple nhl teams (including this one), not even in a seventh dmam role, frequently healthy scratched, waived, and demoted, now also overpaid significantly.

A dozen nhl teams are and have been looking for defensemen, some desperately, and yet none are after Ethan.
But also claiming such household name quality players like regula and mermis ..

Why some ppl are still even thinking about bear, let alone continuing to suggest him as any kind of solution here is laughable, he's just not good.

The bar here isn't high... We're talking about beating Desharnais, Juulsen and Friedman for a spot. Bear can do this. In fact, when here, Bear did beat out Juulsen in the rotation (who is playing ahead of Desharnais and Friedman this year)

Granted, he's in the AHL at the moment after PA. Would he be there when not coming out of PA and when not behind a deep WSH defense? I'm not so sure? You seem adamant given similar information.

 

[bossram]

The bigger issue was adding a guy like him to the defense corps we already had, especially after re-signing Tyler Myers.

Overpaid as a #6, really not a good #6 on a contending team, and deficient in the areas we were already deficient in. Just the wrong move to make and it was obvious the day he was signed.

Heinen is a good player, one of the guys I was hoping we'd go after and I agree he can do more with better linemates.

Yes, Heinen I have no issue with. But he is also one of My Guys.

I mean yeah, everybody mentioned this. They signed all trees on the blueline with minimal puck skills, and there are obvious deficiencies. I'm just saying I don't think VD is especially bad or anything.

 

[Hyzer]

Yes, Heinen I have no issue with. But he is also one of My Guys.

I mean yeah, everybody mentioned this. They signed all trees on the blueline with minimal puck skills, and there are obvious deficiencies. I'm just saying I don't think VD is especially bad or anything.

Yep.

That's why I laugh every time I see a poster calling to trade Heinan/Suter/Sherwood. These guys are positive value guys. They play above their salary. You do not trade guys who are playing better than their salary just because, its absolutely dumb.

Desharnais is fine as a 7th but for 2M? Not worth it. I thought Myers at 3m would be worth it too but hes kinda even worse than that rn, imo

 

[bossram]

Take your L? I didn't know you were dealing in real moves and had that kinda access to who and what GMs are willing to do?

I already laid one simple one out.

Add a value player in Suter to a team looking to make playoffs like Buffalo to be the 2C between Cozens and Benson (so Kulich at 20 can go back and develop in the AHL) while taking back a weaker but younger Krebs and their UFA D in Jokiharju. In doing so maybe we unload Heinen or Desharnais which helps towards next year

Blueger can go back to 3C and have Krebs Raty Amen at 4C. Jokiharju can move beside Hughes or Soucy temporarily and gives us a legit NHL RD with upside if he fits and we want to re sign him

Again, so your claim is that BUF is interested in rentals right now? Let's be clear. A non-playoff team is trading for a rental. This is the rationale of this proposed deal.

Look man, everyone disagrees with you. It's a bad take.

 

[DiggerDan]

Our PK has been below average to horrible since Rutherford's arrival. VD's best quality has been PK utility, so there's one box checked.

They seem to value size on the back end....another box checked

I think they probably felt there was some development potential as well considering the low GP # and that he was able to elevate his game at the AHL level relatively quickly - despite turning pro just in time for the pandemic - his numbers in 21/22 were really quite good. Although the jump to the NHL wasn't totally smooth, he got there. Fresh off of their success refining Myers' game, they probably got out too far over their ski's on this adventure. I wouldn't be surprised if his puck skills develop to a passable level in a slightly lower pressure environment (non playoff team), but he seems terrified to have the puck on his stick here.

I think this is a good take. While he's 28, his NHL career is still young and the upside of developing a large RHD with a low cap hit is quite valuable. He's been OK in my opinion, but not sold that he has a significant upside specific to providing the physical presence or passing ability someone like Zadorov does. I think that's what many were/are looking for.

 

[Jerry the great]

I think this is a good take. While he's 28, his NHL career is still young and the upside of developing a large RHD with a low cap hit is quite valuable. He's been OK in my opinion, but not sold that he has a significant upside specific to providing the physical presence or passing ability someone like Zadorov does. I think that's what many were/are looking for.

he's big but not too snarly. it wasn't a bad gamble, but i don't think they have the luxury of slow playing this hand. If they can move him along while upgrading the roster for this season (and ideally beyond), it would be great! It would be outstanding if they could trick the buffalo GM into taking Hoglander and Desharnais for Ulf's kid.

 

[sting101]

Again, so your claim is that BUF is interested in rentals right now? Let's be clear. A non-playoff team is trading for a rental. This is the rationale of this proposed deal.

Look man, everyone disagrees with you. It's a bad take.

Look man. You're not speaking for everyone.

The rationale is teams are looking for C's and Suter is riding a 22% sh rate at mostly C. He has value and would probably re sign in a situation where he gets to be a top6 C.

Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs in 14yrs you think they are just wanting to fold the tent at game 30? Detroit is using Marco Kasper at 2C and there are others...Nash Cgy NYI Pitt Utah Tor

You have to have an open mind and sell high sometimes. Nobody wants our bad players on bad contracts just as we don't want theirs. Suter is a value trade chip and being bold and creative at the right time is what nets good players

 

[Hodgy]

Agreed on Heinen. The totals would be higher if played higher in the lineup (or they kept him with Blueger/Sherwood), but otherwise he's doing what you'd expect.

I kinda find the discourse on Desharnais a bit off, IMO. He is certainly overpaid to be the #6. But as an NHL player, by my eye, he hasn't been that bad. He's been pretty serviceable when paired with Brannstrom, and less so when not. He's a solid PKer.

Of course, if he has to be a cap casualty to make an upgrade, no issue. I just don't think he's been "below NHL level".

I’m probably a bit bias because I never liked the signing and always thought he looked bad in Edmonton. But I really don’t like the idea of giving out two million dollar contracts to guys who are projects when you have any Stanley Cup aspirations. Makes more sense when your are a bottom third team, or if he’s making a million or less.

 

[VanillaCoke]

The bar here isn't high... We're talking about beating Desharnais, Juulsen and Friedman for a spot. Bear can do this. In fact, when here, Bear did beat out Juulsen in the rotation (who is playing ahead of Desharnais and Friedman this year)

Granted, he's in the AHL at the moment after PA. Would he be there when not coming out of PA and when not behind a deep WSH defense? I'm not so sure? You seem adamant given similar information.

No he can not do that, or he would've here, or anywhere else, sometime in the last few years.

Fact is all those guys are better players/assets than Ethan, who would be in the nhl if anyone thinks he's better than Dakota mermis, they do not.

Of course I'm adamant, this is reality. Idk what some ppl have seen that has impressed them so much about bear to be still thinking he's a good solution to something.

Every single franchise in his career has healthy scratched him repeatedly and consistently, waived him and he's not been able to play into even a seventh dman role as twenty seven year old... what is impressive for 2M?!?!

He couldn't make the vaunted oilers, let go after one season in Carolina in the best d system brindamour team that turned Chatfield into a mid pairing Dman, was promptly let go again here after 1 season, has been available for trade almost everywhere extensively and nobody interested, on waivers nobody interested, as a ufa very little interest ...

Like seriously what is the appeal?!
He's a great kid and story and his indigenous canucks jersey is goated, but he's not a good nhl player nor any sort of needle mover or solution to anything.

imo.

 

[credulous]

I think this is a good take. While he's 28, his NHL career is still young and the upside of developing a large RHD with a low cap hit is quite valuable. He's been OK in my opinion, but not sold that he has a significant upside specific to providing the physical presence or passing ability someone like Zadorov does. I think that's what many were/are looking for.

it's not like he started playing hockey at 25. he's 28 with minimal nhl experience because he isn't very good