Greatest dominance within one's own team

[Hippasus]

In the Polls subforum, Kariya vs. Bure was the topic and it came up that Bure has a points ratio of 2.49 vs. Kariya's 2.45 over number two on their respective teams. Whether statistical or otherwise, are there better examples of being a lone star on one's own team? I know Ovechkin's 07-08 is a more recent hard cap example (1.62). Pronger in Edmonton, 05-06, maybe?

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[The Panther]

Kind of depends what you mean by "dominance", right?

I assume you are looking at a team leading scorer's point total compared to the #2 scorer's point total as a ratio. Bure in 2000 often gets brought up here; I was not aware that Kariya (what season?) was similar in that regard.

In terms of point lead (raw points) over #2, it's surely Gretzky in 1982.

In terms of leading scorer's points being a percentage of the team's total goals, it's either Mario in '89 or McDavid in '21. I can't remember.

Probably other ways you could look at it.

 

[MXD]

In the Polls subforum, Kariya vs. Bure was the topic and it came up that Bure has a points ratio of 2.49 vs. Kariya's 2.45 over number two on their respective teams. Whether statistical or otherwise, are there better examples of being a lone star on one's own team? I know Ovechkin's 07-08 is a more recent hard cap example (1.62). Pronger in Edmonton, 05-06, maybe?

Well...
Joe Sakic (102) had a 1.64 ratio to Peter Stastny (62) in 89-90.
But Stastny didn'T finish the season in Quebec. Neither did the 3rd scorer (Goulet (45)).
The 4th scorer was Michel Petit (36), who did spend the whole season with the Nordiques, and against whom Sakic had an obscene production ratio of 2.83.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Controlling for injury ridden teams is always the tricky part.

 

[Jwads]

Thornton in 07-08 led the team in goals(29) and had more assists(67) than the second(24), third(23), and fourth(19) highest goal scorers had combined goals. Though Nabokov was also amazing that season.

And in regard to the above post, Marleau had mono in the off season and had a down year and Cheechoo was already dealing with injuries by this time, but other that the team was pretty healthy iirc.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lemieux. Scoring 199 points with bob errey and dan quinn as linemates is otherworldly

 

[Neutrinos]

Yzerman's '89 season
Gilmour and Turgeon in '93

Those are a few of the seasons that first come to mind

 

[Michael Farkas]

1982 Oilers:
1. Gretzky 212
2. Anderson 105

##

1925 Bruins
1. Herbert 23
2. Cooper 8
t-2. Jackson 8

 

[The Panther]

In the 1981, 1982, and 1983 seasons combined, Gretzky led the Oilers in scoring by 284 points, or an average of 95 points per season (by 105 in 1982).

In the 1988 and 1989 seasons combined, Lemieux got points on 55.1% of all Penguins goals and he was on the ice for 70% of all Pens' goals scored (this, despite missing 7 games).

 

[seventieslord]

A different way of looking at it is by the production a player was able to attain versus the production level of the players they had to play with.

matnor's collaboration scores (that only go up to 2013-14 show a lot of the usual suspects.

These scores are based on every data point where another player collaborated with the player on a goal during that season. So for example, if gretzky had 2.00 PPG and collaborated 100 times with anderson (1.25 PPG) and 50 times with Lumley (0.4 PPG) and 30 times with Pouzar (0.5 PPG), then the calculation is (1.25X100 + 0.4X50 + 0.5X30)/180 = an average of 0.88 PPG for Gretzky's collaborators, so his score is 2.00/0.88 = 2.27.

Player	Season	GP	Pts	Pts/Gp	Pts/Gp, collab	Ratio	Weighted
Wayne Gretzky	81/82	80​	212​	2.65	0.92	2.87	229.6​
Wayne Gretzky	80/81	80​	164​	2.05	0.72	2.83	226.4​
Pavel Bure	00/01	82​	92​	1.12	0.43	2.62	214.84​
Alex Ovechkin	05/06	81​	106​	1.31	0.50	2.63	213.03​
Jaromir Jagr	98/99	81​	127​	1.57	0.60	2.59	209.79​
Joe Sakic	90/91	80​	109​	1.36	0.54	2.54	203.2​
Mario Lemieux	87/88	77​	168​	2.18	0.83	2.63	202.51​
Marcel Dionne	76/77	80​	120​	1.50	0.60	2.49	199.2​
Wayne Gretzky	82/83	80​	196​	2.45	0.99	2.47	197.6​
Mario Lemieux	85/86	79​	139​	1.76	0.71	2.49	196.71​
Joe Thornton	07/08	82​	96​	1.17	0.49	2.37	194.34​
Steve Yzerman	88/89	80​	155​	1.94	0.80	2.42	193.6​
Wayne Gretzky	86/87	79​	183​	2.32	0.95	2.45	193.55​
Paul Kariya	95/96	82​	108​	1.32	0.56	2.36	193.52​
Mario Lemieux	88/89	76​	199​	2.62	1.04	2.51	190.76​
Doug Gilmour	92/93	83​	127​	1.53	0.67	2.28	189.24​
Miroslav Satan	02/03	79​	75​	0.95	0.40	2.38	188.02​
Alex Ovechkin	07/08	82​	112​	1.37	0.60	2.29	187.78​
Steve Yzerman	90/91	80​	108​	1.35	0.58	2.32	185.6​
Pavel Bure	93/94	76​	107​	1.41	0.58	2.44	185.44​
Wayne Gretzky	89/90	73​	142​	1.95	0.77	2.54	185.42​
Bobby Clarke	71/72	78​	81​	1.04	0.44	2.37	184.86​
Wayne Gretzky	90/91	78​	163​	2.09	0.88	2.37	184.86​
Alexei Yashin	98/99	82​	94​	1.15	0.51	2.24	183.68​
Steve Yzerman	89/90	79​	127​	1.61	0.69	2.32	183.28​
Wayne Gretzky	93/94	81​	130​	1.60	0.71	2.26	183.06​
Sidney Crosby	09/10	81​	109​	1.35	0.60	2.25	182.25​
Jeremy Roenick	93/94	84​	107​	1.27	0.59	2.16	181.44​
Ilya Kovalchuk	07/08	79​	87​	1.10	0.48	2.28	180.12​
Joe Sakic	89/90	80​	102​	1.27	0.57	2.25	180​

Best seasons on a per-game basis that don't make the above list:

- Crosby 2010-11
- Lemieux 1986-87
- Jagr 1999-00
- Gretzky 1987-88
- Lemieux 1992-93
- Havlat 2006-07
- Mikita 1972-73
- Lemieux 1989-90

 

[MadLuke]

2 that came to mind, but that was mostly a feeling an impression when Mtl faced them, so not that big of a sample size (they were not playoff teams)

By the end of his pre Canucks days in florida some of those Luongo season felt a lot of him, I remember them not playing Luongo in third periods of game they felt were out of reach just so he could start more games some year, that team was built and felt dominated by his presence with everything in term of possible success over his shoulder.

Chara first bruins season, he played 700 more minutes than any others D.

They were not terrible in term of non-playoff teams goes even with impressive names for forwards (Savard, Bergeron-Kessel, etc...)

But the D was a rotating mess that year (again maybe bruins fans did not felt that way, very over the surface 5-6 games sample type, probably tainted by the broadcast talk during those game)
after Chara by minutes played:

Alberts
Mara
Stuart
York
Ference
Jurcina
Alkle
Ward

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There perfeclty fine names for second-bottom pair players (Stuart-Ferrence, Wideman, etc...), but they did not play most game that season, Alberts-Mara ended up playing a lot.

Felt almost as if those Bruins had a freeze the puck and stop the play as much they could so Chara can breath and play the most as possible minutes strategy. A towering and indispensable presence, but being 6foot9 will tend to do that.

I was too young to really appreciate it, but some of Bourque playoff run look they could have a bit of that going on.

First season Ovechkin, Bure by the ends of the Panthers were 2 others coming to mind outside the Mario/Wayne early years.

 

[The Panther]

The "Bure with Panthers" period gets a lot of attention for team dominance, and it is notable for sure.

But... on the other hand, basically any combination of (a) elite scorer in prime and (b) low-scoring DPE-team is going to result in huge team-scoring dominance. Like, there were a lot of bad teams in the 1970s, but there were usually one or two guys who could score 65-80 points. Whereas in the c.1998-to-2004 period (and I guess also c.2011 to 2017), there were pathetic team scoring leaders, sometimes even on good-ish teams. Throw a Pavel Bure onto any of those clubs and it's going to result in team-dominance.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Gretzky and Lemieux benefited from phantom assists

 

[The Panther]

Gretzky and Lemieux benefited from phantom assists

Can you explain how this affected Gretzky and Lemieux and not every other player?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Also, can we point them out on the copious amount of video we have for both of them...?

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Also, can we point them out on the copious amount of video we have for both of them...?

The videos have been doctored

 

[Professor What]

The videos have been doctored

The moon landing was faked!

 

[The Panther]

The videos have been doctored

Magic puck theory.

"Back... and to the left of Mario... Back... and to the left."

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

roy in the pat burns years and hasek when muckler was coaching buffalo had bonkers separation from their backups in both averaging stats and win%. usually, especially when you have a defensive coach, you get backups putting up decently similar numbers due to easier matchups but not in those cases.

1989

Rk	Player	Age	GP	GS	W	L	T/O	GA	SA	SV	SV%	GAA	SO
1	Patrick Roy*	23	48		33	5	6	113	1226	1113	.908	2.47	4
2	Brian Hayward	28	36		20	13	3	101	892	791	.887	2.90	1
3	Randy Exelby	23	1		0	0	0	0	1	1	1.000	0.00	0

1990

Rk	Player	Age	GP	GS	W	L	T/O	GA	SA	SV	SV%	GAA	SO
1	Patrick Roy*	24	54		31	16	5	134	1522	1388	.912	2.53	3
2	Brian Hayward	29	29		10	12	6	94	769	675	.878	3.37	1
3	André Racicot	20	1		0	0	0	3	6	3	.500	14.21	0

1991

Rk	Player	Age	GP	GS	W	L	T/O	GA	SA	SV	SV%	GAA	SO
1	Patrick Roy*	25	48		25	15	6	128	1362	1234	.906	2.71	1
2	Jean-Claude Bergeron	22	18		7	6	2	59	426	367	.862	3.76	0
3	André Racicot	21	21		7	9	2	52	479	427	.891	3.20	1
4	Frédéric Chabot	22	3		0	0	1	6	45	39	.867	3.32	0

1992

Rk	Player	Age	GP	GS	W	L	T/O	GA	SA	SV	SV%	GAA	SO
1	Patrick Roy*	26	67		36	22	8	155	1806	1651	.914	2.36	5
2	Roland Melanson	31	9		5	3	0	22	195	173	.887	2.68	2
3	André Racicot	22	9		0	3	3	23	219	196	.895	3.16	0

1994

Rk	Player	Age	GP	GS	W	L	T/O	GA	SA	SV	SV%	GAA	SO
1	Dominik Hašek*	29	58		30	20	6	109	1552	1443	.930	1.95	7
2	Grant Fuhr*	31	32		13	12	3	106	907	801	.883	3.69	2

1995

			Goal	Goal	Goal	Goal	Goal	Goal	Goal	Goal	Goal	Goal	Goal
Rk	Player	Age	GP	GS	W	L	T/O	GA	SA	SV	SV%	GAA	SO
1	Dominik Hašek*	30	41		19	14	7	85	1221	1136	.930	2.11	5
2	Robb Stauber	27	6		2	3	0	20	150	130	.867	3.79	0
3	Grant Fuhr*	32	3		1	2	0	12	85	73	.859	4.00	0

 

[hypereconomist]

Selanne didn't hit the 2x points multiplier over the second highest scorer, but he was a literal one-man show in 97-98.

Other's have mentioned Thornton's 07-08 season and Ovechkin's 05-06 season. Iginla's 03-04 season was just like Thornton's 07-08 season where he carried the entire offense with some equally incredible goaltending support carrying the back-end.

Giroux's 11-12 season, B. Richards' 09-10 season, Nilsson's 80-81 season, and Hawerchuk's 87-88 season weren't quite as impressive; but all had dominating seasons in relation to the rest of their team, with involvement in a significant portion of their team's goals for.

Kind of depends what you mean by "dominance", right?

I assume you are looking at a team leading scorer's point total compared to the #2 scorer's point total as a ratio. Bure in 2000 often gets brought up here; I was not aware that Kariya (what season?) was similar in that regard.

In terms of point lead (raw points) over #2, it's surely Gretzky in 1982.

In terms of leading scorer's points being a percentage of the team's total goals, it's either Mario in '89 or McDavid in '21. I can't remember.

Probably other ways you could look at it.

RE: bolded text. I recall @pnep having a good table on that from a long time ago...maybe a decade ago or a bit older than that if he could possibly grace us with the same table or an updated version.