Greatest captain ever (ever)?

[sr edler]

It’s all based on opinion. Make a thread and let the debate begin, watch how many other players are voted on, it’ll be endless.

Who was the greatest captain ever?

We go by Lady Byng criteria here, so greatest amount of 'captaincy' combined with actual on ice contribution/presence.

I'm a history buff but way back in the old days they changed captain so often it's hard to keep track of that many acts of consistent captaincies, but I did try to dig up a few off the top of my head.

International hockey and all non-NHL hockey is counted for in this exercise.

If I forgot someone obvious (I'm sure it happened) please bring that name/player up to discussion, that's the whole point of this thread (discussion).

Click to read more...

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

With all what you said, it's clearly Jean Béliveau. The "International hockey" part is unfair to him because he clearly didn't have the chance to participate at any International events in his playing days. But he still was named an honorary captain of the men's national team for the 2010 Winter Olympics. It clearly shows the respect the NHL and the hockey world in general have for him.

He also twice declined Canadian Prime Minister’s offer of a Senate appointement or the post of Governor General of Canada. He was made a Companion of the Order of Canada, then the country's highest civilian award. And he was honoured with his portrait on a Canadian postage stamp. Yep Jean Béliveau was the classiest and greatest captain ever. He IS the standard of what a really great captain must be.

 

[The Panther]

I mean, it's a fun topic but how can we -- as fans -- possibly know anything accurate about this?

We'd be basing our answers on 10th-generation hearsay and demeanor captured in televised interviews.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I have Eddie Gerard at #2 or #3 all-time and he's not even in the poll.

By every standards Gerard was an outstanding captain and leader of men.He left a winning culture even after his departure through the players he mentored (George Boucher and King Clancy in particular).Was a successful coach after his playing career, and even had a stint where he was player-coach for Ottawa when he played.He was widely considered the pride of New Edinburgh, a pillar of the community and was respected by everyone.Clean but tough player.

Captained his team to three Stanley Cup championships in four years, becoming the first captain of a dynasty in the NHL era with the Ottawa Senators.

Jean Beliveau would be my #1, for basically all the same reasons except he did it for longer.

 

[sr edler]

I have Eddie Gerard at #2 or #3 all-time and he's not even in the poll.

I made the poll on the fly and thought about the late Ottawa dynasty but for some reason didn't think about Gerard. I thought "it wasn't Nighbor, so perhaps it was Boucher...", then I had to move outside.

By every standards Gerard was an outstanding captain and leader of men.

Could he lead women though? That's the big question mark here.

 

[Bexlyspeed]

I Absolutely love Denis Potvin, my favorite Islanders of all time. but when you think captain in Hockey its Jean Beliveau and Denis would agree

 

[VanIslander]

30 candidates for greatest hockey captain ever ever,... and no TED LINDSAY?

• The MVP of the Detroit dynasty;
• The first player to hoist the cup in celebration and skate around with it;
• The organizer of a NHLPA that owners resisted by stripping him of his captaincy and trading him.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

• The organizer of a NHLPA that owners resisted by stripping him of his captaincy and trading him.

I thought it was Doug Harvey but it was him and Lindsay. Wow I didn't know it. That's great.

 

[Vujtek]

Some funny options in the poll and a long list of names but Sidney Crosby is nowhere to be found? C'mon.

- Youngest captain to hoist the Stanley Cup.
- Three Stanley Cups as a captain.
- Has captained Canada to Olympic Gold, World Championship and World Cup win.
- Already one of the longest serving captains ever in the NHL and will only climb up in that list.

I'm not saying Crosby's the greatest ever but there's definitely no doubt he belongs into that discussion. Crosby has achieved everything imaginable as a captain.

Scott Stevens is another all-time great captain that is missing from the list. Captained two different teams, captained Devils to three Cup wins and is one of longest serving captains ever in the NHL.

 

[blood gin]

Where's Scott Stevens? Won a Smythe as captain as well

 

[Pominville Knows]

And where am I? I was captain for a season and a half plus for two months in 08.

 

[tony d]

I went with Jean Beliveau.

 

[brachyrynchos]

I always felt Dirk Graham was a great Captain. His teammates always spoke well of him, a really good locker room guy who gave it his all on the ice. He kinda epitomizes what a player and captain should be...he wouldn't hesitate to drop the gloves with heavyweights and had the backs of his fellow Blackhawks, defensively sound (Selke winner), helped out offensively, and whether up by a goal or down one he would be out there. Still oneof my favorite players.
Potvin was fantastic, and as a rookie helped the Isles allow 100 fewer goals from their inaugural season. High compete level.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I agree that Scott Stevens should be here over a few names...not that he's the greatest ever, but he certainly belongs here...I don't know how much of it is public and maybe that's the issue...but Stevens was one hell of a leader in NJ...

 

[BenchBrawl]

I made the poll on the fly and thought about the late Ottawa dynasty but for some reason didn't think about Gerard. I thought "it wasn't Nighbor, so perhaps it was Boucher...", then I had to move outside.



Could he lead women though? That's the big question mark here.

Gerard was captain, not sure which year it started - around 1917-1919.Boucher was captain for the 1927 cup only; Gerard in 1920, 1921 and 1923.

Gerard was a humble religious man.He had a wife and two daughters.

 

[Passchendaele]

Some funny options in the poll and a long list of names but Sidney Crosby is nowhere to be found? C'mon.

- Youngest captain to hoist the Stanley Cup.
- Three Stanley Cups as a captain.
- Has captained Canada to Olympic Gold, World Championship and World Cup win.
- Already one of the longest serving captains ever in the NHL and will only climb up in that list.

I'm not saying Crosby's the greatest ever but there's definitely no doubt he belongs into that discussion. Crosby has achieved everything imaginable as a captain.

Being captain of a team doesn't make you a great leader by default. I mean Yashin was once captain of the Senators.

People should stop putting too much stock into Team Canada wins.. I mean ffs, Canada always ices the best roster year in, year out.

Crosby was one hell of a whiner in his day too. Doesn't sound like a perfect captain.

 

[GMR]

How do you measure whether Beliveau was a better captain than Messier or Yzerman? Were there many players or fans who spent time in all these locker rooms? I can probably say that Alexei Yashin wasn't as good a captain as these guys, but I'm not sure what gives me the right to say more.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Here's an attempt at my Top 7:

1.Beliveau
2.Gerard
3.Clarke
4.Messier
5.Toews
6.Abel
7.Armstrong

Then many guys like Yzerman, Potvin, Stevens and so on.

This doesn't take into considerations great leaders that weren't captain for X or Y reasons, like Bryan Trottier and Doug Harvey for exemple.

Should elaborate on Toews since he's the only active player: Difference between him and his contemporaries is that his leadership was clear from the get go; natural-born leader in a way that say Crosby is not.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Guys/Gals, What did the nickname/phrase (or perhaps simply a French translation) "Le Gross Bill" mean for Beliveau? (I might have the spelling off on that nickname/phrase). I seen this nickname/phrase before but didn't know if it had a cool/interesting story of how it came to fruition?

 

[Vujtek]

Being captain of a team doesn't make you a great leader by default. I mean Yashin was once captain of the Senators.

People should stop putting too much stock into Team Canada wins.. I mean ffs, Canada always ices the best roster year in, year out.

Crosby was one hell of a whiner in his day too. Doesn't sound like a perfect captain.

The OP specifically said that 'International hockey and all non-NHL hockey is counted for in this exercise'. So why should we not put stock in Crosby's international achievements as a captain? Because he's Canadian? I mean sure Canada always wins, like they did in 1996 World Cup, 1998 Olympics, 2006 Olympics... Oh wait, what's that you say? They didn't win those tournaments? That's weird. Somehow I was under the impression it's a given since as you 'Canada always ices the best roster year in, year out'.

Crosby's been nothing but an exemplary leader for the Penguins and an exemplary teammate throughout his years. You don't hear a former teammate of him saying a bad word about him. You can call him a whiner all day long if you want but doesn't in any way put a dent in his leadership. Steve Yzerman was one of the biggest whiners in his early days and he's been long rightfully revered as one of the best captains ever.

 

[The Panther]

Crosby's been nothing but an exemplary leader for the Penguins and an exemplary teammate throughout his years.

I disagree with this. Crosby seems like a mature, consistent "leader" (whatever that means) nowadays and in recent years, yes. But before that? I recall the Pens' black playoff period of c.2010 to 2012 where Crosby was shooting the pucks at other players after whistles and saying rather petulant stuff to the media, like, "I just don't like that guy", etc. I mean, it wasn't very becoming of a captain.

Now, in fairness, maybe if the media had hounded Jean Beliveau as much as today's stars back in the 50s/60s, we'd have more sound bites like that from those earlier players. Nevertheless, I don't recall Gretzky as captain or Trottier as captain having childish sulks in front of the media in the playoffs.

(Also, I don't recall Steve Yzerman being a 'whiner' in his early days... what's that about?)

 

[Vujtek]

I disagree with this. Crosby seems like a mature, consistent "leader" (whatever that means) nowadays and in recent years, yes. But before that? I recall the Pens' black playoff period of c.2010 to 2012 where Crosby was shooting the pucks at other players after whistles and saying rather petulant stuff to the media, like, "I just don't like that guy", etc. I mean, it wasn't very becoming of a captain.

Now, in fairness, maybe if the media had hounded Jean Beliveau as much as today's stars back in the 50s/60s, we'd have more sound bites like that from those earlier players. Nevertheless, I don't recall Gretzky as captain or Trottier as captain having childish sulks in front of the media in the playoffs.

(Also, I don't recall Steve Yzerman being a 'whiner' in his early days... what's that about?)

I have never heard or seen Crosby's shooting pucks at other players. If it happened, surely people would have made a big deal about it like all things Crosby related? Only things from those years that are used against Crosby is when he pushed Voracek's glove on the ice as he was about to pick it up and that comment to media prior to Flyers series. Wouldn't you say Crosby's been doing one hell of a job when after 13 years and dealing with media like no player before him, the only comment you can point as being out of place is when prior to a series against their biggest rivals he said 'he doesn't like any player on that team'. I mean how dare he?

Look up Paul Stewarts's comment on Steve Yzerman and there's also been lots of fans echoing his sentiment towards Yzerman.

Here are those Stewarts comments: HockeyBuzz.com - Paul Stewart - Stevie Why? The Unity Among Officials Blog

 

[The Panther]

I have never heard or seen Crosby's shooting pucks at other players. If it happened, surely people would have made a big deal about it like all things Crosby related? Only things from those years that are used against Crosby is when he pushed Voracek's glove on the ice as he was about to pick it up and that comment to media prior to Flyers series.

Sorry, you're right -- he fired the glove, not a puck.

Wouldn't you say Crosby's been doing one hell of a job when after 13 years and dealing with media like no player before him, the only comment you can point as being out of place is when prior to a series against their biggest rivals he said 'he doesn't like any player on that team'. I mean how dare he?

Yes, Crosby has been great overall, I think. But the issue is whether or not he's one of the greatest captains ever. My point would be: It's easy to look good when the team is winning, but you also have to look composed when the team is losing.

Look up Paul Stewarts's comment on Steve Yzerman and there's also been lots of fans echoing his sentiment towards Yzerman.

Here are those Stewarts comments: HockeyBuzz.com - Paul Stewart - Stevie Why? The Unity Among Officials Blog

Thanks for that. It's interesting to read, though it's the thoughts of one official. Is this supported by any other officials? And who are these "lots of fans" you refer to?

(My impression of the 80s was that the most hated player on the part of officials was Dale Hawerchuk!)

 

[Vujtek]

Yes, Crosby has been great overall, I think. But the issue is whether or not he's one of the greatest captains ever. My point would be: It's easy to look good when the team is winning, but you also have to look composed when the team is losing.

Fair point. Though sometimes good leadership is losing one's composure and trying to do something to spark his team when they're down. Leadership comes in many forms.

Thanks for that. It's interesting to read, though it's the thoughts of one official. Is this supported by any other officials? And who are these "lots of fans" you refer to?

People on message boards like this and people I've spoken to. I'm not going to go back and search those comments so you don't have to believe me. And obviously those comments aren't that plentiful (compared to people calling Crosby whiner for example) for obvious reasons (no message boards, twitter etc. on Yzerman's playing days)...

As for do other officials support that sentiment? We'll I couldn't know. There are very few former officials that have ever commented on these issues about any player. So yes, it's only a one mans opinion, but a man who actually interacted with Yzerman and isn't Stewart pretty highly respected for a referee? Anyways take his opinion as you will.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yes, Stew is well respected. Still works with finding and developing officials. Great guy to get a beer with too, tells some great stories...

Kerry Fraser also felt similarly about Yzerman on the ice...respected him, says he's nice off the ice, but was always feuding angrily with someone on the ice or giving death stares and what have you...early on, it was more the officials...later into the 90s, it was Bowman...