GDT: Gravy Boat Armada (sens) vs Islanders, 5:00PM EST, TSN5

[Relapsing]

The only criticism warranted is to Forsberg,

Im pretty sure criticizing someone got calling people here antibfans is warranted too.

Playing well and Winning are very different things. We see atheletss all the time that have it all and do lots of good things but stumble at key times and they always end up in silver or bronze positions.

That feels like Ottawa right now. Great routine, all the jumps are there but they can’t land the triple axle.

Yup. Some seem to think mistakes are a binary thing. You either make them and lose, or don't and win.

Hardly.

Mistakes can be recovered from. We make those kinds of mistakes as a team all the time. All teams do. The mistakes that hurt are the ones that end up in the back of your net and result in a loss.

The only people I see claiming we need to be perfect to win are the ones arguing against being critical.

 

[LiseL]

He didn’t blame the goaltending directly but it was basically implied.

He said that was the best game they’ve played since Boston or Toronto, 95% of the time you win that game, said 8 shots against 5v5, 2 shots in the third period. Refused to nitpick anything because they played a great game. At most he acknowledged PK has to be better and they probably could have scored more but “easier said than done”. Then he told Bruce off for continuing to ask with the expectation that he critiques their game.

I give the team credit for trying to insulate Forsberg as much as possible by limiting the # of shots, still to no avail. Wonder if he's similar to Ullmark, needs to face enough shots to get in a groove. Who knows? However, PK does have some issues that need to be addressed.

 

[LiseL]

Like the Philly game. Absolute domination. Bad goaltending and terrible PK

I just hope they don’t go in a tailspin like they did after Philly…

Personally, I think they'll be OK when Ullmark's in net as he has played well lately so that gives them confidence. But I wouldn't count on it when Forsberg is back in net for the next B2B. I hope Green puts Forsberg against Carolina as no guarantees Ullmark wins them that one (he's never beaten that team). Let him play the Penguins game instead. Also, they're at home for Pitt, on the road for Carolina.

 

[LiseL]

Sens dominated and lost
without review;
1st NYI goal Sanderson lost his man in front ; ended up facing the wrong way
2nd NYI goal Jensen lost his man in front had him and inexplicably let him go
3rd NYI goal Jensen out of position ; Forsberg beaten clean

the 1st two were low shots , rebounds , goals; man in front not tied up


I liked the way the Sens played and with an early turn around there was n way to start Ullmark

Sens have to get up and play hard in the next one

Surprising that Jensen was on the ice for 2 of those goals. He's usually so on point in the D zone. I guess even he can have an off game.

 

[Mr Hat]

Looks like a myriad of issues to me.

Secondary goal scoring is an issue:

• Pinto 1
• Sanderson 1
• Grieg 2
• Amadio 2
• Gregor 2
• Cousins 3

GA/GP is 9th worst (tied with 1 other team)

GF/GP is mid pack at 15th overall (tied with 1 other team)

PK% is 25th overall.

Goalies save percentage is: Ullmark 27th overall, Forsberg 49th overall.

I don’t have a way of attributing losses to one single player, but if you have a way of quantifying this, you could let us know. And, you can’t waive Hamonic as he has a No Movement Clause.

I know we can’t waive Hamonic, but he can sit in the press box a few nights after giving away points. We can waive the rest of the players I mentioned. I think if we waved at least one, and benched Hamonic and company when they play AHL level hockey it sends the message our culture needs. Help us win consistently or take a seat.

 

[LiseL]

No, we haven't played well during the losing streak (starting after the Carolina loss).

But last night, they played very well, back to the form they were in prior to the losing streak, where they had 5-6 games in a row of excellent play. Now they've had 3 in a row where they played very well and won 2 out of 3. If they keep up this level of play, like they did back then, things are looking good.

They actually played better last night than the Preds game where they allowed 38 shots on net, kept Ullmark on his toes.

However, I've noticed that when a team allows very few shots, the goalies aren't very good. This was true for Ullmark earlier in the season (can't remember the opponent), SJS goalie when the Sens only got 14 shots, and again last night. It seems many goalies have a hard time when they don't get enough action.

If that was the issue with Forsberg last night, he should be decent this weekend against either Carolina/Penguins as he will definitely face more shots.

 

[Big Muddy]

I know we can’t waive Hamonic, but he can sit in the press box a few nights after giving away points. We can waive the rest of the players I mentioned. I think if we waved at least one, and benched Hamonic and company when they play AHL level hockey it sends the message our culture needs. Help us win consistently or take a seat.

I don’t mind the benching, but just hope we have a decent and/or better replacement. I guess it would be Guenette or maybe Matinpalo that would be the callups.

 

[LiseL]

Looks like a myriad of issues to me.

Secondary goal scoring is an issue:

• Pinto 1
• Sanderson 1
• Grieg 2
• Amadio 2
• Gregor 2
• Cousins 3

GA/GP is 9th worst (tied with 1 other team)

GF/GP is mid pack at 15th overall (tied with 1 other team)

PK% is 25th overall.

Goalies save percentage is: Ullmark 27th overall, Forsberg 49th overall.

I don’t have a way of attributing losses to one single player, but if you have a way of quantifying this, you could let us know. And, you can’t waive Hamonic as he has a No Movement Clause.

Greig, Cousins & Gregor all make < $1M and all 3 were out with injuries for a period of time. I don't think their production is that bad.

I agree with Pinto/Amadio from the F group and Sandy/Chabot should be producing more goals seeing as they both play on the PP.

Speaking of the PP, it would be nice if the current 1st line scored more 5v5, 50% of their goal production is on PP1.

 

[Big Muddy]

Greig, Cousins & Gregor all make < $1M and all 3 were out with injuries for a period of time. I don't think their production is that bad.

I agree with Pinto/Amadio from the F group and Sandy/Chabot should be producing more goals seeing as they both play on the PP.

Speaking of the PP, it would be nice if the current 1st line scored more 5v5, 50% of their goal production is on PP1.

Yes, 5v5 is another issue.

I’d think bottom 6 players generally don’t have big salaries, and 1 of those 3 is an ELC. So, maybe that’s more to be expected & additional perspective. If you followed this conversation, you could also say that our bottom pairing defenders aren’t paid a lot either, but that doesn’t get mentioned.

There were other points in the post as well.

 

[WallyD]

Surprising that Jensen was on the ice for 2 of those goals. He's usually so on point in the D zone. I guess even he can have an off game.

Yes, as a D he is frequently find himself there, totally on point! All kidding aside, I know exactly what you meant and totally agree with you. Jensen has been among the least of the Sens worries this year. He is a very pleasant surprise having strongly (imo) contributed to Chabot's significant improvement this year.

That's the thing... when a solid player has an occasional poor game, a brain fart or just bad luck, most fans may observe and comment on it, but they generally slough it off as rare. On the other hand, when certain players constantly screw up, make the same mistakes or demonstrate their inability, fans have every right to go to town on that player.

 

[WallyD]

I don’t mind the benching, but just hope we have a decent and/or better replacement. I guess it would be Guenette or maybe Matinpalo that would be the callups.

Feel bad for Matinpalo not having seeing any NHL play the entire time (couple games?) when we was recently called up. I would have like to see him play.

 

[LiseL]

Yes, 5v5 is another issue.

I’d think bottom 6 players generally don’t have big salaries, and 1 of those 3 is an ELC. So, maybe that’s more to be expected & additional perspective. If you followed this conversation, you could also say that our bottom pairing defenders aren’t paid a lot either, but that doesn’t get mentioned.

There were other points in the post as well.

I only mentioned the points I wanted to add my 2 cents worth to. I agreed with your post for the most part.

For me, the biggest issues re: production are the 3rd line, not enough 5v5 production from many of the highest paid F and Sandy. I don't expect much from Hamonic, Zub's been out too much, JBD/Kleven need to focus on defense, not offense, and Chabot/Jensen have decent # of apples 5v5.

The biggest revelation is Sandy. I thought he'd be a stud defenseman, the type of player that would make those around him better. But seeing his play this year, he's not that (yet). If Sandy wasn't on PP1, his production would be dismal.

Does he need a solid partner to play well? If yes, then doesn't that make him like Chabot? Are either of them worth their salary if their play is so so unless they're paired with a solid D man? Jensen makes a little more than half their salary yet only has 1 less assist 5v5 than Chabot and 7 more than Sandy. Sandy and Chabot need to produce for the salary they're getting, otherwise I'd take two more Jensen's at half the cost to replace them both.

 

[Big Muddy]

Feel bad for Matinpalo not having seeing any NHL play the entire time (couple games?) when we was recently called up. I would have like to see him play.

Yes, not a large body of work for Matinpalo & Guenette. Hence, kind of hard to judge. At lot of hope will be on Yakemchuk as far as improving our blueline whenever that happens.

 

[Big Muddy]

I only mentioned the points I wanted to add my 2 cents worth to. I agreed with your post for the most part.

For me, the biggest issues re: production are the 3rd line, not enough 5v5 production from many of the highest paid F and Sandy. I don't expect much from Hamonic, Zub's been out too much, JBD/Kleven need to focus on defense, not offense, and Chabot/Jensen have decent # of apples 5v5.

The biggest revelation is Sandy. I thought he'd be a stud defenseman, the type of player that would make those around him better. But seeing his play this year, he's not that (yet). If Sandy wasn't on PP1, his production would be dismal.

Does he need a solid partner to play well? If yes, then doesn't that make him like Chabot? Are either of them worth their salary if their play is so so unless they're paired with a solid D man? Jensen makes a little more than half their salary yet only has 1 less assist 5v5 than Chabot and 7 more than Sandy. Sandy and Chabot need to produce for the salary they're getting, otherwise I'd take two more Jensen's at half the cost to replace them both.

That’s cool.

Sandy has gone backwards this year. Hopefully he will figure things out because he seemed to be so solid in his first 2 years. I think a solid partner would help. Zub has missed so many games this year, so he’s not been a steady partner.

 

[UglyPuckling]

there are probably

well right now we score as many goals per game as the oilers. I don’t dig deep. But we average 3.04 goals per game. Good for 12th in the NHL.

Coupled with the fact we don’t give up much in terms of scoring chances. Ullmark just needs to play well.

Most goalies in the NHL stop “nearly everything” so yeah that’s what I expect from Ullmark as long as we continue to play strong defence.

Last night forsberg should have stopped everything.

Oilers beat us 5 - 2, so if you are trying to compare us to them, you’d probably want to consider that.

Think I checked the GF/GP just yesterday. We were tied for 15th, so that’s mid pack.

We are 22nd overall (tied with 1 other team), or 9th worst in GA/GP. That is not strong defense.

Lots of good teams with good goalies let in some bad goals. The thing that differentiates them is that they respond to different situations and overcome those obstacles. I’ve seen Bobrovsky let in some softies, but Florida provided some goal support, scored some more goals and won the game. That is just one example.

Senators are a team that aspires to be a team with a.500 record, but often enough dips below that rather mediocre grade. You are what your record says you are. Hopefully we start winning a lot more and have some success. Time will tell.

 

[DylanSensFan]

I haven’t changed my tune. My tune has been the same all night.

What about their play would you change. No one had an answer to this question lol.

What about their play from last night would you change.

What about their play does not meet your hockey standards. Excluding the goaltending of course which was awful and is what sunk them.


We didn’t look lazy at all. We smothered the islanders and gave them nothing. The islanders had very little room to operate and our forwards beat their Defence on like 80% of the forechecks.

What would I change? I would make their PK more aggressive to clean up those wide open shots. I would have also played Ullmark. Otherwise you're right, they played well.

 

[Micklebot]

What would I change? I would make their PK more aggressive to clean up those wide open shots. I would have also played Ullmark. Otherwise you're right, they played well.

Oddly, on the game winning goal on the pk we were aggressive, the forwards pressured the puck making them rush the D to D pass, and Jensen got aggressive when that pass was mishandled, but they recovered and Jensen had to rush back, got turned around trying to decide who to cover and it opened up the lane.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Oilers beat us 5 - 2, so if you are trying to compare us to them, you’d probably want to consider that.

Think I checked the GF/GP just yesterday. We were tied for 15th, so that’s mid pack.

We are 22nd overall (tied with 1 other team), or 9th worst in GA/GP. That is not strong defense.

Lots of good teams with good goalies let in some bad goals. The thing that differentiates them is that they respond to different situations and overcome those obstacles. I’ve seen Bobrovsky let in some softies, but Florida provided some goal support, scored some more goals and won the game. That is just one example.

Senators are a team that aspires to be a team with a.500 record, but often enough dips below that rather mediocre grade. You are what your record says you are. Hopefully we start winning a lot more and have some success. Time will tell.

My argument is our defense has been fine and our goalies have been shit and you pointed out Goals against. So..thanks?
if you watch the games (not saying you don’t) you can see GA doesn’t tell the whole story. If the other team scores 3 soft floaters from the blue line, are you complaining about the defence?

What does losing to the oilers 5-2 have to do with anything.

I just said our goals per game is about the same as there’s.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

What would I change? I would make their PK more aggressive to clean up those wide open shots. I would have also played Ullmark. Otherwise you're right, they played well.

1 wide open shot. Which was entirely saveable. In fact islanders gave us dozens of wide open shots. They’re goalies all but 2.

Shots and scoring chances will happen. Fact of life. If you’re goalie can’t save MOST of the scoring chances against AND pretty much all the non scoring chances against, you don’t stand a chance

 

[Big Muddy]

oops wrong thread.

 

[UglyPuckling]

My argument is our defense has been fine and our goalies have been shit and you pointed out Goals against. So..thanks?
if you watch the games (not saying you don’t) you can see GA doesn’t tell the whole story. If the other team scores 3 soft floaters from the blue line, are you complaining about the defence?

What does losing to the oilers 5-2 have to do with anything.

I just said our goals per game is about the same as there’s.

My post contained several stats (not just GA/GP) which in aggregate reveal we are not a very good team as you claim repeatedly.

Here’s a few more stats which are copied from another poster. For somebody who posts as much as you do (44,864 posts), its odd how you can be so oblivious to this info.

Secondary goal scoring is an issue:

• Pinto 1
• Sanderson 1
• Grieg 2
• Amadio 2
• Gregor 2
• Cousins 3

GA/GP is 9th worst (tied with 1 other team)

GF/GP is mid pack at 15th overall (tied with 1 other team)

PK% is 25th overall.

5v5 scoring is 27th overall (6th worst).

8th worst team based on point %.

You brought up the comparison with the Oilers, not me. I mentioned that they beat us in head-to-head action. That seems rather relevant to me, and oddly, so does the NHL which bases everything on Wins/Losses.

As our 5v5 scoring is 27th overall (6th worst league wide), I guess Ullmark & Forsberg are going to have score more goals as they are the root of all of our problems according to you LOL.

We are the 8th worst team based on point % (again, I copied this from another post), so it sure looks like there’s room improvement in many areas (not just one). There’s still many games to be played yet, so we’ll see what happens & we hope for the best.

Anyhow, I’m done with this discussion.