Confirmed with Link: Granlund + Ceci to Dallas for 2025 1st and 2025 conditional 4th (WPG)

[Grinner]

I guess, but i dont see people saying that about Celebrini, or anyone who isn't a proven winner. I see them saying intangible things that are backed by his play, like he's a 200ft player, is strong on the puck for his size, has elite skating, etc. Your Benson attributes are accurate, but it seems premature to assign a "guy you win with" tag on him. You say that about a guy like M Tkachuk, who has those attributes and actually is a proven winner at every level. Similarly, all those attributes also describe Jumbo, who you would never add a winner tag to.

I don't think negatively about Benson, my point, and why i asked this question, is that I am super cautious of former Sabres property, especially career Sabres, and am unsure why people are quick to give career Sabres any sort of charitable break, or in this case, ascribe as to something they when they havent earned it. The Sabres are going backwards, after all (unlike the Sharks).


I hear you, but i'm not sold on the idea that just because it worked for Eichel (2OA), Reinhart (2OA), ROR (elite defensive forward before BUF), it will work for guys with far lower pedigrees. To be more direct, a guy like Cozens, a career Sabre, scares me as a target, because at best he's a 2nd line player and at worst he eats cap space and blocks a homegrown C talent from getting reps.

Smart teams add these "distressed" assets while in pursuit of a cup and these pieces can be surrounded by talent, not with tons of holes in the lineup. We aren't in that position.

Also, Zadorov, McNabb, and Borgen all played under one season's worth of games Buffalo, idk why they are relevant here. I also don't see how they could be "much maligned" in such a short period of time on a dogshit team. PLUS, Zadorov was traded for ROR, Borgen was an expansion draft pick, and McNabb was traded while in the AHL. These players are only relevant if we're talking about trading for Kulich or Helenius.

Again, all of this is to say, I am extremely cautious about picking fruit from the Sabres' rotted tree

Cozens is a winger being shoehorn into being a center

 

[spintops]

I disagree with Peng. He says Grandlund wanted to stay and wasn't asking for 6-7 years. Was he asking for 5? Even 4 is probably too much for me. He was great for us but I'm not resigning a 33 year old for 5 years just because he wanted to stay even if I appreciate everything he did for the locker room.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I guess, but i dont see people saying that about Celebrini, or anyone who isn't a proven winner. I see them saying intangible things that are backed by his play, like he's a 200ft player, is strong on the puck for his size, has elite skating, etc. Your Benson attributes are accurate, but it seems premature to assign a "guy you win with" tag on him. You say that about a guy like M Tkachuk, who has those attributes and actually is a proven winner at every level. Similarly, all those attributes also describe Jumbo, who you would never add a winner tag to.

You don't think Celebrini is "the type of player you win with"? Just because he hasn't won anything yet doesn't make that not the case.

I don't think negatively about Benson, my point, and why i asked this question, is that I am super cautious of former Sabres property, especially career Sabres, and am unsure why people are quick to give career Sabres any sort of charitable break, or in this case, ascribe as to something they when they havent earned it. The Sabres are going backwards, after all (unlike the Sharks).


I hear you, but i'm not sold on the idea that just because it worked for Eichel (2OA), Reinhart (2OA), ROR (elite defensive forward before BUF), it will work for guys with far lower pedigrees. To be more direct, a guy like Cozens, a career Sabre, scares me as a target, because at best he's a 2nd line player and at worst he eats cap space and blocks a homegrown C talent from getting reps.

Smart teams add these "distressed" assets while in pursuit of a cup and these pieces can be surrounded by talent, not with tons of holes in the lineup. We aren't in that position.

Also, Zadorov, McNabb, and Borgen all played under one season's worth of games Buffalo, idk why they are relevant here. I also don't see how they could be "much maligned" in such a short period of time on a dogshit team. PLUS, Zadorov was traded for ROR, Borgen was an expansion draft pick, and McNabb was traded while in the AHL. These players are only relevant if we're talking about trading for Kulich or Helenius.

Again, all of this is to say, I am extremely cautious about picking fruit from the Sabres' rotted tree

Can you give me an example, other than Mittelstadt (who the jury is still out on) of a promising player acquired from the Sabres that wasn't any good after being traded?

 

[tiburon12]

You don't think Celebrini is "the type of player you win with"? Just because he hasn't won anything yet doesn't make that not the case.

I think Celebrini has that play style that should result in team success if he is the leader, but no, I wouldn't say that any player is "the type you win with" when they havent won anything, especially not a teenager. I don't see why that's a controversial statement. We should evaluate and judge players on what they have demonstrated themselves to be, no?

Perhaps i'm being too literal, but unqualified statements like this are, beyond hockey, far too prevalent today and only set people up for disappointment. And again, we're talking about players on the worst franchise of the generation....

Can you give me an example, other than Mittelstadt (who the jury is still out on) of a promising player acquired from the Sabres that wasn't any good after being traded?

This is a loaded question, since A) you remove a great example that would help my argument, and B) know that he is the only example that fits your criteria; the Sabres arent just growing and dumping all their top talent.....and C) we havent seen the Sabres trade any of this iterations young crop (2018 with Dahlin 1OA), save for Savoie (he played a single game). This question can't be asked in good faith until one of Quinn, Peterka, Power, Dahlin, Cozens, Kulich, etc are on a different team.

So if we boil it down, the edible fruit that teams picked from this rotten tree include Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR. All players from a different era of the Sabres, each with a high pedigree. So i ask again, who from this iteration of the Sabres are the analogs to Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR? It's like Dalhin, Power, and Tage, (all whom are probably off limits) not the lower tier of guys who have failed on that team.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think Celebrini has that play style that should result in team success if he is the leader, but no, I wouldn't say that any player is "the type you win with" when they havent won anything, especially not a teenager. I don't see why that's a controversial statement. We should evaluate and judge players on what they have demonstrated themselves to be, no?

Perhaps i'm being too literal, but unqualified statements like this are, beyond hockey, far too prevalent today and only set people up for disappointment. And again, we're talking about players on the worst franchise of the generation....

This is a loaded question, since A) you remove a great example that would help my argument, and B) know that he is the only example that fits your criteria; the Sabres arent just growing and dumping all their top talent.....and C) we havent seen the Sabres trade any of this iterations young crop (2018 with Dahlin 1OA), save for Savoie (he played a single game). This question can't be asked in good faith until one of Quinn, Peterka, Power, Dahlin, Cozens, Kulich, etc are on a different team.

So if we boil it down, the edible fruit that teams picked from this rotten tree include Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR. All players from a different era of the Sabres, each with a high pedigree. So i ask again, who from this iteration of the Sabres are the analogs to Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR? It's like Dalhin, Power, and Tage, (all whom are probably off limits) not the lower tier of guys who have failed on that team.

I think Cozens, Peterka, and Quinn are the most attractive pieces from the bunch if you don't overhype them. I think all will be very good 2nd liners if deployed in the right situations. Specifically, I think they're good fits as goal-scoring wingers on the Sharks. Power is the one guy I think is poison fruit on that team.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

You don't think Celebrini is "the type of player you win with"? Just because he hasn't won anything yet doesn't make that not the case.


Can you give me an example, other than Mittelstadt (who the jury is still out on) of a promising player acquired from the Sabres that wasn't any good after being traded?

Tony McKegny

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[The McMafia]

I think Cozens, Peterka, and Quinn are the most attractive pieces from the bunch if you don't overhype them. I think all will be very good 2nd liners if deployed in the right situations. Specifically, I think they're good fits as goal-scoring wingers on the Sharks. Power is the one guy I think is poison fruit on that team.

Absolutely Peterka since he's taken big steps this year. Kinda like Eklund did last year.

Now, can they get Will Cuylle off of the Rangers for a couple rentals?

 

[JungleBeat]

Don’t think Grier made a bad trade yet.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Don’t think Grier made a bad trade yet.

Burns trade really wasn't great. But given the limited options meh whatever.

To be fair too, basically everyone he's acquired has been so young we won't know for a few years how they all turn out. I am optimistic and like the moves too though

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Burns trade really wasn't great. But given the limited options meh whatever.

To be fair too, basically everyone he's acquired has been so young we won't know for a few years how they all turn out. I am optimistic and like the moves too though

Burns trade wasn't great but it wasn't bad either and still has potential to turn around. We have Thompson, Svoboda, and Wetsch out of that trade and while none will be anything close to what Burns was, he just wasn't worth much as an old player with term in a flat cap environment that wanted out to compete.

 

[sharski]

Feel like the burns trade was GMMG trying to build a reputation with players and other GMs that he'd trade sharks to good situations if possible and also be able to get deals done fast without drawing it out... Thinking more long term of building his reputation and also just ripping off one of the bandaids asap and not delaying the rebuild with players who want out

 

[Juxtaposer]

The Burns trade was a favor to a guy who served this franchise well for almost ten years. Yes, it was bad value, but I have absolutely no problem with Grier's choice there.

Burns was one of my favorite players (if not my favorite) in his prime, but he was really bad in 2022 and did his value no favors. I wanted him off this team at that time, honestly, because his effort was like 50% all season. That he rebounded in Carolina was no surprise to me, but I hold no grudges with him.

 

[gaucholoco3]

The Burns trade was a favor to a guy who served this franchise well for almost ten years. Yes, it was bad value, but I have absolutely no problem with Grier's choice there.

Burns was one of my favorite players (if not my favorite) in his prime, but he was really bad in 2022 and did his value no favors. I wanted him off this team at that time, honestly, because his effort was like 50% all season. That he rebounded in Carolina was no surprise to me, but I hold no grudges with him.

Also moving Burns created runway for EK to hit 100 pts and help improve his value. In addition it helped start the tank. The pieces acquired in that deal are just the icing on top.

 

[TheBeard]

The Burns trade was, IMO, a way to get one of the numerous pieces off the books to make Grier's job slightly easier.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Also moving Burns created runway for EK to hit 100 pts and help improve his value. In addition it helped start the tank. The pieces acquired in that deal are just the icing on top.

Yup, that too. It was a good move for a lot of reasons even if the trade value was sub-optimal.

 

[STL Shark]

Cleared salary, did Burns a favor, and cleared the EK65 runway. Burns had a big contract and 3 team NTC. That deal was never going to return much with how much term was left and his play that last season in SJ.

Karlsson only returned the 1st rounder because we took so much money back. Otherwise, it would have also been a "bad return" to those that didn't like the Burns deal.

Altogether, we've done a fantastic job of tearing it down. Usually though, that is the easier part of the rebuild. Grier has exceeded expectations by adding 4 additional 1st rounders, 2 prospects drafted in the 1st round, and 3 2nd rounders from a roster that was in cap hell, old, and not very good.

Now we get to see how he truly builds outside of throwing darts at the draft board. This summer is the first time he will be in a cap and roster situation to begin truly building to start trying to win.

 

[Star Platinum]

Now we get to see how he truly builds outside of throwing darts at the draft board. This summer is the first time he will be in a cap and roster situation to begin truly building to start trying to win.

The cap and roster situation isn't that much different from last year other than having two promising rookies having established themselves on the roster. I hope that he can convince other veteran players to come here in free agency. We desperately need some rock-solid veteran defensemen to provide structure and stability as our younger guys come through.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The cap and roster situation isn't that much different from last year other than having two promising rookies having established themselves on the roster. I hope that he can convince other veteran players to come here in free agency. We desperately need some rock-solid veteran defensemen to provide structure and stability as our younger guys come through.

Depending on how this season ends, it may not be just two promising rookies establishing themselves on the roster. It could also be Graf, Kovalenko, and Mukhamadullin as rookies also establishing themselves on this roster with another Calder candidate in Askarov for next season as well as other rookies potentially doing the same in whoever our top draft pick ends up being and someone like Chernyshov or Musty or Dickinson or Cagnoni if things work out where he gets NHL and PP opportunities. Definitely agree with getting veteran options to fill in where we have available spots but we have a pretty nice group of young players making good progress this year during a bad season.