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koteka said:
Considering we have only been around for about twenty years, and pretty much have only been able to hire ex Jackets for 10-15 years, I don’t see the point in such a comparison.

I have met Dorsett and he was working with high school and lower level hockey before the Jackets. I have no problem with his hire. But Boll and Nash don’t make any sense to me.

Nash has been gifted a chance to learn about management. To me it has been too easy for him, and I wonder what he is really learning. If he wanted to work in a front office, he should have started at the bottom like other people do. He is like the boss's son at a firm where the boss brings him and figures the kid will learn the business by attending high level meetings, but the kid never learns the lessons his father learned working his way up, so the kid is a disaster when he takes over.

If we want to compare ourselves to Detroit for example, where a former player is GM, that former player left the franchise for several years and demonstrated he had the skills elsewhere before they named him GM. Also, the Detroit team that produced GMs like Yzerman and Shanahan, actually won playoff games and Stanley Cups, where as the CBJ have won 1 playoff series in our existence. Unless we are producing executives by teaching people what not to do, I don’t think Columbus is a place to look for hockey expertise.
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There is something to be said for learning outside the CBJ bubble. How other organizations function should be something that isn’t overlooked.

If you only know how the CBJ do things and they don’t do it well, that’s a problem.
 
koteka said:
Considering we have only been around for about twenty years, and pretty much have only been able to hire ex Jackets for 10-15 years, I don’t see the point in such a comparison.

I have met Dorsett and he was working with high school and lower level hockey before the Jackets. I have no problem with his hire. But Boll and Nash don’t make any sense to me.

Nash has been gifted a chance to learn about management. To me it has been too easy for him, and I wonder what he is really learning. If he wanted to work in a front office, he should have started at the bottom like other people do. He is like the boss's son at a firm where the boss brings him and figures the kid will learn the business by attending high level meetings, but the kid never learns the lessons his father learned working his way up, so the kid is a disaster when he takes over.

If we want to compare ourselves to Detroit for example, where a former player is GM, that former player left the franchise for several years and demonstrated he had the skills elsewhere before they named him GM. Also, the Detroit team that produced GMs like Yzerman and Shanahan, actually won playoff games and Stanley Cups, where as the CBJ have won 1 playoff series in our existence. Unless we are producing executives by teaching people what not to do, I don’t think Columbus is a place to look for hockey expertise.
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I truly get what you saying , especially with the assistant coaches , etc but Yzerman retired July 2006.. and was named vp and alternate governor of Red Wings in Sept 2006. In may 2010, the lightning named him GM ..Nash became special assistant to Jarmo 2019.. he was promoted to player development 2021.. if anything he’s working his way up much more than Yzerman did , and will probably be in line for a gm job as the jackets start to find success .. it’s why many speculate we will bring on a Hunter , of Holland ,and they will slide to President , as Nash is named GM. Same with McFarland if he’s named ..

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Rick Nash ‘100 percent’ wants to be a GM in the NHL someday

Canada’s new GM at the Worlds has been learning how to run an NHL front office since he was still...
www.dailyfaceoff.com www.dailyfaceoff.com
 
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To me the biggest problem with Nash is his extremely limited experience outside of the CBJ bubble. To me that is a real problem since learning the "CBJ way" is learning a proven formula for losing.

I mean, manipulating your team management structure just to assure that one internal candidate advances is classical CBJ Way.
 
EDM said:
To me the biggest problem with Nash is his extremely limited experience outside of the CBJ bubble. To me that is a real problem since learning the "CBJ way" is learning a proven formula for losing.

I mean, manipulating your team management structure just to assure that one internal candidate advances is classical CBJ Way.
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I think Jarmo was probably one of the better talent evaluators , if you bring in a Hunter , or Holland , guys that have had a ton of hockey management success , that’s a pretty rounded experience . Part of being a good gm is attracting free agents . Nash was looked up to by most of the current players .. from a resume standpoint Gaudreau came here some feel because of his conversations with Nash . And now , he’s thought highly enough by Canada to be named GM .. As the Jackets start winning , he will be the hottest name for GM job .. Especially when you look at Sakic, Yzerman, Drury
 
An ideal setting for me is one where you have a management group of internal people augmented by external folks to offer different perspectives. But I’m reminded of a belief held by our former CEO who believed an organization that is successful can look to promote from within (assuming they have a person ready and capable), but one not operating successfully needs to look outside for a change of direction and culture. Looking at this team, I know how I lean.
 
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koteka said:
Nash has been gifted a chance to learn about management. To me it has been too easy for him, and I wonder what he is really learning. If he wanted to work in a front office, he should have started at the bottom like other people do. He is like the boss's son at a firm where the boss brings him and figures the kid will learn the business by attending high level meetings, but the kid never learns the lessons his father learned working his way up, so the kid is a disaster when he takes over.

If we want to compare ourselves to Detroit for example, where a former player is GM, that former player left the franchise for several years and demonstrated he had the skills elsewhere before they named him GM.
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It's funny because you got it backwards.

They started Nash out at the bottom doing every menial job in the FO. While in Detroit Yzerman went straight into a higher executive position than Nash is in currently.

Personally I'm probably 5+ years from thinking that Nash is a candidate for GM or President, if ever. Nash wasn't as well spoken but has improved a lot in that regard in the last few years. Maybe he gets there.

I understand why Yzerman started out higher, he was one of the best leaders of his era, of course. If Patrice Bergeron wanted to run our team I'd turn it over to him immediately.
 
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majormajor said:
It's funny because you got it backwards.

They started Nash out at the bottom doing every menial job in the FO. While in Detroit Yzerman went straight into a higher executive position than Nash is in currently.

Personally I'm probably 5+ years from thinking that Nash is a candidate for GM or President, if ever. Nash wasn't as well spoken but has improved a lot in that regard in the last few years. Maybe he gets there.

I understand why Yzerman started out higher, he was one of the best leaders of his era, of course. If Patrice Bergeron wanted to run our team I'd turn it over to him immediately.
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majormajor said:
It's funny because you got it backwards.

They started Nash out at the bottom doing every menial job in the FO. While in Detroit Yzerman went straight into a higher executive position than Nash is in currently.

Personally I'm probably 5+ years from thinking that Nash is a candidate for GM or President, if ever. Nash wasn't as well spoken but has improved a lot in that regard in the last few years. Maybe he gets there.

I understand why Yzerman started out higher, he was one of the best leaders of his era, of course. If Patrice Bergeron wanted to run our team I'd turn it over to him immediately.
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What does any of this have to do with anything? Who cares what they did on the ice, doesnt mean much either way for future success in other positions. Gretzky was pretty good at the playing hockey but telling others how to do it didnt go so well. Being well spoken is... pretty low on the list of things Id want a GM to excel in at the end of the day.
 
stevo61 said:
What does any of this have to do with anything? Who cares what they did on the ice, doesnt mean much either way for future success in other positions. Gretzky was pretty good at the playing hockey but telling others how to do it didnt go so well. Being well spoken is... pretty low on the list of things Id want a GM to excel in at the end of the day.
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I was thinking about the parts of leadership that aren't on the ice. It's funny, I wouldn't even describe Gretzky as a good leader, but that's what you thought of.

Telling others how to do it is largely what I credit Bergeron with doing over the years. I credit him with setting high organizational standards, both in the room, and pushing back at incompetent Bruins management when needed. He's also been the one making recruiting calls to UFAs at some points. Of course being one of the most popular players in the league helps.

Is he good at scouting or cap management? I don't know, is Yzerman personally good at it? We only know that they collectively made good decisions. Every GM has to delegate well and that's the sort of thing I would trust Bergeron to do.
 
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majormajor said:
Is he good at scouting or cap management? I don't know, is Yzerman personally good at it? We only know that they collectively made good decisions. Every GM has to delegate well and that's the sort of thing I would trust Bergeron to do.
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I don’t see much of Bergeron or Yzerman in Nash. I see Nash as more of a Gretzky without the will to win. Heck, I really see Nash as a a Duchene or RyJo - someone one who had so much skill and didn’t always work hard. The video that @KJ Dangler posted doesn’t give me much hope about Nash. He seemed to really suck up to Hockey Canada in the clip. It’s like he is hoping that being the only person to speak well of Hockey Canada now that he’ll get more chances to work with them. (Yes, you’ll accuse me of inventing a narrative, and maybe I am reading too much into it, but when was that last time anyone said anything good about Hockey Canada, let alone absolutely gushed over Hockey Canada?)
 
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Rick Nash may make a superlative NHL GM some day. Or he may not.

What is bothersome is the possible notion that he's "the guy" within the organization. Yeah, he's the most well known CBJ player of all time. Yeah, he's got a lot of points. But he led the team to a whole lot of nothing on the ice. I know that's mostly not on him, but at the end of the day, the CBJ were abysmal on the ice during his tenure as a player and Captain.

The CBJ got the "Country Club" label toward the end of Nash's on ice tenure. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement either.

There's nothing that screams "Rick Nash is going to make a great GM!" so far as I can see. What I see is a high name recognition person and not much else. I don't know what Rick Nash is like behind the scenes, but I do know that the CBJ "brain trust" has been less than stellar in its hiring decisions in most key positions over the course of its history. Rick Nash as GM seems to me to be more of the same.

A Holland hire combined with a 5 year plan to promote Nash to GM is not what I would consider something with a high probability of success. I wouldn't even view at as a low risk strategy. I'd look at it as a high risk strategy with the probability of low returns.
 
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Holland inherited an absolute mess in Oilers, so I think he's been a bit limited in what he's been able to do. Which considering some of his decisions might not be a bad thing... Still a huge improvement over Chiarelli, who managed to set an incredibly low bar.
 
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koteka said:
I don’t see much of Bergeron or Yzerman in Nash. I see Nash as more of a Gretzky without the will to win. Heck, I really see Nash as a a Duchene or RyJo - someone one who had so much skill and didn’t always work hard. The video that @KJ Dangler posted doesn’t give me much hope about Nash. He seemed to really suck up to Hockey Canada in the clip. It’s like he is hoping that being the only person to speak well of Hockey Canada now that he’ll get more chances to work with them. (Yes, you’ll accuse me of inventing a narrative, and maybe I am reading too much into it, but when was that last time anyone said anything good about Hockey Canada, let alone absolutely gushed over Hockey Canada?)
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I'm not going to rewatch it to doublecheck, but I just thought he was talking about playing for Canada. Maybe he likes Hockey Canada too, maybe you're allowed to say that now.

Anyways, Rick Nash always talked up how much he loved playing for Canada. Obviously the highlight of his career. :laugh:
 
majormajor said:
I'm not going to rewatch it to doublecheck, but I just thought he was talking about playing for Canada. Maybe he likes Hockey Canada too, maybe you're allowed to say that now.

Anyways, Rick Nash always talked up how much he loved playing for Canada. Obviously the highlight of his career. :laugh:
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Definitely the highlight of his career. He seemed to go out of his way to say Hockey Canada instead of things like playing for Canada.


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