Value of: Gibson Lundestrom for Copp Veleno
- Thread starter lanceuppercut75
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biturbo19
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- Jul 13, 2010
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Unless Talbot's injury is more severe and long-term than i realized, i'm just not entirely sure why this makes sense for Detroit. Not about adding or minus value...just, i don't really know that Detroit would want to add that extra long-term cap in net. Or how that helps them more than Copp, who is massively overpaid, but still a very useful player.
This feels mostly like Detroit's strategy going in, was to just have a bunch of mediocre at best goaltenders and see what sticks.
Just seems like Gibson makes more sense for some other teams.
This feels mostly like Detroit's strategy going in, was to just have a bunch of mediocre at best goaltenders and see what sticks.
Just seems like Gibson makes more sense for some other teams.
dirtydanglez
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- Oct 30, 2022
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lanceuppercut75
Registered User
I think this is a fairly reasonable take.
The idea here would be: (hypothetically) Yzerman likes Gibson, both as a goalie and a veteran who can teach Cossa and I guess Augustine as well during callups. Secondly, this basically removes the chaos situation from the crease and provides stability moving forward: Gibson Talbot now, Gibson Cossa soon and Cossa Augustine eventually. The third point I'll make is that this more or less forces Yzerman into converting Lyon into a draft pick, which is good asset management. That may or may not have happened without this trade. If I'm a DET fan and my team is gonna miss playoffs, I want my GM adding picks.
I generally am a believer that bad teams that aren't contending with the players they have should consider doing shake-up trades to see if the new additions fit better, or at least become more valuable trade assets than what you had before. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. If it IS broke, well, try something.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
I don't hate the idea of Copp to Anaheim on the surface. I think the Trouba trade showed that the Ducks are targetting veterans to solidify areas of weakness on the roster. They are currently sitting dead last in the league in faceoff percentage at just 41.8%, no doubt a significant factor causing them to still spend far too much time cratered in their own end. Copp has always been a pretty good faceoff guy, I've also mentioned Pageau as someone the Ducks could target.
I'd love to hear on honest take from Wings fans regarding what they are getting from Copp and Veleno right now. Is the latter a full time center?
I'd love to hear on honest take from Wings fans regarding what they are getting from Copp and Veleno right now. Is the latter a full time center?
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Gibson - 6.4M x 3
Fowler - 5.5M x 2 (Ducks retain 1M)
Lundestrom - 1.5M RFA
= 13.4M
Copp - 5.625M x 3
Husso - 4.75M
Veleno - 2.275M x 2
= 12.625M
The cap should work, how much would/should the Wings add to make it happen?
Fowler - 5.5M x 2 (Ducks retain 1M)
Lundestrom - 1.5M RFA
= 13.4M
Copp - 5.625M x 3
Husso - 4.75M
Veleno - 2.275M x 2
= 12.625M
The cap should work, how much would/should the Wings add to make it happen?
Axel Sandy Pelikan
Sugar-free Rock Star
- May 11, 2023
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They should add nothing. They should stop pursuing the deal and not be interested at all. The goalies are fine in Detroit.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
I'd rather yzerman trade Husso at TDL. Usually someone loses a goalie, and if that happens they could be desperate enough to throw yzerman a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a cheap option.
Husso contract expires after this season. Adding Gibson for 3 years doesn't fit the timeline of the team.
Husso contract expires after this season. Adding Gibson for 3 years doesn't fit the timeline of the team.
I think fans around the league should stop thinking about Gibson as a cap dump type of trade. Either he will go to another team for more than people expect or he will stay in Anaheim. The cap is not an issue and his play this year has been reminiscent of the old Gibson. Not to mention that it is shaping up as an extreme sellers market for goalies as we move towards the TDL.
Hobnobs
Pinko
- Nov 29, 2011
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Veleno is a full-time center but at minimum ice-time. He does well at face offs though so that something.
Red wings have no interest in Gibson so there is where the deal kinda falls apart.
anezthes
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- Mar 20, 2014
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Crazy8oooo
Puck Off!
This is worse for the Ducks than the originally proposed deal. Why are you adding Fowler as though he’s a dump with no value? And on top of that, you have them retaining?
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Read the whole post, I was just balancing out the salaries. Detroit obviously needs to add value if there's a trade there, as I stated at the bottom.
anezthes
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VanillaCoke
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- Oct 30, 2013
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OtherThingsILike
Registered User
I feel like Anaheim is the one giving up more here, by a lot. Even if we were to view Gibson as a cap dump trade - which I don't think he is - Copp is a worse cap dump. He is making over $5.6M a year (for this season and the next three seasons) and only has 9 points this season. Veleno is also making too much money for his production, and is arguably having a worse season than Lundestrom.
At a minimum, Detroit needs to add a 2nd and a 3rd to make this fair.
At a minimum, Detroit needs to add a 2nd and a 3rd to make this fair.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Oh I agree they need to add a lot to make that sensible for our end.
Veleno for Lundy has some merit as a change of scenery, Wings save some $ and Ducks badly need the better faceoff guy. I'm fine with that portion being fairly even.
I don't dislike the idea of getting a veteran forward of similar term in a Gibson deal. Copp is a proven veteran leader and faceoff guy, puts up 3C type production. Ducks could really use that type of player down the middle if they want to solidify the lineup. Only two years left on the deal, shouldn't be problematic. I think the difference in value between the two could be represented by a B asset.
Fowler at 5.5M for one more year, should be able to fetch a 1st. If the Ducks take back a cap dump like Husso to facilitate, they should definitely be demanding a 1st or more.
Fowler, Gibson, Lundestrom for Copp, Husso, Veleno, 2025 1st (protected), 2026 2nd...does that seem far off from what you would be expecting?
Hobnobs
Pinko
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Take out Gibson and Husso. No need to make this complicated.
Lundeström for Veleno, as a change of scenery trade.
I don't think either teams fans will ever agree to Fowlers value and adding a defenseman without trading one away will be a pain for the Wings. Then we get back into cap dumps and the extra complications that brings.
Lundeström for Veleno, as a change of scenery trade.
I don't think either teams fans will ever agree to Fowlers value and adding a defenseman without trading one away will be a pain for the Wings. Then we get back into cap dumps and the extra complications that brings.
lanceuppercut75
Registered User
Fowler (with retention I guess) for Petry plus makes sense (assuming that the "plus" is fair value). Petry is cheap-ish AND expiring AND a player that playoff teams would probably want to add for a 4th or 5th or 6th as a deadline rental for depth. Anaheim could theoretically keep Petry for as little as 2 or 3 or 4 weeks and then flip him as a rental. Or flip him at the deadline. Alternatively, Ducks could keep Petry all year, if they preferred.
Detroit "adding a D without trading one away will be pain" issue solved, bingo bango bongo.
Crazy8oooo
Puck Off!
Fowler would be moved due to having too many dmen. Taking one back defeats the purpose. Wouldn’t make any sense for Anaheim. They’d likely be looking for forward help.
Problem is the Ducks already have Trouba and Gudas that will be in the lineup, Dumoulin has been really solid and here at least until the deadline, plus Mintyukov, Zellweger, LaCombe, and Helleson that all are NHL ready and need time. Taking a D back will be seen as negative value for the Ducks unless it's a 3 way deal and he's flipped immediately.
If it's not a deadline deal and something in the near future, Fowler for a RHS forward upgrade might be what Verbeek goes for. Not a young guy, but a 1 for 1 swap for a 2nd line forward that can score goals if he's fed passes. Someone with similar age and years left on the contract as Fowler (cap hit isn't as big of an issue).
lanceuppercut75
Registered User
Okay.. .so Yzerman and/or Verbeek identify which team is willing to give Anaheim a 5th rounder for Petry, make this trade, and then Anaheim trades Petry as a rental to the third team for a 5th round pick 5 minutes later.
Hobnobs
Pinko
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We are not dumping Petry. He's a good bottom pairing D and if we add Fowler it means we are still trying this season. Ducks don't need D either.
So it would be dumping Holl and/or Gustafsson. To a third team.
Axel Sandy Pelikan
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- May 11, 2023
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I mean, they don’t need to add because they don’t particularly want any of the pieces being offered at the prices you are asking.
This is cute. The only thing you say benefits the Ducks is "Copp fits ANH's plan a bit better than Gibson."
How in the world is that the case? I would rather overpay a backup goalie then overpay a 3rd liner, especially when we have enough of those guys as it is. And thats assuming Gibson doesnt have a bounceback, which he has had this year.
You're stuck with Copp lol. There is nothing appealing Detroit would realistically offer to make me want to take him.
How in the world is that the case? I would rather overpay a backup goalie then overpay a 3rd liner, especially when we have enough of those guys as it is. And thats assuming Gibson doesnt have a bounceback, which he has had this year.
You're stuck with Copp lol. There is nothing appealing Detroit would realistically offer to make me want to take him.
