German Prospects for the NHL Draft

Maverick41

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Since we’re talking about things changing over the next years, here’s a bold prediction: Max Hense will be #1 on that 2024 list.

That is very interesting.
I have only seen him a little bit so far (playing for the U16 national team). Right now, for the 2024 list in particular, late 05 birthdays have an advantage, because I have seen them more and in some cases at a higher level (U20). But Hense along with Herzog, Pape, Pul and my personal favourite of the bunch Brunner have me intrigued.

Supplanting Mayer at the top is a tall order, but even if it is, as you state, a bold prediction it is good to know that you are high on Hense.

Really looking forward to getting back into a groove following these prospects as they progress. Hopefully there will be no more COVID interruptions.
 

pgfan66

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That is very interesting.
I have only seen him a little bit so far (playing for the U16 national team). Right now, for the 2024 list in particular, late 05 birthdays have an advantage, because I have seen them more and in some cases at a higher level (U20). But Hense along with Herzog, Pape, Pul and my personal favourite of the bunch Brunner have me intrigued.

Supplanting Mayer at the top is a tall order, but even if it is, as you state, a bold prediction it is good to know that you are high on Hense.

Really looking forward to getting back into a groove following these prospects as they progress. Hopefully there will be no more COVID interruptions.
I’ll admit I’ve only seen Mayer once in the Cologne game where he got injured, so I could well be wrong here. I’m just really high on Hense. He looks like an NHL-type D-man. Has a huge size advantage in his age group, though, so I look forward to seeing him at the U20 level where size won’t help him as much.
 

JotAlan

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2026 Draft and beyond?
Aleksei Abramov (2025 or 2026 Draft)
Adel Akhmadeev (2026 or 2027 Draft)
Marc Blank (2025 or 2026 Draft)
Landon Dupont (2027 or 2028 Draft)
Awrelij Fomenko (2025 or 2026 Draft)
David Lewandowski (2025 Draft)
Karl Philipp Pohle (2025 or 2026 Draft)
Max Thiel (2026 Draft)
Lennox Ullmann (2028 Draft)

I'll admit that we are getting in somewhat ridiculous territory here with players aged 9-13. So let me know if you think I should remove them and wait until they are older.

Something about Timo Kose? 2007 boy with impressive numbers on u17
 
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Maverick41

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Something about Timo Kose? 2007 boy with impressive numbers on u17

No not yet. When it comes to that age group I am entirely limited to stat watching at the moment.
I have somewhat updated watch lists for later years as well (I have currently a list of 13 names for the 2025 draft, 10 for 2026 and 8 beyond that), and Timo Kose is on the list for 2025, Same as Fabio Kose, who, I assume, is Timo's twin brother and appears to play defense.
But I am reluctant to post any of those lists here, because there is only stat watching involved.
 
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JotAlan

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No not yet. When it comes to that age group I am entirely limited to stat watching at the moment.
I have somewhat updated watch lists for later years as well (I have currently a list of 13 names for the 2025 draft, 10 for 2026 and 8 beyond that), and Timo Kose is on the list for 2025, Same as Fabio Kose, who, I assume, is Timo's twin brother and appears to play defense.
But I am reluctant to post any of those lists here, because there is only stat watching involved.

I didn't see him play either. But looking only at stats it's doing better even than names like Max Herzog, even though it's a year younger. Once you have something more concrete post. I'm curious about some names in these age groups.
 

Maverick41

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I didn't see him play either. But looking only at stats it's doing better even than names like Max Herzog, even though it's a year younger. Once you have something more concrete post. I'm curious about some names in these age groups.

I have to log off now, but I can send you a message with those lists tomorrow. And as the season goes on, I will likely post at least the list for 2025 on here. Probably in January.
 
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Dopemon

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I know he isn't German but Marcel Mahkovec for the Krefelder EV 81 is on my list of players to watch. Since he's first year draft eligible and playing with Luca Hauf and Matthias Bittner, I figured I'd check him out as well.

Germany's been one of the harder leagues for us to scout, but since we plan on visiting for the U18s in April we wanted to be more familiar with the league and players. Thanks for this thread: very helpful looking at my own list and comparing
 

JotAlan

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I see people everywhere rating Ahl above Del and paired with Shl/Liiga or above. Reichel and Peterka are on ppg rhythm this season. Do you believe they would play above that at Del? Or maybe there's a lot of hype about Ahl and less appreciation of the German league?
 

Halfdan

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The DEL is as poorly rated as it is. Without a doubt, the AHL, SHL and Liiga are the better leagues in terms of sports. The DEL is also weaker than the Swiss National League.
The DEL relies mainly on second- and third-rate Canadians. German junior players are only used within the U23 rule and at best are only really given ice time when there is a shortage of players. Promoting young talent looks different. Yet the 2002 vintage is pushing into the league. We haven't had a stronger vintage in decades.
Stützle and Reichel were practically the only regulars with quality ice time. Even Peterka had to live with unsatisfactory ice time in Munich.
A Florian Elias had an average of nine minutes of ice time this season. After nine regulars are out, he has eighteen minutes in recent games. Has that hurt the Mannheim game? Certainly not!
The last two years a Trevor Parkes belonged to the most conspicuous players of the league. Any questions?
 
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Maverick41

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I see people everywhere rating Ahl above Del and paired with Shl/Liiga or above. Reichel and Peterka are on ppg rhythm this season. Do you believe they would play above that at Del? Or maybe there's a lot of hype about Ahl and less appreciation of the German league?

I don't think they would necessarily score at a higher rate in the DEL, but not due to higher level of competition, but due to less opportunity.
If they would have stayed at their respective DEL teams, Reichel might have better numbers there than he does in the AHL because he would likely still play on his teams top line and top pp, which is incredibly rare for young players in that league. Peterka on the other hand, as talented as he is, might have had a harder time getting those same minutes and opportunities he is getting now in the AHL.

The AHL is a developmental league and the DEL is a pro league where teams, coaches and everyone else involved are always looking to win now, and are not trying to push young players by giving them big minutes. And even prospects who play decent minutes are often not on the ice when the game is on the line, in those critical situation where you have pulled your goalie trying to send the game to OT or when you are trying to hang on to a lead. That's when pretty much all teams always go to their vets.

And as @Halfdan has mentioned most young players are only used by the clubs due to the U23 rules. I have been tracking the ice time of U23 players for the last couple of seasons, and one thing you notice, apart from U23 players too often just being dressed to staisfy the rules, but not even getting a single shift, is that even U23 players who have been doing well in limited ice time for multiple seasons will see their ice time drop, or even see themselves moved off the team entirely, once they no longer fall under the U23 since most teams would rather have a 32-year old AHL journeyman than a 24-year old home grown player.

For now the 02s seem like an aberration with several of them really doing well this season and stepping up when given the chance. Really hope they can keep this up. If Elias, Dziambor, Samanski, Szuber and Blank keep doing well, and some of the others who have shown glimpses like Stowasser, Glötzl or Rutkowski keep developing this could be big for hockey in Germany.
 
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JotAlan

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I don't think they would necessarily score at a higher rate in the DEL, but not due to higher level of competition, but due to less opportunity.
If they would have stayed at their respective DEL teams, Reichel might have better numbers there than he does in the AHL because he would likely still play on his teams top line and top pp, which is incredibly rare for young players in that league. Peterka on the other hand, as talented as he is, might have had a harder time getting those same minutes and opportunities he is getting now in the AHL.

The AHL is a developmental league and the DEL is a pro league where teams, coaches and everyone else involved are always looking to win now, and are not trying to push young players by giving them big minutes. And even prospects who play decent minutes are often not on the ice when the game is on the line, in those critical situation where you have pulled your goalie trying to send the game to OT or when you are trying to hang on to a lead. That's when pretty much all teams always go to their vets.

And as @Halfdan has mentioned most young players are only used by the clubs due to the U23 rules. I have been tracking the ice time of U23 players for the last couple of seasons, and one thing you notice, apart from U23 players too often just being dressed to staisfy the rules, but not even getting a single shift, is that even U23 players who have been doing well in limited ice time for multiple seasons will see their ice time drop, or even see themselves moved off the team entirely, once they no longer fall under the U23 since most teams would rather have a 32-year old AHL journeyman than a 24-year old home grown player.

For now the 02s seem like an aberration with several of them really doing well this season and stepping up when given the chance. Really hope they can keep this up. If Elias, Dziambor, Samanski, Szuber and Blank keep doing well, and some of the others who have shown glimpses like Stowasser, Glötzl or Rutkowski keep developing this could be big for hockey in Germany.

Thanks for the feedback.

Taking into account the evolution of some players from this vintage of 02. How would you make the squad with the best (including the 3-headed monster Stutzle/Reichel/Peterka) for the wjc?
 

Maverick41

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Thanks for the feedback.

Taking into account the evolution of some players from this vintage of 02. How would you make the squad with the best (including the 3-headed monster Stutzle/Reichel/Peterka) for the wjc?

Ok, a couple of caveats up front. I included Luca Münzenberger, though I am not sure if he would be available from the NCAA, and I am not sure the positions are necessarily correct, as I am doing this off the top of my haed. Which means I may also have forgotten somebody. Also included Haakon Hänelt despite his injury.

Forwards:
Tim Stützle - Lukas Reichel - JJ Peterka
Joshua Samanski - Florian Elias - Samuel Dubé
Danjo Leonhardt - Jakub Borzecki - Alexander Blank
Haakon Häanelt* - Justin Volek - Maciej Rutkowski
*If I leave off Hänelt because of his injury I would probably take Markus Schweiger or maybe Josef Eham in his place

Defensemen:
Luca Münzenberger - Maximilian Glötzl
Maksymilian Szuber - Arkadiusz Dziambor
Korbinian Geibel - Fabrizio Pilu
Simon Stowasser - Tim Sezemsky

With Münzenberger included the top6 are pretty much set in my view. I took Sezemsky to have another right shot D on the team, otherwise it would only be Pilu, I think. And then for me it was between Stowasser or Adrian Klein (2003) and I went with Stowasser, who is more mobile and the D-corps is already plenty big. Though I would be fine with either one of them, or even Daniel Schwaiger. There is not much that separates these players in my opinion.

Goalies:
Florian Bugl
Nikita Quapp
Arno Tiefensee

Only Bugl and Quapp really matter. The third goalie should be be either Niklas Lunemann who I would normally have picked or Arno Tiefensee, who has been playing fairly well this season and I decided to take him mostly because he is playing pro hockey in the DEL2, whereas Lunemann is playing in the DNL.
 
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Halfdan

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It is very unlikely that Samuel Dube will play at the 2021 WJC. Markus Schweiger, on the other hand, has a good standing with the coaches and has also convinced in terms of performance.

Jakub Borzecki will play LW. He has always done that. Josh Samanski will probably play together with David Volek. The question is, who will be the third man. Florian Elias, Markus Schweiger or someone else.

In defense, Korbinian Geibel and Arkadiusz Dziambor would swap places for me.
 

JotAlan

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Ok, a couple of caveats up front. I included Luca Münzenberger, though I am not sure if he would be available from the NCAA, and I am not sure the positions are necessarily correct, as I am doing this off the top of my haed. Which means I may also have forgotten somebody. Also included Haakon Hänelt despite his injury.

Forwards:
Tim Stützle - Lukas Reichel - JJ Peterka
Joshua Samanski - Florian Elias - Samuel Dubé
Danjo Leonhardt - Jakub Borzecki - Alexander Blank
Haakon Häanelt* - Justin Volek - Maciej Rutkowski
*If I leave off Hänelt because of his injury I would probably take Markus Schweiger or maybe Josef Eham in his place

Defensemen:
Luca Münzenberger - Maximilian Glötzl
Maksymilian Szuber - Arkadiusz Dziambor
Korbinian Geibel - Fabrizio Pilu
Simon Stowasser - Tim Sezemsky

With Münzenberger included the top6 are pretty much set in my view. I took Sezemsky to have another right shot D on the team, otherwise it would only be Pilu, I think. And then for me it was between Stowasser or Adrian Klein (2003) and I went with Stowasser, who is more mobile and the D-corps is already plenty big. Though I would be fine with either one of them, or even Daniel Schwaiger. There is not much that separates these players in my opinion.

Goalies:
Florian Bugl
Nikita Quapp
Arno Tiefensee

Only Bugl and Quapp really matter. The third goalie should be be either Niklas Lunemann who I would normally have picked or Arno Tiefensee, who has been playing fairly well this season and I decided to take him mostly because he is playing pro hockey in the DEL2, whereas Lunemann is playing in the DNL.

I really love the first two lines of defense, the first line attacking trio would be surreal and a team with good depth. It's really a shame that most will not be in the wjc, if complete this team would have a chance of medal.
 

JotAlan

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I was hoping to do a really fancy looking list with the different tiers for the players, but that turned out to be a little too ambitious. (Still working on it so I may post it at a later date).
But for now here is the top 30 list as of now:

1Moritz Seider
2Tim Stützle
3Lukas Reichel
4John-Jason Peterka
5Julian Lutz
6Florian Elias
7Justin Schütz
8Roman Kechter
9Tobias Ancicka
10Taro Jentzsch
11Dominik Bokk
12Maximilian Glötzl
13Leo Hafenrichter
14Simon Wolf
15Haakon Hänelt
16Moritz Elias
17Luca Hauf
18Nino Kinder
19Tommy Pasanen
20Simon Gnyp
21Nikita Quapp
22Bennet Roßmy
23Joshua Samanski
24Samuel Dubé
25Hendrik Hane
26Arkadiusz Dziambor
27Leon Hüttl
28Filip Varejcka
29Filip Reisnecker
30Yannik Valenti
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
After Luca Hauf at 17 I have still been moving players around, because the differences from there on are so marginal. So if I ever get around to post the "fancy list" there could be some changes from 18 onward.
As for Lutz: I have Seider and Stützle in their own tier and then Lutz along with Reichel and Peterka in the 2nd tier. Reichel is for me the best of those three. I was considering to put Lutz ahead of Peterka, but the gap between Lukas and JJ is not big enough for me to be comfortable to slot Lutz in there without having seen a bit more of him myself.
But his stock is clearly rising and might pass both Peterka and Reichel as soon as next season, if the things I have heard about him hold up and he develops further.

Looking back at the list, I really missed Alexander Blank, last year he had already had a great season at DEL for an 18 year old boy (I believe he should be in the top 30) . After these 2/3 months of season, how do you think about this list? (When you have time, if possible, redo and add 2005/06 if you feel it is necessary.
 

JotAlan

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Has anyone heard of Noah Kosick? German/Canadian boy, son of Mark Kosick who played in DEL2 who is obliterating CSSHL U15 at age 13 with 10-48-58 in 18 games 3.22ppg (numbers similar to Matthew Savoie at the same age).
 

Maverick41

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Has anyone heard of Noah Kosick? German/Canadian boy, son of Mark Kosick who played in DEL2 who is obliterating CSSHL U15 at age 13 with 10-48-58 in 18 games 3.22ppg (numbers similar to Matthew Savoie at the same age).

Haven't heard anything beyond the numbers you mentioned, and when I update my lists around New Year's I will include him in the list for the 2026 draft. Although I think he might choose to play for Canada, and if that is an option for him I could not blame him.
Would be interesting to know how strong his ties to Germany are or if he just happens to have the citizenship because he was born in Germany while his father was playing here.
 
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JotAlan

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Haven't heard anything beyond the numbers you mentioned, and when I update my lists around New Year's I will include him in the list for the 2026 draft. Although I think he might choose to play for Canada, and if that is an option for him I could not blame him.
Would be interesting to know how strong his ties to Germany are or if he just happens to have the citizenship because he was born in Germany while his father was playing here.

As well as being born in Germany, I can't say, but it seems his father also has dual nationality. I haven't seen him play, other than a skill clip, but the numbers are preposterous for his age. Yes, it's quite possible that he chooses Canada, but independently he's a child for us to watch.
 

GermanSpitfire

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As well as being born in Germany, I can't say, but it seems his father also has dual nationality. I haven't seen him play, other than a skill clip, but the numbers are preposterous for his age. Yes, it's quite possible that he chooses Canada, but independently he's a child for us to watch.
Yeah, this is the first i’ve heard of this also.
If he does in fact choose to represent Germany internationally - he is definitely the best prospect coming out of Germany in the next 5 years.
 

canucklax

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Doesn't the IIHF require you play for two years in a country before representing them? If he's grown up in Canada I think he would have to go abroad unless given an exemption like William Nylander
 

Maverick41

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Doesn't the IIHF require you play for two years in a country before representing them? If he's grown up in Canada I think he would have to go abroad unless given an exemption like William Nylander

I am not sure, but I think the two years only come into play if the player acquires a new citizenship.
So if Noah received German citizenship at birth, I believe he could still play for the German junior national team regardless. It would get trickier as he gets older, if he keeps living in Canada, he will have to choose one citizenship or the other, and he would probably pick Canadian citizenship in that scenario.

So, I would guess the chances he ends up playing for Germany are pretty slim, but who knows what happens in the next few year.
 
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Maverick41

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Paul Mayer has gotten into a couple of DEL2 games for Kaufbeuren.
Who was the last German 16 year old to play in either the DEL or DEL2? Seider?

It actually was Leo Hafenrichter (Seider never played DEL2) only last season. He played 3 games for Bad Nauheim (also played 2 games in the DEL for Cologne).
Before that, it was Garret Pruden also for Bad Nauheim (7 games in the 2014-15 season)
Also Maximilian Daubner and Jakob Mayenschein played 4 and 5 games respectively for Landshut in 2013-14

There were also a couple of goalies who got a game at some point I think.

So, it happens occasionally but not a lot.
 

Maverick41

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The post above is just about DEL2.

Here is the list of 16 year olds in the DEL since 1994 (there may have been more in the past but I could not find any data):

2020-21:
Roman Kechter (Nürnberg) - 21 games
Moritz Elias (Nürnberg) - 16 games
Leo Hafenrichter (Köln) - 2 games
Luca Hauf (Krefeld) - 2 games

2017-18:
Moritz Seider (Mannheim) - 4 games

2005-06:
Andre Huebscher (Krefeld) - 6 games
Danny Fischbach (Krefeld) - 4 games

2004-05:
Christian Wendler (Krefeld) - 1 game*

2003-04:
Christoph Gawlik (Mannheim) - 2 games

2002-03:
Andy Reiss (Hannover) - 3 games
Nikolai Goc (Schwenningen) - 1 game

2001-02:
Patrick Koslow (Augsburg) - 2 games*

1999-00:
Marcel Goc (Schwenningen) - 51 games

1995-96:
Christian Schönmoser (Riessersee) - 20 games
Sascha Goc (Schwenningen) - 1 game

*Goalies
 

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