General Discussion (Team/Player/Trade Talk/Speculation/News) Part XIV

[Emperoreddy]

Continue...

To go on the last point, I think the most likely option to make a trade for assets and stil compete this year would be to trade Zids. The problem I have with trading Jagr at this point if we are trying to compete as I don't think we can still attempt to make the playoffs without him. He fits really well here, and he is thriving in the role we are giving him.

 

[sbresistor]

There is nothing unreasonable about retiring someone who has been here since 1987, especially in light of the recent mistakes made during the last 8 years. Some GMs would sign up for 5 to 6 years nevermind 27 years of tenure.

haha, you didn't answer his question - go ahead, give him at least 3 GMs that you think are better than Lou - so he can look at their moves

 

[JimEIV]

Continue...

To go on the last point, I think the most likely option to make a trade for assets and stil compete this year would be to trade Zids.

Depends...what if you are getting a young almost NHL ready player in return?

Sean Burke and Eric Weinrich for Holik and 2nd was another brilliant Lou move that looked at the time like a futures deal that really wasn't.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Depends...what if you are getting a young almost NHL ready player in return?

Sean Burke and Eric Weinrich for Holik and 2nd was another brilliant Lou move that looked at the time like a futures deal that really wasn't.

That does change things, I guess I was seeing Jagr's potential return being high picks and possibly futures that are farther away from the NHL.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

There is nothing unreasonable about retiring someone who has been here since 1987, especially in light of the recent mistakes made during the last 8 years. Some GMs would sign up for 5 to 6 years nevermind 27 years of tenure.

You're not making sense. You're actively pushing for Lou's dismissal due to what is essentially a handful of mistakes over 27 years. You do understand that compared to his peers Lou Lams is well above average. That making the post-season 7 out of 9 years and appearing in a Cup Final is a successful tenure as GM. If he did that in Toronto, just that, they'd build him a statue.

You have been spoiled by the very man you want gone. He molded your brain to expect nothing short of excellence because that's precisely what he expects of himself and his staff. All that winning we had, all those hall of famers, he is the one who gave that to you and he is the one that created those unreasonable expectations.

So because he loses a trade, misses the playoffs, doesn't forfeit a pick that all of us "experts" wanted forfeited he's a failure of a GM and needs to retire? Because the game passed him by?

Come on now.

 

[njdevils1982]

Depends...what if you are getting a young almost NHL ready player in return?

Sean Burke and Eric Weinrich for Holik and 2nd was another brilliant Lou move that looked at the time like a futures deal that really wasn't.

that 2nd turned out to be pando

 

[JimEIV]

That does change things, I guess I was seeing Jagr's potential return being high picks and possibly futures that are farther away from the NHL.

Picks are the most likely scenario, I mean no contender is going to give up a roster player but I don't see prying a solid AHL player on the cusp out of question either?

 

[NJDevs26]

Trading players for assets doesn't have to be contrary to winning thought...Ive watched Lou trade Kirk Muller Pat Verbeek,, Claude Lemiuex, Peter Sykora, Jason Arnott all while competing...

Making moved doesn't necessarily mean packing it in and I don't know why that perception exist?

Trading Jagr and Zidlicky isn't about shifting assets, it's purely going to be a picks dump. Teams aren't as willing to give away their NHL-ready prospects for rentals in a cap era. Trading a Larsson for a young stud forward is more of the mold of shuffling the deck.

Depends...what if you are getting a young almost NHL ready player in return?

Sean Burke and Eric Weinrich for Holik and 2nd was another brilliant Lou move that looked at the time like a futures deal that really wasn't.

Burke being traded was a completely different circumstance. It was in the midst of an extended holdout where Burke was not going to play for the Devils anyway, and a move made during the offseason - not at the trade deadline.

 

[Bleedred]

Just one more time for fun. Let's look at some of the UFA's of last Summer that we either wanted on this board, or were rumored to have interest in. We dodged some major bullets.

Wendel Clarkson - 8 points in 36 games. We really dodged a bullet with this albatross. 4 points less than Clowe in 17 more games played. Same number of goals scored. Now injured. Clowe has been the better pickup.

Stephen Weiss - 4 points in 26 games. He's injured now, but we were rumored to have been in on him. Same agent as Clarky and that guy is now wetting himself all the way to the bank after robbing Toronto and Detroit. Cam Janssen has one fewer point in 3 less games.

Viktor Stalberg - 15 points in 45 games. 1 point fewer than Brunner in 12 less games. And Brunner even went a while where he was playing badly. Brunner is looking like the better pickup.

Danny Briere - 13 points in 36 games. Not good enough for a 36 year old that is signed 2 years at $4 million per year, as well as getting however many million in buyout money. Ryder has been the better pickup.

 

[Captain Lou]

The Chicago Blackhawks were absolute dreck for 10 years. Now, they are a model franchise? Amazing what having all those top picks for all those years does for a team.

2007-08 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 40 34 8 88 .537 3rd
2006-07 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 31 42 9 71 .433 5th
2005-06 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 26 43 13 65 .396 4th
2003-04 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 20 43 11 8 59 .360 5th
2002-03 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 30 33 13 6 79 .482 3rd
2001-02 NHL Chicago Blackhawks* 82 41 27 13 1 96 .585 3rd Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals
2000-01 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 29 40 8 5 71 .433 4th
1999-00 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 33 37 10 2 78 .476 3rd
1998-99 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 29 41 12 70 .427 3rd
1997-98 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 30 39 13 73 .445 5th

Check out that point column! One year out of nine with 90 points. All the rest below 80 except one. One year out of nine in the playoffs. Like this franchise could withstand that. They'd be sold or foreclosed on and moved.

This is shining example of tanking. Never mind all of the other teams that tank and get nowhere.

 

[JimEIV]

The UFA signings Lou made this season were spectacular... now wouldn't it be nice if he could parlay those signings into cord players?

 

[JimEIV]

Except for Clowe.. sorry that wasn't good.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

The Chicago Blackhawks were absolute dreck for 10 years. Now, they are a model franchise? Amazing what having all those top picks for all those years does for a team.

2007-08 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 40 34 8 88 .537 3rd
2006-07 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 31 42 9 71 .433 5th
2005-06 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 26 43 13 65 .396 4th
2003-04 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 20 43 11 8 59 .360 5th
2002-03 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 30 33 13 6 79 .482 3rd
2001-02 NHL Chicago Blackhawks* 82 41 27 13 1 96 .585 3rd Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals
2000-01 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 29 40 8 5 71 .433 4th
1999-00 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 33 37 10 2 78 .476 3rd
1998-99 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 29 41 12 70 .427 3rd
1997-98 NHL Chicago Blackhawks 82 30 39 13 73 .445 5th

Check out that point column! One year out of nine with 90 points. All the rest below 80 except one. One year out of nine in the playoffs. Like this franchise could withstand that. They'd be sold or foreclosed on and moved.

This is shining example of tanking. Never mind all of the other teams that tank and get nowhere.

But Lou is a bad GM because we didn't tank for 9 years. Tanking in NJ for 9 years would have resulted in this franchise moving as well. Which is something many people don't consider.

You would not have a team to root for if it wasn't for Lou, Tundra. His actions are calculated, they all have reasons and are substantiated by logic. He comes out winning more often than not. Sure, like all GMs, he will be faced with poor moves and adversity. But give me a break if you think you can find me a better GM for the NJ Devils than Lou Lamoriello.

The respect he commands around the league is enough to get players to come play here. But lets fire Lou and hire Feaster because you know. Feaster isn't Lou and he's new.

My biggest fear is "who takes over once Lou is gone?"

 

[Bleedred]

Sean Burke was ass for the Devils after those 88 playoffs. Was regularly outplayed by Chris Terreri. Had the nerve to holdout because he claimed he wasn't being used properly. Started playing more butterfly and doubled his pad size years later, and somehow looked like an elite goalie in the early 00s.

Sending that bum out really did us a favor. We got Holik and the pick that became Pandolfo out of him and first and foremost, it created a spot for Marty to come in about a year later.

 

[Captain Lou]

How about this tank job. Seems to be going well out there, huh?

2013-14 NHL Edmonton Oilers 52 15 31 6 36 .346 7th
2012-13 NHL Edmonton Oilers 48 19 22 7 45 .469 3rd
2011-12 NHL Edmonton Oilers 82 32 40 10 74 .451 5th
2010-11 NHL Edmonton Oilers 82 25 45 12 62 .378 5th
2009-10 NHL Edmonton Oilers 82 27 47 8 62 .378 5th
2008-09 NHL Edmonton Oilers 82 38 35 9 85 .518 4th
2007-08 NHL Edmonton Oilers 82 41 35 6 88 .537 4th
2006-07 NHL Edmonton Oilers 82 32 43 7 71 .433 5th

Now, that's progress! Why on Earth would any fan of any team accept this? This is the exact risk you take when you "rebuild".

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Except for Clowe.. sorry that wasn't good.

I think that contract is awful. But think about it for a moment. What makes it awful? Having Clowe get hurt, right? In which case...LTIR and insurance pays. Contract comes off the cap.

Essentially Clowe only gets his money from the Devils if he plays for the Devils. Otherwise Clowe will be receiving his millions from BWD Group.

The only risk is Clowe underperforming and staying healthy. Which he really hadn't done in his career outside of last year (when he was hurt to).

 

[Tundra]

You're not making sense. You're actively pushing for Lou's dismissal due to what is essentially a handful of mistakes over 27 years. You do understand that compared to his peers Lou Lams is well above average. That making the post-season 7 out of 9 years and appearing in a Cup Final is a successful tenure as GM. If he did that in Toronto, just that, they'd build him a statue.

You have been spoiled by the very man you want gone. He molded your brain to expect nothing short of excellence because that's precisely what he expects of himself and his staff. All that winning we had, all those hall of famers, he is the one who gave that to you and he is the one that created those unreasonable expectations.

So because he loses a trade, misses the playoffs, doesn't forfeit a pick that all of us "experts" wanted forfeited he's a failure of a GM and needs to retire? Because the game passed him by?

Come on now.

I've always maintained that Lou's way was unsustainable going back to the early 2000s. I didn't just wake up after a dismal 2013 and decided to attack the man without facts. He's either going to have to adapt (which I believe to be highly unlikely) or he's going to do serious damage to to this org as well as his legacy.

 

[Bleedred]

Except for Clowe.. sorry that wasn't good.

Better than Clarkson. Even with the injury. I said all offseason that Clowe is an upgrade over Clarkson. Let's hope he stays healthy. This team would have been so beyond awful the last few weeks if Elias, Brunner, and Clowe were all injured at the same time. Some production by Clowe in games we barely scored, got us some points during that stretch.

If we hadn't gotten Clowe, people would be complaining about Lou never did anything to replace Clarkson, like they did (including me) with Parise last year. If healthy, we got an upgrade.

 

[DeVols]

Continue...

To go on the last point, I think the most likely option to make a trade for assets and stil compete this year would be to trade Zids. The problem I have with trading Jagr at this point if we are trying to compete as I don't think we can still attempt to make the playoffs without him. He fits really well here, and he is thriving in the role we are giving him.

What do you guys think about this proposal? A neutral fan posted this. I don't the Hawks would do it, personally. But if we are willing to get rid of Zids at the deadline, I think this is a pretty darn good return:

Brandon Pirri and Kris Versteeg for Jacob Josefson and Marek Zidlicky

I know one of these players wasn't on your list at the beginning of the thread, but hear me out.

Chicago's back end has been a little lackluster for awhile. This shakeup will keep things fresh. Zidlicky is a great defensive mind. Versteeg is a 30 goal scoring type guy, he isn't a super old man, but he will bring you a good amount of offense. Pirri for Josefson will do right by both our teams especially, as Pirri has the potential to be a scoring forward as well and really deserves a permanent spot in the NHL, one which he will earn quickly once DB sees him play.

The Hawks are lacking a 2C/3C kind of guy and with a good checking, defensive minded forward the Hawks can put him in place of Handzus--someone who is nearing retirement with every game he plays. Everyone is a FA in the upcoming year except for Kris Versteeg, who is singed at 2.2M with Florida eating all the rest of his contract which expires in the year after the next NHL season

So for the value, NJ gets two scoring forwards, an older RW and a younger C, while CHI gets to fill the hole at 2C/3C while gaining some defensive depth. Maybe you'll only want to do half this trade, maybe none of it, but I think this trade idea has good potential to satisfy the needs of both teams.

Helps with the D log jam. We can give Gelinas the opportunity to be the PP QB. Bring Larsson up. And helps our offense now and in the future. Also, this would allow us to send Boucher down to Albany to get some experience.

 

[JimEIV]

"You would not have a team to root for if it wasn't for Lou"

Truth...

John McMullen deserves much respect as well.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I've always maintained that Lou's way was unsustainable going back to the early 2000s. I didn't just wake up after a dismal 2013 and decided to attack the man without facts. He's either going to have to adapt (which I believe to be highly unlikely) or he's going to do serious damage to to this org as well as his legacy.

No offense but this is what I picture you as in the early 2000s when we were dominating the league and winning another Cup:

Sitting there as everyone enjoyed a dynasty, telling them how eventually this strategy would fail. How eventually the Devils would miss the playoffs. How eventually Lou would make mistakes.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that the Devils can't sustain making the playoffs every year. We all knew that.

 

[NJDevs26]

Boucher back down to Albany, per TG...fine by me although I wonder what becomes of the Elias line and whether Zubrus goes back to Zajac and Jagr.

 

[Bologna 1]

sensible move without a doubt. now send merrill next and get larsson up to NJ.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Boucher back down to Albany, per TG...fine by me although I wonder what becomes of the Elias line and whether Zubrus goes back to Zajac and Jagr.

I'm happy for the kid. He didn't look out of place and we have a lot to look forward to.

 

[day1devilsfan]

Boucher back down to Albany, per TG...fine by me although I wonder what becomes of the Elias line and whether Zubrus goes back to Zajac and Jagr.

Good for development, but sucks its 3 days before the outdoor game... Feel kinda bad for the guy that he was THAT close to playing in one of those games... Moves incoming??? or does that mean Peter Harrold incoming?!?!?