Gender Equality Month: Women of the TML

[nobody]

I know this is going to be a touchy subject for some people who are bound to get triggered so if that is you please don't derail the thread.



I think it's pretty cool to see that there are a good number of women involved in the TML management, operations, and player development side and it seems like they're holding down fairly significant roles as well. I know the Leafs are one of the leading organizations when it comes to just progressive things especially since Shanahan took over and it's very refreshing to see us transition away from the incompetent old boys club mentality in management to a more progressive one. So far we've experienced a ton of success under the current management compared to where we have been before.

Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[Leafblooded]

Shanny giving back in his old age after taking so much in his youth

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I never get these. You hire the best person for the job......... race, gender, sexual orientation should have zero to do with that.

If the best person for the job happens to be a woman, fantastic, but the push to hire specific genders or races simply to fill quota, or the need to feel progressive (looking more specifically at the NFL here) is something I'll never get.

 

[AvroArrow]

I never get these. You hire the best person for the job......... race, gender, sexual orientation should have zero to do with that.

If the best person for the job happens to be a woman, fantastic, but the push to hire specific genders or races simply to fill quota, or the need to feel progressive (looking more specifically at the NFL here) is something I'll never get.

Right ? It's literally the exact same thing people are fighting against. I believe in giving people equal opportunity, but if one person is clearly more qualified, that person should get the position. I don't care if it's a man/woman/teenager whatever it is, whatever ethnic background they are, the most qualified person.

Ironically, hiring someone just because of their gender or skin color is, sexism/racism

Oh this isn't some rant on why women/ethnic minorities shouldn't have a job or something, I'm all for it. Hell I wouldn't mind an entire staff of all women or minorities, as long as they are the most qualified people for the position.

 

[the squared circle]

Avro and Isaac said it better than I ever could.

I don't think it's wise to ask for thoughts, but anyone disagreeing with you would be 'derailing' the thread. I know you specifically didnt write that, but it seems its always the end result in threads like these.

 

[kule41]

I think you guys missing the point. Hockey has been a white men's club for a long time and in order to get minorities and women involved and qualified you have to hire them (i.e. the intern positions they mentioned at the start of the video). When you have a system that leans toward one demographic you need to try to combat that. If only those with high experience directly related to hockey are hired and if only men were given the opportunity in the past then obviously only they would meet the qualifications. Also nowhere in the video does it mention that these women were hired to fill a quota and are incapable of doing the job they were hired for. It's perfectly okay to celebrate the diversity and it should be applauded, different experiences and thought process bring about new ideas. The Leafs are one of the best teams in the NHL so I think the end product speaks for itself.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I think you guys missing the point. Hockey has been a white men's club for a long time and in order to get minorities and women involved and qualified you have to hire them (i.e. the intern positions they mentioned at the start of the video). When you have a system that leans toward one demographic you need to try to combat that. If only those with high experience directly related to hockey are hired and if only men were given the opportunity in the past then obviously only they would meet the qualifications. Also nowhere in the video does it mention that these women were hired to fill a quota and are incapable of doing the job they were hired for. It's perfectly okay to celebrate the diversity and it should be applauded, different experiences and thought process bring about new ideas. The Leafs are one of the best teams in the NHL so I think the end product speaks for itself.

This.

 

[Tak7]

I think you guys missing the point. Hockey has been a white men's club for a long time and in order to get minorities and women involved and qualified you have to hire them (i.e. the intern positions they mentioned at the start of the video). When you have a system that leans toward one demographic you need to try to combat that. If only those with high experience directly related to hockey are hired and if only men were given the opportunity in the past then obviously only they would meet the qualifications. Also nowhere in the video does it mention that these women were hired to fill a quota and are incapable of doing the job they were hired for. It's perfectly okay to celebrate the diversity and it should be applauded, different experiences and thought process bring about new ideas. The Leafs are one of the best teams in the NHL so I think the end product speaks for itself.

Perfectly put.

Minorities are constantly fighting for respect in a sport that doesn't show enough towards them.

If people's reactions to this or anything other than admiration & celebration, they need to take a very long hard look at themselves in the mirror.

 

[hotpaws]

Hopefully Shanny/Dubas/Keefe step down at the end of the season and are replaced by members of under represented groups .

 

[BlueBaron]

Tricky subject.

I am a firm believer in equality of opportunity and dead against trying to force equality of outcome.

Let's take Barb. She's among the best in the world at what she does. If you don't hire her because she's a woman you should be fired for being an idiot and a sexist pig.

Cassie Campbell wants to be involved with your team. Are you too stupid to see the positive benefits to having Ms Captain Canada hanging around? You're fired you sexist pig.

Bob and Jane both want a job in our accounting department. Bob has more experience and equal qualifications. Bob also has no problem with unlimited overtime. Jane wants to be 9 to 5. Sorry Jane.

Reverse the experience and willingness to work overtime. Sorry Bob

It's really that simple.

 

[kb]

If the best qualified person is hired, no issues.

If anything other than best qualified applicant is the criteria for hiring, then it's just back to discrimination.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I never get these. You hire the best person for the job......... race, gender, sexual orientation should have zero to do with that.

If the best person for the job happens to be a woman, fantastic, but the push to hire specific genders or races simply to fill quota, or the need to feel progressive (looking more specifically at the NFL here) is something I'll never get.

Although this is true, the truth of the fact is...it is deeply ingrained into our society and biases without even realizing it. If you are one who doesn't that amazing, kudos to you and you are setting precedent. Most of the time, what you are saying SHOULD be the case, however, it is quite opposite because we fall back to that old system we are so accustomed to. Similar to how to break bad habits and build good ones, we have to take simple steps to make sure it becomes a norm. There is a reason why such things as the Glass Ceiling and Gender Inequality are very much prevalent in society.

Masai Ujiri is probably one of the people who said it best tbh in a conference our school hosted, I dont care about the color of the skin, gender or anything, I just knew Teresa Resch was the best candidate. Even though she was the first female executive hired in all of NBA, it took people like Masai in a higher up who also went and understood the process to hire the best, because even though it should have been done previously...it really isn't.

Kudos to MLSE for continuing that norm.

 

[francis246]

I never get these. You hire the best person for the job......... race, gender, sexual orientation should have zero to do with that.

If the best person for the job happens to be a woman, fantastic, but the push to hire specific genders or races simply to fill quota, or the need to feel progressive (looking more specifically at the NFL here) is something I'll never get.

It’s not to fill a quota. The reason there is a big push is because often times, coloured coaches and women are more qualified and they are still not even given an opportunity. That is the issue, there is no opportunity for marginalized people to break in to these industries even though they are just as talented (in some cases, even better than) as white men.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

It’s not to fill a quota. The reason there is a big push is because often times, coloured coaches and women are more qualified and they are still not even given an opportunity. That is the issue, there is no opportunity for marginalized people to break in to these industries even though they are just as talented (in some cases, even better than) as white men.

When it comes to quota, notice how I mentioned looking at the NFL specifically.

The rest of your post simply supported mine. Hire the best candidate for the job, regardless of race, gender etc.

 

[al secord]

Equality of outcome. What could go wrong?

 

[al secord]

It’s not to fill a quota. The reason there is a big push is because often times, coloured coaches and women are more qualified and they are still not even given an opportunity. That is the issue, there is no opportunity for marginalized people to break in to these industries even though they are just as talented (in some cases, even better than) as white men.

Are you telling me that in a results oriented industry, the best talent is being held back based on race and gender?

 

[francis246]

When it comes to quota, notice how I mentioned looking at the NFL specifically.

The rest of your post simply supported mine. Hire the best candidate for the job, regardless of race, gender etc.

Are you an NFL fan? Because I am, they absolutely need a quota. Brian Flores had a winning record and was fired and replace by an inferior coach.

Also look at the NFL there are more black players in the league than any other race, yet only a handful of black head coaches? How does it make sense? That is a system that is designed to keep minorities out, the quota at least helps to get minorities in the system and give them a chance.

When it comes to the NHL, I think it’s becoming more progressive. When it comes to management roles specifically you should be interviewing people from different backgrounds to see what they can bring to your organization.

But this old verbiage (hire the most qualified) is deeply rooted with systemically racist undertones. It’s a phrase used to further marginalize these groups and diminish their experiences in trying to break into this industry.

 

[riffle]

Perfectly put.

Minorities are constantly fighting for respect in a sport that doesn't show enough towards them.

If people's reactions to this or anything other than admiration & celebration, they need to take a very long hard look at themselves in the mirror.

I look at how Morgan Freeman feels about "Black History Month" and think it applies here, as well.

Diversity has to be the natural outflow of a process. Starting with the idea that women are automatically excluded is and has always been wrong. It's great "hockey is for everyone" is becoming more of a reality every single day.

For me, I'll never celebrate any groups promotion within hockey, however, I will celebrate that no group is excluded and there is a difference.


From Snopes:

 

[francis246]

Are you telling me that in a results oriented industry, the best talent is being held back based on race and gender?

In the NFL yes. I just gave an example in another post. The Miami dolphins fired a WINNING COACH and hired a shittier coach. It makes no sense, the NFL is actually notorious for this. NHL isn’t that bad, I think the NHL is quite progressive in its approach. NBA is obviously head and shoulders about the rest.

I’ll even go out on a limb and say yes in the NHL as well. I think there are former female hockey players who could probably be better GM’s or executives than some of the ones currently with NHL teams. I’d argue some could also be better coaches as well. But how are we to know if they can’t break in?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

In the NFL yes. I just gave an example in another post. The Miami dolphins fired a WINNING COACH and hired a shittier coach.

You know the new hire is a shittier coach how exactly?

The situation with Flores was odd forsure, but you have no idea how the new coach will do.

 

[hotpaws]

In the NFL yes. I just gave an example in another post. The Miami dolphins fired a WINNING COACH and hired a shittier coach. It makes no sense, the NFL is actually notorious for this. NHL isn’t that bad, I think the NHL is quite progressive in its approach. NBA is obviously head and shoulders about the rest.

I’ll even go out on a limb and say yes in the NHL as well. I think there are former female hockey players who could probably be better GM’s or executives than some of the ones currently with NHL teams. I’d argue some could also be better coaches as well. But how are we to know if they can’t break in?

what the hell does the NFL have to do with the NHL ? the amount of minorities playing in the NHL is fraction compared to the NFL

and no one is holding back minorities from playing hockey , Scarboro had a thriving hockey community that all but dried up and died due to changing demographics and i'm damn sure they would have loved for Ali and his/her friends to have picked up the sport

 

[Isaac Nootin]

and no one is holding back minorities from playing hockey , Scarboro had a thriving hockey community that all but dried up and died due to changing demographics and i'm damn sure they would have loved for Ali and his/her friends to have picked up the sport

I think that has alot to do with the absolute spike in soccer and especially basketball participation. The Raptors have helped the basketball scene explode in the GTA.

Helps that both sports are pennies compared to hockey in regards to fees, equipment etc.

 

[kule41]

I look at how Morgan Freeman feels about "Black History Month" and think it applies here, as well.

Diversity has to be the natural outflow of a process. Starting with the idea that women are automatically excluded is and has always been wrong. It's great "hockey is for everyone" is becoming more of a reality every single day.

For me, I'll never celebrate any groups promotion within hockey, however, I will celebrate that no group is excluded and there is a difference.


From Snopes:

View attachment 526089

Swing and a miss....

You can't say diversity has to be a natural process when related to Hockey or other sports it never has been. Even if you think currently there is no bias against women or minority, do you believe there never was? If so, if a group faced biases how can you say it has to be a natural process now? Don't you think those biases should be combatted first to re-even the playing field?

For those who keep stating that the best people should be hired for the job, how do you know these women aren't? The Leafs celebrating a group within their organization suddenly became a place for people to speak on how we shouldn't hire people that aren't the best qualified? Just celebrate the fact that our organization is doing well on the ice and some people behind the scenes that CONTRIBUTE to the success are being celebrated. This doesn't take away from anyone else or hurt anyone else.

 

[hotpaws]

I think that has alot to do with the absolute spike in soccer and especially basketball participation. The Raptors have helped the basketball scene explode in the GTA.

Helps that both sports are pennies compared to hockey in regards to fees, equipment etc.

Soccer is getting pricey as well at the higher levels and parents can choose whatever sport they want to enroll their children in , i'm just getting tired of hearing how hockey isn't inclusive when there's nothing stopping people from signing there kids up to play the sport .

 

[kule41]

Soccer is getting pricey as well at the higher levels and parents can choose whatever sport they want to enroll their children in , i'm just getting tired of hearing how hockey isn't inclusive when there's nothing stopping people from signing there kids sign up to play the sport .

It isn't as inclusive as you think, Isaac made a good point in terms of cost being a huge factor. When kids start playing sports at a young age its way easier to play soccer and basketball than it is to play hockey. That is a fact. Hockey equipment is expensive and kids grow out of equipment fast.