Gegenpress style of play in soccer into hockey

[cujo1117]

Hi,

Always wondered if the gegenpress or counter pressing german football style of play could be translated into hockey...

"
It just means that the team immediately after losing the ball tries to press against the ball to prevent an oppositional counter and – instead of transition into the ordinary defensive organization, whatever it may be – being able to immediately get into possession again"

 

[StevenF1919]

Hi,

Always wondered if the gegenpress or counter pressing german football style of play could be translated into hockey...

"
It just means that the team immediately after losing the ball tries to press against the ball to prevent an oppositional counter and – instead of transition into the ordinary defensive organization, whatever it may be – being able to immediately get into possession again"

I think the effectiveness of the gegenpress would be lessened due to line changes and the fact that an icing results in an opportunity for the team that lost possession to immediately get the puck back. Being able to ring it around the boards to escape trouble without instantly losing possession is also an option that doesn't exist in soccer.

Would be cool to see someone like Klopp try his hand at coaching in hockey though. Or even better Zdenek Zeman, who's tactics adopted from handball might translate a bit better.

 

[OrangePMD]

Yes, it's called forechecking and backchecking. And in hockey this "transition into ordinary defensive organization" from soccer, it called the neutral zone trap.

 

[Dr Pepper]

There's a word I've never seen before.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I'm a Liverpool fan so I'm familiar with the term. Every team forechecks. Some might be a little more aggressive than others but there isn't the kind of big divide between pressing teams and non-pressing teams that you find in soccer.

Aggressive pressing in soccer is difficult. Theres a lot more space to cover and players can get tired. It usually takes a lot of practice with a conditioning focus and the right personnel to make it work at a high level. Its very easy to press in hockey and players can get a line change when exhausted. I don't think its very comparable.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The risk of counter attack is too immediate in hockey to overload pressure on the puck like that.

 

[Blender]

Yes, it's called forechecking and backchecking. And in hockey this "transition into ordinary defensive organization" from soccer, it called the neutral zone trap.

You actually have this backwards, the neutral zone trap is hockey's version of the gegenpress style. The entire point of the trap is to cause a turnover high up the ice instead of falling back into your zone to defend. This is what gegenpressing is, instead of dropping back into a defensive shape you try and win the ball back high up the pitch.

 

[bland]

Yes, it's called forechecking and backchecking. And in hockey this "transition into ordinary defensive organization" from soccer, it called the neutral zone trap.

Neutral zone trap is passive, pressing is aggressive. Two opposite things.

Sutter's forecheck is about as close as it gets, at least back in LA. Its immediate F1 pressure designed to force the puck to be moved to the half boards where the F2 and F3 converge and try to cause turnovers at the attacking blueline. Rinse, repeat.

 

[TheDoldrums]

You actually have this backwards, the neutral zone trap is hockey's version of the gegenpress style. The entire point of the trap is to cause a turnover high up the ice instead of falling back into your zone to defend. This is what gegenpressing is, instead of dropping back into a defensive shape you try and win the ball back high up the pitch.

But the neutral zone trap results in boring, uneventful hockey while gegenpressing results in high octane, exciting soccer.

The neutral zone trap feels more akin to classic counter attacking tbh, let the other team dominate possession while playing as safe as possibile until they make a mistake to open up a counter.

Letting the opponent do whatever they want in their own zone without any pressure is the opposite of gegenpressing. Guy Boucher is no Jurgen Klopp!

 

[fancy dan]

r u talking bout the Eakins swarm defence ?

 

[Blender]

But the neutral zone trap results in boring, uneventful hockey while gegenpressing results in high octane, exciting soccer.

The neutral zone trap seems more akin to classic counter attacking tbh, let the other team dominate possession and wait for a mistake to counter.

This is a misunderstanding of what the trap is, and unfortunately comes from terrible media narratives about it for years. Especially by Canadian hockey media. The neutral zone trap does not have to result in boring low event hockey, because it all depends on what you do with the puck once you turn it over. Look no further than different Devils teams for good examples, when they had a lot of talent like in 2000-2001 they immediately counter attacked when they got the puck back and scored a ton of goals because they would trap defending players up ice. Some other years when they were low on talent, they were far more selective and dumped the puck in to defend leads quite a bit after gaining possession.

The neutral zone trap was invented as a style of hockey to dominate the flow of the game and keep as much of the play in the opposition end as possible. It could be terribly boring for fans of teams playing against it, but wasn't necessarily so for fans of teams using it to dominate the game.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The main flaw I can see in hockey compared to soccer is that you cannot force the other team to surrender possession again by pushing them out of bounds, the boards ensure that the puck cannot go out of bounds to a certain extent.

If you try to do it, the other team will use the boards to get it out and they can create an odd man rush easily.

 

[Primary Assist]

Neutral zone trap is passive, pressing is aggressive. Two opposite things.

Sutter's forecheck is about as close as it gets, at least back in LA. Its immediate F1 pressure designed to force the puck to be moved to the half boards where the F2 and F3 converge and try to cause turnovers at the attacking blueline. Rinse, repeat.

The 2012-2014 Kings using this style are, and will probably always be, my favorite coached team in NHL history. Just the perfect combination of coaching philosophy mixing with the players assembled on the roster, mixed in with some ungodly goaltending and incredible clutch goal-scoring.

 

[bland]

The main flaw I can see in hockey compared to soccer is that you cannot force the other team to surrender possession again by pushing them out of bounds, the boards ensure that the puck cannot go out of bounds to a certain extent.

If you try to do it, the other team will use the boards to get it out and they can create an odd man rush easily.

In soccer the way to avoid the high press isn't all that different. You are forced into playing long balls over the top, the American football equivalent of a punt. Just playing for yardage.

High skill teams want to play thru the middle and reject the idea of hitting long balls up hoping striker can hold the ball up. Its uncouth and insulting to "the beautiful game".

Actually, this is one of the reasons why Klopp's developing Liverpool teams struggled with lower skill teams, they skipped the high press altogether and just played it over the top. Fewer opportunities to press, fewer turnovers. Now they can pretty much dominate against any style, but this Reds fan dreaded seeing Allardyce coached squads as the opposition as it meant 80 minutes of frustration every game until Big Sam's teams tried to knick them at the end.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Lots of teams do it. It's called a hard forecheck.

Islanders, particularly their fourth line, were very good at it the last few years.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

In soccer the way to avoid the high press isn't all that different. You are forced into playing long balls over the top, the American football equivalent of a punt. Just playing for yardage.

High skill teams want to play thru the middle and reject the idea of hitting long balls up hoping striker can hold the ball up. Its uncouth and insulting to "the beautiful game".

Actually, this is one of the reasons why Klopp's developing Liverpool teams struggled with lower skill teams, they skipped the high press altogether and just played it over the top. Fewer opportunities to press, fewer turnovers. Now they can pretty much dominate against any style, but this Reds fan dreaded seeing Allardyce coached squads as the opposition as it meant 80 minutes of frustration every game until Big Sam's teams tried to knick them at the end.

That’s a good point, I was alluding to the fact that if you are too close to the touch line, the high press can cause you to put it out of bounds accidentally, which accomplishes the pressing team’s mission of regaining possession.

The boards in hockey are incredibly useful, coupled with the fact that it’s played 5 a side.

In that sense, it’s more similar to futsal than actual football. Pitch is smaller and you don’t have as many players that can press.

 

[PROGFAN66]

Hi,

Always wondered if the gegenpress or counter pressing german football style of play could be translated into hockey...

"
It just means that the team immediately after losing the ball tries to press against the ball to prevent an oppositional counter and – instead of transition into the ordinary defensive organization, whatever it may be – being able to immediately get into possession again"

The principles of forechecking, trapping and backchecking in Hockey is to put pressure on the offensive team to regain possession. It's more common tactic in hockey than soccer IMO.

Many teams will also intentionally put the puck deep in their own offensive end just to put a press or put a swarming forecheck on the defensive team to regain possession.

I also think the principles of forechecking or trapping style of play in soccer would be harder as you can simply just kick the ball over the whole defense and the playing surface is a lot larger than hockey. In addition, Soccer does not have the icing rule as well which penalizes clearing on full strength play.

 

[Anglesmith]

This is actually a philosophy that Darryl Sutter employs. If you don't have the puck, your job is to help get it back as quickly as possible.

That said, disorganized swarming is counter to this goal, because it provides the opposition with large parts of the ice where they can chip the puck behind and retain possession.