TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part XIII -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[David Dennison]

Lol anyone who defends the show at all probably fits that description for you, no matter how correct they are. Its also very irrelevant when that is not at all what I said. The fact that you guys conflate defense of the show to praising the ground D and D walk on is telling on yourself in a big way.

Your side has no nuance in their criticism, but I can like the story/show the last few seasons but not the directors? But your are the straw-man because I said it first.

 

[The Shadow]

(as HBO rakes in record ratings)

That has nothing to do with quality of a product.

 

[K Fleur]

That has nothing to do with quality of a product.

Ratings, good or bad, do have something to do with the quality of a product.

High ratings don’t automatically mean a show is good. I think that is what you’re trying to say atleast.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Your side has no nuance in their criticism, but I can like the story/show the last few seasons but not the directors? But your are the straw-man because I said it first.

Word salad aside, yes you can easily have enjoyed the show without also outright praising the showrunners, that's a weird one. I don't think they've been perfect or great by any stretch, I still enjoy the overall product.

The other part is just a trend I've noticed. For example, with episode 3, there were many valid criticisms, but the angriest did seem to come from people who thought the NK was the last villain, or people who thought someone else would kill the NK, or even people who wanted the walkers to win(lol) or thought they would. Or like I've said with season 5, where it was probably the worst season of the show and there were many things to criticize yet the greatest anger came over Stannis.

 

[David Dennison]

Word salad aside, yes you can easily have enjoyed the show without also outright praising the showrunners, that's a weird one. I don't think they've been perfect or great by any stretch, I still enjoy the overall product.

The other part is just a trend I've noticed. For example, with episode 3, there were many valid criticisms, but the angriest did seem to come from people who thought the NK was the last villain, or people who thought someone else would kill the NK, or even people who wanted the walkers to win(lol) or thought they would. Or like I've said with season 5, where it was probably the worst season of the show and there were many things to criticize yet the greatest anger came over Stannis.

Word salad aside, I'm going to make up criticisms and tell you why those criticisms are wrong.

If only there was a term to describe that...

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Word salad aside, I'm going to make up criticisms and tell you why those criticisms are wrong.

If only there was a term to describe that...

The word salad joke worked for me because your other post made no actual sense. If English isnt your language I apologize. It just doesn't really work when my post was actually coherent. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, though, so thank you.

And what criticisms are made up?

 

[RandV]

If you don't think there are people mad because their own fan fiction is turning out to be false, I dont know what to tell you. This isnt even a new development, it's been going on since season 5.

A strawman is a strawman. There are many reasons someone can be upset/disappointed/critical of a creative media. Someone on social media came up with the idea that people are mad because their own fan fiction ideas' didn't pan out and now you see that concept being parroted with broad strokes. It's armchair psychology that not only refutes what a person is saying but finds a way to belittle them at the same time. This really isn't anything new and personally I find it pretty annoying.

 

[David Dennison]

The word salad joke worked for me because your other post made no actual sense. If English isnt your language I apologize. It just doesn't really work when my post was actually coherent. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, though, so thank you.

And what criticisms are made up?

The other part is just a trend I've noticed. For example, with episode 3, there were many valid criticisms, but the angriest did seem to come from people who thought the NK was the last villain, or people who thought someone else would kill the NK, or even people who wanted the walkers to win(lol) or thought they would.

Just a trend I've been noticing...

Someone said something stupid that one time on the internet, so I will argue with that person even though they aren't here right now. But they speak for everyone who levys criticism at the story.

But there are legitimate criticisms, but I am gonna choose to argue with my imaginary trendline because I am right. Both sides, but their side is wrong and here is why they are dumb.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

A strawman is a strawman. There are many reasons someone can be upset/disappointed/critical of a creative media. Someone on social media came up with the idea that people are mad because their own fan fiction ideas' didn't pan out and now you see that concept being parroted with broad strokes. It's armchair psychology that not only refutes what a person is saying but finds a way to belittle them at the same time. This really isn't anything new and personally I find it pretty annoying.

It's not a strawman. Of course people can be critical for many reasons, and they are, but this too is a thing that happens and it happens with just about anything where fans can speculate where it goes from there. It makes sense, if your expectations are that specific, theres only one way to live up to them. I even said before that I was pleasantly surprised that this kind of thing didnt seem to happen with Avengers: Endgame.

As for belittling people, if my last few posts come off as belittling you might just be telling on yourself. In this exchange I haven't told anyone that they're doing this, I merely said that its a thing that happens, which it is. The guy I'm arguing with completely denies this, hence the discussion.

 

[Whiplash27]

(as HBO rakes in record ratings)

They could have put out anything at this point and it would get record ratings. It's the most popular show in the world, you honestly think that people won't tune in to see how it ends no matter how poorly written it is? Add in the huge budget and even a poorly written turd could at least be entertaining if you don't think about it critically.

Not even close to a massive failure. People brigading and review bombing IMDb doesn’t make it a massive failure. It makes r/Freefolk (which certain posters just copy and paste stuff from there over here) a bunch of losers.

Even critics are panning what we've seen so far. The writing is horrid and even casual fans are noticing the inconsistencies. No one I've talked to in real life thinks that the writing has been good in E3 & E4. People are hoping that the last two episodes can make up for it, but it looks rushed and what we saw with the WW's being dispatched so easily, characters acting in ways that contrary to their established story arcs, and things happening for the sake of subverting expectations are leading to a disappointing conclusion. If the ending is poor it will hurt the franchise which is $$$$ to HBO who wants to keep it going for the foreseeable future via spinoffs.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Word salad aside, yes you can easily have enjoyed the show without also outright praising the showrunners, that's a weird one. I don't think they've been perfect or great by any stretch, I still enjoy the overall product.

The other part is just a trend I've noticed. For example, with episode 3, there were many valid criticisms, but the angriest did seem to come from people who thought the NK was the last villain, or people who thought someone else would kill the NK, or even people who wanted the walkers to win(lol) or thought they would. Or like I've said with season 5, where it was probably the worst season of the show and there were many things to criticize yet the greatest anger came over Stannis.

Plenty of things to criticize in episode 4 too, but most people complained about Ghost not getting a pet. I didn’t see Euron complaints really take over until Wednesday.

Why I can’t take a lot of this seriously. Especially since it’s wholesale just copy pasta from r/Freefolk.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Just a trend I've been noticing...

Someone said something stupid that one time on the internet, so I will argue with that person even though they aren't here right now. But they speak for everyone who levys criticism at the story.

But there are legitimate criticisms, but I am gonna choose to argue with my imaginary trendline because I am right. Both sides, but their side is wrong and here is why they are dumb.

Apparently I'm not remotely the first person to notice it, according to the post above yours. The denials are funny, especially since these threads are littered with them and have been for years. Like I said about Stannis, it was massive blowback. There wasn't only one guy on the internet mad online about him burning Shireen or just losing in general, it was a whole hive. Theres still a guy posting in the book thread, three years later, who's still mad about it.

I've never said this about you directly but you seem very sensitive to it. Just an observation.

 

[David Dennison]

Apparently I'm not remotely the first person to notice it, according to the post above yours. The denials are funny, especially since these threads are littered with them and have been for years. Like I said about Stannis, it was massive blowback. There wasn't only one guy on the internet mad online about him burning Shireen or just losing in general, it was a whole hive. Theres still a guy posting in the book thread, three years later, who's still mad about it.

I've never said this about you directly but you seem very sensitive to it. Just an observation.

You keep commenting on reactions to the show, not the show itself. That is fanboyism, much like a lot of the stupid criticism is hater-ism.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

You keep commenting on reactions to the show, not the show itself. That is fanboyism, much like a lot of the stupid criticism is hater-ism.

I comment on the show but I also mainly enjoy it in real time and don't go too far with speculation, so not much I wanna talk about. It's a big reason I mainly avoided this place the last little bit. Now I'm just kind of bored lol.

 

[Emperoreddy]

If you have unique and well thought out critical assessments of the show, people are free to share them.

But if all you have to provide to the discourse is “lazy writing” and insults for anyone enjoying the show, don’t be shocked when people ignore and mock you.

This isn’t reddit. You can’t karma whore here.

 

[Superlative Soup]

D&D said they're going to be very drunk and far away from the internet when the finale airs.

They already know how poorly it is going to be received.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

D&D said they're going to be very drunk and far away from the internet when the finale airs.

They already know how poorly it is going to be received.

Not the best sign to come out and say this, but that was inevitable. There's such a range of opinions, almost alliances, on the show that there was almost no way they could ever hope to satisfy everyone or even a strong majority.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The mere implication that Mad Queen Dany was happening pissed Dany fans. If they go through with it the reaction will worse.

I don’t think a lot of casual fans are prepared for the reality that their favorite character will not live happily ever after as King or Queen.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Maybe film and television is simply not meant to be discussed as in-depth as we do in today’s society.

I don’t want this to be a free pass or excuse for GoT, because there were PLENTY of problems with 803 & 804. Many of the writing decisions have been strange at best. Some have been immersion-breaking for me and the writers/directors/D&D deserve a lot of the criticism they’re getting.

But it’s very difficult to have an excellently written story in TV or film. There are problems with all of my favorite movies and shows, and probably yours too. I think the moment discussion and critical analysis reaches a certain point for this stuff you’re going to be left with the shitty realization that at the end of the day we’re arguing about entertainment and it’s inherently going to be flawed.

Some people can’t get past the flaws and therefore can’t enjoy the entertainment as much as they want to. Some excuse the flaws, or disagree with their significance, and do enjoy the entertainment. Just seems like a lot of people on opposite sides of the fence yelling at each other and no minds are being changed

 

[David Dennison]

If you have unique and well thought out critical assessments of the show, people are free to share them.

But if all you have to provide to the discourse is “lazy writing” and insults for anyone enjoying the show, don’t be shocked when people ignore and mock you.

This isn’t reddit. You can’t karma ****e here.

The earlier seasons are a tight web of interweaving storylines of many characters from many different factions in a highly detailed world. This season is all preparing for battle, a battle or talking about what happened in a battle between 2 factions, all taking place in Winterfell, KL or a body of water. Did there need to be some consolidation in the story? Probably. Does that make the story good? No it does not.

To flip it, what has made this season 'good'?

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think the rise of people taking things like Cinemasins 100% seriously has made folks more nitpicky.

Plus we are currently in the middle of an outrage culture movement and an anti-fan thing (people being proud of the fact they don’t like something that is popular.)

The internet is a weird place, but I do think we are losing the ability to just sit back and enjoy entertainment warts and all.

There should be a middle ground, but I rarely see it. Most fanbases seem to want to be miserable. The Marvel community is one of the few that don’t seem to lose their minds like this.

 

[Osprey]

For starters, how would she find him? With a GPS?

1. The NK and his army weren't exactly hard to spot.
2. It's a good assumption that they would've been between Winterfell and where they broke through the wall.
3. The good guys knew that they'd reach them before the dawn.
4. Bran can warg into ravens and scout ahead to find them. Call it the Bran Positioning System, cousin to GPS .

There's a bit of a difference between Arya sneaking around in her own home and her somehow getting past the entire army of the dead to assassinate the NK, assuming he's even on the ground to begin with.

I wasn't talking about sneaking through the library, but about sneaking past the crowd in the Godswood, which really wasn't a set of circumstances or odds that we haven't seen the NK in plenty of times before. Do a Google Image search on the NK and tell me if the odds and vulnerability of the NK at various other points in the show look all that different than the circumstances in the Godwood. The dragon would be a bit of a problem, I'll grant, but there may've times that he wasn't on it and Daenerys had two dragons to deal with it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The earlier seasons are a tight web of interweaving storylines of many characters from many different factions in a highly detailed world. This season is all preparing for battle, a battle or talking about what happened in a battle between 2 factions, all taking place in Winterfell, KL or a body of water. Did there need to be some consolidation in the story? Probably. Does that make the story good? No it does not.

To flip it, what has made this season 'good'?

You are basically upset we are in act 3 then. The early seasons needed to be what they were to establish the setting, the characters, and their motivations. It was the beginning of their arcs.

Everything was the ground work to the characters finally coming together to fight these battles and wars that have been teased and discussed for years.

Is some of it being rushed and cut down to size too much to fill in these shorter seasons? Absolutely, but it was something that needed to happen to conclude this story.

The reason we don’t have the final books by GRRMs own admission is that it has gotten too big. Too many characters doing too many separate things. That’s fine for act 1 and 2, but as you approach the climax these things need to either resolve or start to connect together.

Plenty of hiccups. Arya’s story stands out the most as being extra clumsy and just getting her Braavos stuff resolved so she can reenter the main narrative.

But they solved and brought other narratives together in satisfying ways as well. Getting Dany our or Mereen worked. Jon’s arc has worked. I could keep going.

Now it’s the climax and the show built up for that climax to be battles. Not weddings. How we got here could have been better, but by and large the story is where it is supposed to be.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Maybe film and television is simply not meant to be discussed as in-depth as we do in today’s society.

I don’t want this to be a free pass or excuse for GoT, because there were PLENTY of problems with 803 & 804. Many of the writing decisions have been strange at best. Some have been immersion-breaking for me and the writers/directors/D&D deserve a lot of the criticism they’re getting.

But it’s very difficult to have an excellently written story in TV or film. There are problems with all of my favorite movies and shows, and probably yours too. I think the moment discussion and critical analysis reaches a certain point for this stuff you’re going to be left with the ****ty realization that at the end of the day we’re arguing about entertainment and it’s inherently going to be flawed.

Some people can’t get past the flaws and therefore can’t enjoy the entertainment as much as they want to. Some excuse the flaws, or disagree with their significance, and do enjoy the entertainment. Just seems like a lot of people on opposite sides of the fence yelling at each other and no minds are being changed

I 100% agree with this.

People have gotten so particular, looking for ‘lazy writing’, ‘plot holes’ and the like in every show. Nobody seems to be able to enjoy shows without going too deep into it.

No show is going to have perfect writing , it’s impossible. If you are constantly looking for something to be not perfect you will always find it.

 

[The Shadow]

What has made people upset I think is how unrealistic episode 3 was.

A show that people loved because characters could die at any moment was exciting. Then an epic battle happens and our favourite characters survive with barely a scratch

Doesn’t add up

I saw Brienne dying about 4 times in episode 3 but she was fine the next day enough to be stacking up with 1 armed Jamie

At least half the characters should have died and people could buy that and it would have made sense. That’s what they’ve fed us since day 1