GDT: Game 6- Blues @ Flames

[Linkens Mastery]

Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Tonight Berube is mixing the lines and defense up. With some pretty key demotions. Will it work? or will it make us worse? we shall see tonight.

Saad-Thomas-Kyrou
Buch-Schenn-Kapanen
Torop-Sunny-Blais
Hayes-Neighbours

Leddy-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Scandella-Bortuzzo
Perunovich

Hofer​

Click to read more...

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Hayes has looked like a boat anchor so far this season, no surprise he's getting dropped. Benching Vrana is f***ing stupid though, he's one of the few players on this team that can actually score, and what we need right now is to score.

 

[Majorityof1]

Wow, Vrana scratched. I knew Berube didn't like him but scratching over Neighbours is a head scratcher. And Hayes demoted to 4th too. The Vrana-Hayes line was bad last game but was one of the best parts of the first few games.

On D, rolling 7 with Perunovich makes sense but is not a long term strategy. If he is going to fit long term, we need to be able to roll 6 D with him.

 

[Stealth JD]

2 bad teams? 9pm Eastern, start time? Benching their leading scorer?

Enjoy the shitshow, fellas. I'll check the box-score in the morning.

 

[BlueDream]

Jesus that’s an ugly lineup. I hate going 11/7 because then the 4th line always sucks and has no flow to it, and we struggle even more if we can’t roll 4 lines.

Also Toro and Sunny on the 3rd line, lol.

Oh well. Lose big tonight!

 

[Brian39]

I have an unbelievably hard time looking at this team through 5 games and thinking that Vrana has been the worst forward out there. He's been on the ice for 1 total goal against this year and last game the straw that broke the camel's back for Berube was an interference penalty where Vrana was trying to avoid going offside. It was his first penalty of the year.

But even assuming that he has been the 'worst' overall forward, I have an even more difficult time believing that he is the best scratch candidate for a team who is massively struggling to get shots, score, or do anything resembling competency on the powerplay. He is currently 2nd on the team in even strength scoring despite being 12th among forwards in even strength TOI per game.

We're declining to put him with a skilled playmaker at even strength and we're refusing to try him on the top PP unit even though it has been absolutely awful and lacking a left hand shot one time option.

I don't get it.

 

[PJJJP]

Idk why Vrana is benched tbh. He's an offensive player and we stuck him with Hayes lol and Blais lol.

 

[Stealth JD]

Vrana may have been late to a meeting, or broke a team rule…not necessarily a response to his on-ice performance. Or maybe Army instructed Berube to start the tank!

 

[Majorityof1]

Vrana may have been late to a meeting, or broke a team rule…not necessarily a response to his on-ice performance. Or maybe Army instructed Berube to start the tank!

Was there a meeting in the middle of the last game while Vrana was in the penalty box? Player gets far less shifts and TOI than linemates or even 4th line players, player takes penalty, player not given another shift after that missing several shifts, player scratched next game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or conspiracy theorist to see what's going on.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

i think we need to be clear that vrana benching doesn't mean that berube thinks he is our worst forward. it means, i think, that berube feels like vrana has much more to give and he is trying to get his attention because he doesn't feel that his message is getting through to him. so yes, his talent will be missed, but his talent is wasted if he isn't going to work and that is what berube is trying to get across. because ultimately, reinstalling our culture (as a hard-working team that is tough to play against) is far more important than the score of tonight's game.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Wow, that lineup. Yikes.

I’m all for getting Perunovich in there but there’s at least 5-6 forwards I’d sit before Vrana. It’s known Vrana isn’t great defensively but he hasn’t been horrible IMO. Clearly Berube isn’t a fan though.

Hopefully Hofer has a better game. We need him to at least be better than Greiss was last season. He has the talent.

Calgary is certainly beatable. They’re also a mess.

Was there a meeting in the middle of the last game while Vrana was in the penalty box? Player gets far less shifts and TOI than linemates or even 4th line players, player takes penalty, player not given another shift after that missing several shifts, player scratched next game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or conspiracy theorist to see what's going on.

Very true.

Or just read Berube’s comments all over social media calling out Vrana, saying he needs to be better.

Can’t say I agree with Berube here though. Vrana hasn’t been bad IMO.

 

[PocketNines]

3 general categories so far

HOFer = Outstanding

OOFer = Bad (eg, Arizona game)

Just Joel = Average

 

[Majorityof1]

i think we need to be clear that vrana benching doesn't mean that berube thinks he is our worst forward. it means, i think, that berube feels like vrana has much more to give and he is trying to get his attention because he doesn't feel that his message is getting through to him. so yes, his talent will be missed, but his talent is wasted if he isn't going to work and that is what berube is trying to get across. because ultimately, reinstalling our culture (as a hard-working team that is tough to play against) is far more important than the score of tonight's game.

But he is not the only forward with more to give. Its unfair to give Kapanen a pass when the only game he gave a damn was against his former team. Only lesson Vrana learned is he should have bribed the schedulers to schedule the Caps sooner. Or he should have lived with the captain and gotten the Jake Neighbours free pass.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

But he is not the only forward with more to give. Its unfair to give Kapanen a pass when the only game he gave a damn was against his former team. Only lesson Vrana learned is he should have bribed the schedulers to schedule the Caps sooner. Or he should have lived with the captain and gotten the Jake Neighbours free pass.

i wouldn't object to sitting kap too, but there isn't anyone else to put in lineup because alexndrov hasn't been good. this is problem with being so crappy is that we have more guys we want to replace than people who deserve to go in.

as for neighbours, i don't think effort is issue. and i see progress from him, albeit not at pace that i would like. if you want to argue that he should be in springfield i would listen.

Wow, that lineup. Yikes.

I’m all for getting Perunovich in there but there’s at least 5-6 forwards I’d sit before Vrana. It’s known Vrana isn’t great defensively but he hasn’t been horrible IMO. Clearly Berube isn’t a fan though...

Or just read Berube’s comments all over social media calling out Vrana, saying he needs to be better.

Can’t say I agree with Berube here though. Vrana hasn’t been bad IMO.

with all due respect (because you are someone i respect), but did you watch last game? vrana was bad. like we would have been better to have just dressed 17 skaters bad. did nothing positive (stat-wise), took a penalty, and got caved in while out there (both xGA and scoring chances were like 8-1 against when he was on ice). he had had good games, even this season, but last one he dogged it and berube is sending a message.

 

[shpongle falls]

Excited to see Hofer and Perunovich tonight.

I still love Chief but his decisions irritates the hell out of me sometimes lol. I hope they can get win streak going here.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I like Berube, but, I'm not exactly loving his decisions so far this year in regards to players ice time. Whether Vrana is coasting or not, he's tied for 2nd on the scoresheet with Kyrou right behind Thomas while he's being played less minutes than our 4th line. He's also our best trade piece (outside of Buch if Buch wants to leave).

 

[BlueOil]

vrana might have 3 points in 5 games on a weak offensive team but he's really only had a couple of good shifts (and pretty much only in the Arizona game) to my eye test. lots of floating and disengaged play, overplaying the puck and losing it, and just being out of sync with his line mates.

the penalty looks more innocent on the replay, but if you watch it from the original angle, it's an obvious and stupid interference call. i can see why it led to a benching and scratch when it killed a powerplay chance.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I like Berube, but, I'm not exactly loving his decisions so far this year in regards to players ice time. Whether Vrana is coasting or not, he's tied for 2nd on the scoresheet with Kyrou right behind Thomas while he's being played less minutes than our 4th line. He's also our best trade piece (outside of Buch if Buch wants to leave).

what message does it say to team when guy like vrana doesn't put forth the effort and keeps getting ice time? doesn't berube owe it to the guys who are working to not tolerate crappy effort from one of their teammates who thinks he can coast bc he is supremely talented?

 

[Spektre]

Berube has officially become a derelict.

Vrana has the lowest ice time per game @ 12.22 minutes of all skaters.
Yet he is tied for 2nd in points and is first in +/-.

Unless there's some off ice issue that's not public, Berube is a dumb f***.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Berube has officially become a derelict.

Vrana has the lowest ice time per game @ 12.22 minutes per game of all skaters.
Yet he is tied for 2nd in points and is first in +/-.

Unless there's some off ice issue that's not public, Berube is a dumb f***.

have you been watching? did you see the last game? either way, this is an incredibly wrong post but if you haven't been watching that at least somewhat excuses it.

 

[Brian39]

with all due respect (because you are someone i respect), but did you watch last game? vrana was bad. like we would have been better to have just dressed 17 skaters bad. did nothing positive (stat-wise), took a penalty, and got caved in while out there (both xGA and scoring chances were like 8-1 against when he was on ice). he had had good games, even this season, but last one he dogged it and berube is sending a message.

I watched Frozen Frenzy on Tuesday and only half watched the Blues. I knew Vrana got benched, so when I watched this game last night I tried to specifically watch Vrana. He didn't grade well to me, but neither did most of our forward group. And frankly, basically all of his issues were a failure to push offense from our own zone rather than poor defense or lazy plays.

He didn't get caved in nearly as bad as you are suggesting though (even though you are 100% right that he generated basically nothing). Scoring chances were 2-1 for the Jets and high danger chances were 0-0 with Vrana on the ice at both even strength and 5 on 5. He was the only forward on the team who wasn't out there for a high danger chance against at even strength. His xGA for the night at 5 on 5 was .23, which translated to 1.85 per 60. The total was lowest on the team and the per 60 was dead middle of the pack for our forwards even though his O-Zone start rate was the most defensive oriented on the team. Kap was at 3.49 while Hayes was at 2.49 on the night for comparison. His ratios sucked because he generated absolutely nothing.

The only high danger chance against with Vrana on the ice was a shorthanded breakaway where Vrana was the least culpable Blue on the ice. Hayes dumps the puck in, Vrana goes to the net front, Kap misses the puck on the wall down low, Saad misses the puck along the wall at the top of the circle, then Faulk loses a battle at the point and the puck is chipped by him at the blue line. Saad completely quits on the play (stands upright and takes a few lazy beer league backcheck strides) and Vrana is the only forward who gets on his horse to back check. He beats Faulk back and is the man checking the trailing Jets player:



As a goalie, I'm probably biased toward supporting the full ice backcheck from the F2 on a play like this, but it really rubs me the wrong way to say a guy isn't trying when he makes a 175 foot backcheck like this while the two guys who fail to stop a puck rimming along the boards can't be bothered to even pretend to get back into the play. Saad's a veteran and the level of quit on that play after his own mistake is egregious.

We started him in the D zone all game. I get that everyone was skewing toward D zone starts, but Vrana got literally zero O zone shift starts while Neighbours, Sunny and Blais got multiple. Vrana got 1 O zone faceoff while that trio got 4+. From the get go, we played Vrana in a 4th line grinder role on Tuesday. He wasn't good in that role, but he also didn't make any glaring defensive lapses. I saw a fish out of water, not a guy who wasn't trying.

My main takeaway was that Vrana shouldn't be used like a 4th liner. I didn't really need to see him in that role to know that, but Tuesday very much confirmed it. I was very pleased with his backcheck on that shorthanded break, I didn't think his penalty was effort/discipline related, and I thought Hayes and Kap were both noticeably worse defensively.

 

[Spektre]

have you been watching? did you see the last game? either way, this is an incredibly wrong post but if you haven't been watching that at least somewhat excuses it.

It's really going to help getting assets back for Vrana when he doesn't play.

Did you read my post? He plays 12 minutes per game, the lowest of any skater on the team. How much can you watch him play when he's barely on the ice all game??? He still has more points than 16 guys on the team.

There's literally 1 player on the team with more points....1.. not like 7 or 8 or 10.... 1

 

[Majorityof1]

what message does it say to team when guy like vrana doesn't put forth the effort and keeps getting ice time? doesn't berube owe it to the guys who are working to not tolerate crappy effort from one of their teammates who thinks he can coast bc he is supremely talented?

What message does it send when you only bench one guy on 12 and he is one of only 7 guys with a goal, tied for 2nd in points, 4th in shots on goal, 8th in CF%, f***ing first in GF%, ahead of 4 players in xGF%, and 7th in SCF%. There is absolutely zero non-biased metrics you can point to that say he deserves to be scratched. If your eye test is telling you he is the worst player, get your eyes checked. Effort is so damn subjective. This is a results driven league. If a player is getting results, you don't bench them.

 

[Spektre]

What message does it send when you only bench one guy on 12 and he is one of only 7 guys with a goal, tied for 2nd in points, 4th in shots on goal, 8th in CF%, f***ing first in GF%, ahead of 4 players in xGF%, and 7th in SCF%. There is absolutely zero non-biased metrics you can point to that say he deserves to be scratched. If your eye test is telling you he is the worst player, get your eyes checked. Effort is so damn subjective. This is a results driven league. If a player is getting results, you don't bench them.

For anyone ragging on Vrana, holy shit balls, where is all the hate for the rest of flunkies wearing a Blues sweater?

How does Schenn escape criticism? The guy does nothing but skate around and screw up offense.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

What message does it send when you only bench one guy on 12 and he is one of only 7 guys with a goal, tied for 2nd in points, 4th in shots on goal, 8th in CF%, f***ing first in GF%, ahead of 4 players in xGF%, and 7th in SCF%. There is absolutely zero non-biased metrics you can point to that say he deserves to be scratched. If your eye test is telling you he is the worst player, get your eyes checked. Effort is so damn subjective. This is a results driven league. If a player is getting results, you don't bench them.

hayes and sunny can't skate. torpo has no offensive instincts. benching any of them ain't gonna change that. vrana has more to give, so that is why he is being singled out. i can't believe that berube and i are the only 2 people who think this.