Post-Game Talk: Game #52: Canucks lose 2-1 to the Predators - Prospal, please help us...or retire...

[Drop the Sopel]

Even with the addition of a top-6 forward, there just isn't enough scoring depth in the lineup to compete against the Sharks, Kings and Hawks.

There aren't any realistic ways you're going to re-work the roster and be a favourite against juggernauts like Chicago and Anaheim. With that said, the addition of a good offensive player very well could be enough to beat any team in a 7 game series.

People need to realize, even if the Canucks do nothing, they're still only about a 70-30 underdog to a team like Chicago in a 1st rd matchup. All this talk about them not standing a chance is silly.

I also don't have any problem with a Higgins, Santorelli, Hansen 3rd line. Just because a player has struggled to produce in playoffs past, doesn't mean they're more likely to struggle in future playoff games. More often than not, there are wild swings in playoff production when you look at players career numbers - this is just a bi-product of such tiny sample sizes. In short, I would be just as confident in Higgins ability to score in the playoffs as other guys with comparable regular season track records...

 

[thepuckmonster]

Yeah, terrible example and the Sharks are one of the teams that the Canucks will have to go through. We're not talking about whether its a bad example. The reality is, the Sharks are able to do that.

The Kings can ice a lineup of Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Stoll down the middle if they wanted to. Last year with the addition of Penner, they were pretty much able to ice a a first line and 2 second lines at times. This is the depth level the Canucks will have to reach to compete.

Carter plays wing in LA and Stoll is pretty much an average third liner. This is a case of overrating other teams' assets and undervaluing our own because of injury and system changes.

Yeah we will have to go the San Jose probably but as someone pointed out, Pavelski is really on their second line. He's a 'third liner' on paper only.

 

[Royal Canuck]

Prospal took one look at our team and was like "**** that I'm out"

I kid I kid.

 

[leftwinglockdown]

Carter plays wing in LA and Stoll is pretty much an average third liner. This is a case of overrating other teams' assets and undervaluing our own because of injury and system changes.

Yeah we will have to go the San Jose probably but as someone pointed out, Pavelski is really on their second line. He's a 'third liner' on paper only.

You're telling me things like I don't know them. I know Stoll is average. I know Carter plays wing but how many times have lineups been switched up in the playoffs on a game to game basis? The Kings can pick between guys like Clifford, King, Nolan, Toffoli, Vey to fill their bottom lines.

And I am definitely not undervaluing our own assets. You tell me, who will score for us in the playoffs? Who has proven they can score in the playoffs? Kesler and that's it. First lines are more often than not shutdown in the postseason and the other lines have to come through. That is the depth that is required to win a championship. I believe we don't have that.

And I am agreeing that Pavelski is not a third liner but there are teams in this league that are able to put guys like that on the 3rd line.

 

[thepuckmonster]

You're telling me things like I don't know them. I know Stoll is average. I know Carter plays wing but how many times have lineups been switched up in the playoffs on a game to game basis? The Kings can pick between guys like Clifford, King, Nolan, Toffoli, Vey to fill their bottom lines.

And I am definitely not undervaluing our own assets. You tell me, who will score for us in the playoffs? Who has proven they can score in the playoffs? Kesler and that's it. First lines are more often than not shutdown in the postseason and the other lines have to come through. That is the depth that is required to win a championship. I believe we don't have that.

And I am agreeing that Pavelski is not a third liner but there are teams in this league that are able to put guys like that on the 3rd line.

By saying Kesler is the only forward proven to score in the post season is just blatant ignorance of actual fact. The Sedins have a higher PPG in the post season (also higher than the much lauded Toews and Kane). The fact that they still manage to score at a PPG pace in the post-season while faces top competition is even more impressive. Kesler has one good series to his name: Nashville. And that was because Weber and Suter were put up against the twins leaving Kesler to feast on their weaker bottom 4 defenders. Acting like he's Captain Playoffs is just wrong.

It's not like Vancouver only attracts ****** playoffs players and that's why our post-seasons have been mediocre in scoring. It's actually much more probable that it was Vigneault's system that can't hold up in tighter checking games where the space to make plays is limited. I think the fact that his system was so reliant on long stretch passes only emphasizes this because you're just not going to be able to make 80 foot passes in the playoffs on a regular basis. How about we wait and see what Tortorella does with this team in the post-season before condemning the whole team as playoffs failures? He got NYR to the second round twice in a row with lesser talent and his teams put up a good fight.

 

[Wetcoaster]

By saying Kesler is the only forward proven to score in the post season is just blantent ignorance of actual fact. The Sedins have a higher PPG in the post season (also higher than the much lauded Toews and Kane). The fact that they still manage to score at a PPG pace in the post-season while faces top competition is even more impressive. Kesler has one good series to his name: Nashville. And that was because Weber and Suter were put up against the twins leaving Kesler to feast on their weaker bottom 4 defenders. Acting like he's Captain Playoffs is just wrong.

No, sir. This is the Wetcoast, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

 

[Zombotron]

How about we wait and see what Tortorella does with this team in the post-season before condemning the whole team as playoffs failures? He got NYR to the second round twice in a row with lesser talent and his teams put up a good fight.

Kreider / Richards / Gaborik
Boyle / Anisimov / Callahan
Fedotenko / Stepan / Hagelin
Prust / Rupp / John Mitchell

Staal / Girardi
Del Zotto / McDonagh
Stralman / Bickel

Lundqvist

--------------

They almost made the Finals!

 

[Wetcoaster]

ICYMI Sully's postgame presser

 

[leftwinglockdown]

By saying Kesler is the only forward proven to score in the post season is just blatant ignorance of actual fact. The Sedins have a higher PPG in the post season (also higher than the much lauded Toews and Kane). The fact that they still manage to score at a PPG pace in the post-season while faces top competition is even more impressive. Kesler has one good series to his name: Nashville. And that was because Weber and Suter were put up against the twins leaving Kesler to feast on their weaker bottom 4 defenders. Acting like he's Captain Playoffs is just wrong.

It's not like Vancouver only attracts ****** playoffs players and that's why our post-seasons have been mediocre in scoring. It's actually much more probable that it was Vigneault's system that can't hold up in tighter checking games where the space to make plays is limited. I think the fact that his system was so reliant on long stretch passes only emphasizes this because you're just not going to be able to make 80 foot passes in the playoffs on a regular basis. How about we wait and see what Tortorella does with this team in the post-season before condemning the whole team as playoffs failures? He got NYR to the second round twice in a row with lesser talent and his teams put up a good fight.

I'm not saying the Sedins don't score. I know they have a higher p/g average than Toews and Kane but I'm saying the trend for winning teams is contribution throughout the rest of the lineup which I don't believe we have. Kesler is definitely not a god (I think he's a black hole most of the time) but what other pieces in the lineup can we rely on to score when the Sedins can't? I am actually agreeing with you that Kesler scores because the Sedins draw the tougher defensive matchups but do we have anyone else to take advantage of that? The answer to me is a definite no.

As to your argument over systems. Vigneault definitely employed a style that was trending out of the playoffs thanks to Boston and LA but the system has already changed. Tortorella has already implemented his system, he's already established the style the team will play in the playoffs. This team is already using shorter passes and are already playing tighter in the defensive zone. We're at the 52 game mark here, I don't see us just suddenly flipping a switch and turning everything up to another level. At this point its about finishing and we're just not doing that.

This team cannot survive without the top line finishing its chances. Its just not deep enough. We don't have anyone in the bottom 2 lines who can move up and carry the scoring for a little while. Many of the other teams do. I'm not saying I count them out because there's always a chance but this year was clearly going to be a transition-like year and the team is definitely waiting on some players from the farm to bolster the bottom 2 lines.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I'm not saying the Sedins don't score. I know they have a higher p/g average than Toews and Kane but I'm saying the trend for winning teams is contribution throughout the rest of the lineup which I don't believe we have. Kesler is definitely not a god (I think he's a black hole most of the time) but what other pieces in the lineup can we rely on to score when the Sedins can't? I am actually agreeing with you that Kesler scores because the Sedins draw the tougher defensive matchups but do we have anyone else to take advantage of that? The answer to me is a definite no.

As to your argument over systems. Vigneault definitely employed a style that was trending out of the playoffs thanks to Boston and LA but the system has already changed. Tortorella has already implemented his system, he's already established the style the team will play in the playoffs. This team is already using shorter passes and are already playing tighter in the defensive zone. We're at the 52 game mark here, I don't see us just suddenly flipping a switch and turning everything up to another level. At this point its about finishing and we're just not doing that.

This team cannot survive without the top line finishing its chances. Its just not deep enough. We don't have anyone in the bottom 2 lines who can move up and carry the scoring for a little while. Many of the other teams do. I'm not saying I count them out because there's always a chance but this year was clearly going to be a transition-like year and the team is definitely waiting on some players from the farm to bolster the bottom 2 lines.

Both Gillis and Gilman stated that this year was going to be quiet on the trades and moves because of the inflexibility due to cap crunches. We're exactly were we should be rankings wise given the kind of moves and signings we were able to make in the summer. It's because we're in a playoffs spot that people believe we should be contenders. Its the nature of this market, you either miss the playoffs and suck or make the playoffs and so help me God if they don't win a cup the organization has totally failed.

I would even hedge a bet to say the team is overachieving thus far. But I also don't believe in purposefully tanking to acquire higher draft picks so I'm not going to get into that.

 

[MrShift4]

Fell asleep early in the third, woke up to see a wrong score and then gave up on the game


Can't remember the last time I did that

 

[Wetcoaster]

Fell asleep early in the third, woke up to see a wrong score and then gave up on the game


Can't remember the last time I did that

Do what I do... just drink - to excess.

Then you won't remember at all.

 

[MrShift4]

Do what I do... just drink - to excess.

Then you won't remember at all.

I was too tired to lift a glass last night


Long week

 

[leftwinglockdown]

I would even hedge a bet to say the team is overachieving thus far. But I also don't believe in purposefully tanking to acquire higher draft picks so I'm not going to get into that.

I think they're close to where they should be but they have definitely underachieved a bit imo. There were quite a few points they could have had but ended up pissing away (like this game). Anyways, I don't think tanking is ever a real possibility for this market, for now at least. We haven't languished as long as the Oilers and we still aren't the Flames yet. I'm just speaking to those who think trading a defenseman will fix things.

I just don't think the forward coming back from a 1-for-1 Edler trade would be good enough. A more impactful forward would cost Edler+ (picks and Horvat, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, etc.). We just got some more promising guys onto the farm and I don't want to see it gone for that. It puts us into an even bigger hole if it doesn't work as Edler is younger than the rest of the top 4 and will be relied on when the older guys retire or move on to other teams. Corrado and Tanev alone cannot carry the d-corps.

Personally, I think after watching how the Oilers have fared the last couple of years. Keeping your defense deep is the first key to staying competitive. The team just has to try and look for gems in the draft who can step in sooner than expected.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I was too tired to lift a glass last night


Long week

Use tubing like the stuff you get for fish tanks.

Allows you to roll over without having to move your glass.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Use tubing like the stuff you get for fish tanks.

Allows you to roll over without having to move your glass.

But you have to exert yourself and apply suction.

Now if you could pressurize the liquor bottle and have it flow when a tap is opened that would work.

Or I guess you could place the bottle higher and use gravity to siphon the liquid.

 

[vanuck]

That's my point. Last year he blamed the shortened season, affected everyone, and this year he will blame the cap crunch which affected everyone.

Doesn't mean it's any less valid.

 

[vanuck]

Our pp has so many issues.

No one can make a seam pass. it is just a merry-go-round on the outside. Every effective powerplay i've watch this year has guys making passes between opposing players to the back door. Henrik used to make that pass all the time.

That right hand shot is an issue. Kesler should be on the point.

Any time something works, it becomes all the players look for. There is no creativity anymore.

Personnel on the PP needs to change. Burrows and Hamhuis on the power play shows the very sad state that our power play is in.

I liked what Daniel was doing on that 4min PP... just the wrong guy receiving those passes. Handedness and personnel selection both have something to do with their struggles and last night it could not have been more blatant.

He doesn't even really play on the 3rd line anyway. He plays 20 minutes a night, gets nearly 4 minutes of PP time a night, and Thornton and Burns are his 2nd and 3rd most consistent linemates at 5-on-5.

He's about as much of a 3rd line center as Kesler is.

Early in the season he was playing as their 3rd line C but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Doesn't mean it's any less valid.

I think that people confuse 'excuse' with 'legitimate issue'. When you're consistently a cap ceiling team (with LTIR circumvention to boot) you have very few options when the cap drops.

 

[vanuck]

I think that people confuse 'excuse' with 'legitimate issue'. When you're consistently a cap ceiling team (with LTIR circumvention to boot) you have very few options when the cap drops.

Eh, but he should have foretold the future...