Post-Game Talk: Game 15 - Frustration in Hogtown - Toronto 3 BRUINS 2 F/OT

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Who are the JAGS and grinders? Honestly. R. Nash and Beleskey are the only two veteran grinders on the team. K. Miller and Postma. Who else is there?
I think Pastrnak was your 5th most veteran forward tonight (and two other vets were on the 4th line). - leaving 7 players with less NHL experience than a 21 year-old.

You just ain't gonna win in the NHL that way.

If we get healthy this is a playoff team but you can see by our injuries why kids cant be counted on if theres too many of them

I mean the kids arent injured now but we are calling them 65% ahl... saying our second line is schaller and nash

I want to be as excited as anyone that bjork and debrusk and even heinen have a few points but they need to be spotted and protected as these past few games prove

When we get healthy i think we WILL HAVE 3 scoring lines.

I think bjork can be returned to bergeron and marchand and this trio will give us an edge

Krejci is such a huge loss to our depth. He may not be the perfect linemate for pastrnak but putting these 2 together gives us legitimate depth. Im inclined to give spooner one last chance for redemption and try him on this line too

Hopefully backes will be able to play because hes the key to a 3rd line. Debrusk works hard but being expected to score in top 6 seams too much for him. Maybe the team has room for heinen and bjork and debrusk im not sure. Maybe vatrano gets a hot hand and can salvage a spot?

4th line we shouldnt worry about... accari/nash/schaller have proven adapt and belesky/vatrano actually arent that horrible for 4th line

If healthy that leaves kuraly as a guy that might benefit from ahl time. Swarz and agostino should definitely be viewed as ahl guys. Czarik i fear has an ahl roof.

I think if we could bring in a bigger body guy on the right side our team would look even better... but this group of guys being healthy would make a world of difference compared to the last couple games.

Our kids can help but not unless they are being shrltered properly. Tonight i never felt there was any chance bjork, debrusk, heinen were about to cut loose and create magic for us.

Doesnt mean they suck... just means you need a better balance of vets to bring out the best in these kids

 

[Caper Bruins fan]

Hard to imagine another team giving up more late-period goals than the Bs.

It’s just mind boggling.

It makes it hard to watch . You can always feel impending doom coming .Oh well , let's win in regulation tomorrow.

 

[Gordoff]

This team needs an infusion of solid veteran help immediately as in NOW! They need prime aged vets to help Bergy and Marchy ffs. The injured will come back eventually but it's obvious that Krejci is on the verge of being done IMO. He's in for several then out for three X's several games. Can't have that, they need to make some intelligent decisions now or realize that they aren't going to make the playoffs if this continues on until December 1st. DK is the lynchpin right now and if he doesn't come back for at least 85% of the remaining games and/or if we don't get significant vets in here it's over in a month and we're watching the standing with an eye towards the draft.

 

[BruinDust]

Just wondering if maybe Butch is playing Beleskey so much because maybe he's being showcased? Maybe they're praying to God that he'll actually score or do something significant to gelp win a couple games where maybe MAYBE someone will take him? If I'm D.S. though I'm sending him on the first ******in' train to ****town ASAP!!

No I don't think he is being showcased at all. I think Cassidy dislikes Vatrano even more than Belesky if it can be believed.

The only train Sweeney can put Belesky on is a train to Providence. No team is taking on Belesky without bending Sweeney over to do so.

 

[b in vancouver]

This team would be fine if not for the injuries. Not sure how Sweeney was supposed to foresee Bergeron and Marchand missing time, while Backes, Krejci, Spooner, and McQuaid all suffered significant injuries?

Glory - at least I've been consistent. All summer long I argued that this team should add either two veteran bottom 6 players or one impact vet for the top 6. As I think this team could be very very good. But they left themselves absolutely no room for the inevitable injuries or under-performances from players. There were way too many question marks entering the season. I argued then, as now, that they pencilled in too many kids or inexperienced players.

 

[Gordoff]

No I don't think he is being showcased at all. I think Cassidy dislikes Vatrano even more than Belesky if it can be believed.

The only train Sweeney can put Belesky on is a train to Providence. No team is taking on Belesky without bending Sweeney over to do so.

Providence is what I was referring to.

 

[sarge88]

Should nearly cost Sweeney his job. I liked him up to the end of summer - but they entered the season on a wish and prayer this year. As fans we saw this coming a mile away - I think he's still stuck in 'development' mode.
Tonight (depending on your views of Spooner) they were only essentially missing two top 9 forwards.
If Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Rask (and McAvoy) can't carry this team - they're torched.

I actually forgot about Spooner....was thinking of Backes. To be fair, I’d like to see 10 games with most of the team healthy, allowing the AHL guys to sit and the 7-12 forwards to be slotted in the 7-12 range.

They have been in just about every game this year and I feel that they’re generally playing hard.

 

[HockeyMomx2]

View attachment 83031

 

[b in vancouver]

Nash
Belesky
Szwarz
Schaller
Kuraly
Acciari

The youngest of this group is Kuraly, who will be 25 in January.

Some are JAGs, some are grinders, some are both.

Too many of them. The 3 kids up front aren't the problem.

By kids - I also mean 'no NHL experience'. I don't blame them, just that they needed more veteran players in the line-up in case of injuries or under-performance. It's on Sweeney.
Szwarz - 40 mas
Schaller - 109
Vatrano - 94 (did he even play tonight?)
Kuraly - 23
DeBrusk - 15
Heinen - 19
Bjork - 15
Acciari - 50
Pastrnak - 187
Carlo - 97
McAvoy - 15

You're going to lose a lot of games in the NHL when that's half your line-up.

As far as the three in the top 9. They're fine. But they're mostly passengers at the moment and not winning games.

 

[b in vancouver]

I actually forgot about Spooner....was thinking of Backes. To be fair, I’d like to see 10 games with most of the team healthy, allowing the AHL guys to sit and the 7-12 forwards to be slotted in the 7-12 range.

They have been in just about every game this year and I feel that they’re generally playing hard.

Sarge, I'm probably coming across wrong via type. Hate trying to get tone or a point across sometimes. (but still refuses to use emojis)
I like the kids - I do. I think they could be very good and have always been a fan of DeBrusk.
Just that I thought this core was extremely good but needed a bit more veteran consistency to round it out and give them support as there were already a few question marks - Spooner, Beleskey, Khudobin, Vatrano - whether Pasta and Carlo could build on their years, etc. - that they pencilled in too many inexperienced players and a few injuries and underpormances later and - you're back to a team that needs Bergeron and Marchand to dominate and Chara to play like he's 30 to win games.

 

[Dr Hook]

Get Nash, Kuraly, Szwarz, Belesky, and Postma out.

Insert a healthy Krejci, Backes, Vatrano, Spooner, and McQuaid.

And this is a playoff team.

Can't argue with that. Speaking of a healthy McQuaid, I wonder why O'Gara gets benched in favor of Postmeh. I don't care for Postmeh at all; he isn't that terrible, but just not very good either. I thought O'Gara should have been playing. He's looked fine in his starts. And why if you are going to have a struggler in the lineup, do you play Beleskey and not Vatrano? At least Frank has a chance at getting a goal and he can keep up with play.

Can't wait for at least Krejci, Backes, and McQuaid to be back. Different results I think.

 

[sarge88]

Sarge, I'm probably coming across wrong via type. Hate trying to get tone or a point across sometimes. (but still refuses to use emojis)
I like the kids - I do. I think they could be very good and have always been a fan of DeBrusk.
Just that I thought this core was extremely good but needed a bit more veteran consistency to round it out and give them support as there were already a few question marks - Spooner, Beleskey, Khudobin, Vatrano - whether Pasta and Carlo could build on their years, etc. - that they pencilled in too many inexperienced players and a few injuries and underpormances later and - you're back to a team that needs Bergeron and Marchand to dominate and Chara to play like he's 30 to win games.

Fair enough and I’m not saying I disagree. I’d just be more certain if they could run;

Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Pasta, Backes, Spooner out there playing top 6 minutes, then IMO the rest could sort themselves out.

I remember thinking tonight that Schaller, Acciari and Nash would be a great 4th line.....sadly they were more like a 2A line tonight.

 

[Fenway]

Maple Leafs edge Bruins in overtime - The Boston Globe

 

[caz16]

When 65% of your team is AHL caliber....this is what happens.

Looking at the positives;

A point on the road without 1/3 of your 6 best forwards and a top 6 d-man, while using your backup goalie isn’t the worst result.

Frustrating nonetheless, but if they can eke out a win tomorrow, I’ll be happy with the weekend.

I started to read this thread from the beginning and just skipped past to the end. Fans need to settle down, the Bruins are missing key players yet expect the AHL substitutes to pick up where they left off? Not realistic in any way. The power play is suffering without Krejci and Spooner especially. I'm impressed they are getting points out of most games. Unfortunately the injuries are all longer term and it is going to be very frustrating to watch.

 

[Kate08]

I’m curious where the Cassidy “disliking” players narrative has come from. Is it a holdover from the Claude days?

 

[JAD]

They need to keep treading water and squeeze out as many points as they can during this time of injuries.
On one side of the coin they are only 3 points out of third place in the division. But, on the other side of that coin they are only 4 points from last in the conference. Still a long way to go in the season.
And for better or for worse ... all those who for years wanted to kids to get a chance to play; well, now they're getting it ... just be careful what you wish for.

 

[chizzler]

This team needs an infusion of solid veteran help immediately as in NOW! They need prime aged vets to help Bergy and Marchy ffs. The injured will come back eventually but it's obvious that Krejci is on the verge of being done IMO. He's in for several then out for three X's several games. Can't have that, they need to make some intelligent decisions now or realize that they aren't going to make the playoffs if this continues on until December 1st. DK is the lynchpin right now and if he doesn't come back for at least 85% of the remaining games and/or if we don't get significant vets in here it's over in a month and we're watching the standing with an eye towards the draft.

Glad your coming around on Krejci. He has been the turning point on this team for years. As his play goes, so don't the Bruins. He used to be a 1st line center. Now, he's a second line center that's been hurt lately. There is a big void weather he plays or not IMO.
Trading for a vet won't help. They need multiple vets, like the ones hurt. You just have to wait it out. Selling low is never a good thing. Teams don't want scraps. Any trade is going to hurt.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I’m curious where the Cassidy “disliking” players narrative has come from. Is it a holdover from the Claude days?

I’m think the “dislike” stuff is just coming from watching games and making some assumptions?

When the B’s were “healthier” (ie had Backes and Marchand in the lineup), Cassidy sat Beleskey in favor of some of the AHL callups for 2/3 straight. So, people assumed that he “disliked” Beleskey. But I think in this case, the dislike is just due to lack of performance?

On the other hand, you have Vatrano, who I thought (eyeball) was one of the better B’s players the last few games he was in. Despite that, he has been designated to sit games, while Beleskey (who has been god awful IMO) has played. Even in games Vatrano played in he got very little minutes. People see all this, add it up, and assume that Cassidy “dislikes” Vatrano more than Beleskey.

Honestly, I’m not sure what’s going on? To my eyes, Vatrano has been the far superior player to Beleskey. Neither has scored much (or at all), but 72 has been faster, better on the forecheck and has created more chances. The only thing Beleskey has done is fight a couple of players who weren’t noted tough guys (Kunin and Barbeiro were both in their first NHL fights according to the HockeyFights.com site). If he was going against bigger, tougher guys, I might buy the “he’s contributing to team toughness” argument, but not with those opponents.

I think every coach has players he likes more than others. I was “guilty” of it at the youth level as well (although at that age it was more about effort than anything else). I don’t know that Cassidy dislikes Vatrano, but I can see why people would think that. It could just be as simple as the B’s are paying Beleskey $4m and they want to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to get him going. I think it’s a lost cause (and I was an MB supporter).

 

[Kate08]

I’m think the “dislike” stuff is just coming from watching games and making some assumptions?

When the B’s were “healthier” (ie had Backes and Marchand in the lineup), Cassidy sat Beleskey in favor of some of the AHL callups for 2/3 straight. So, people assumed that he “disliked” Beleskey. But I think in this case, the dislike is just due to lack of performance?

On the other hand, you have Vatrano, who I thought (eyeball) was one of the better B’s players the last few games he was in. Despite that, he has been designated to sit games, while Beleskey (who has been god awful IMO) has played. Even in games Vatrano played in he got very little minutes. People see all this, add it up, and assume that Cassidy “dislikes” Vatrano more than Beleskey.

Honestly, I’m not sure what’s going on? To my eyes, Vatrano has been the far superior player to Beleskey. Neither has scored much (or at all), but 72 has been faster, better on the forecheck and has created more chances. The only thing Beleskey has done is fight a couple of players who weren’t noted tough guys (Kunin and Barbeiro were both in their first NHL fights according to the HockeyFights.com site). If he was going against bigger, tougher guys, I might buy the “he’s contributing to team toughness” argument, but not with those opponents.

I think every coach has players he likes more than others. I was “guilty” of it at the youth level as well (although at that age it was more about effort than anything else). I don’t know that Cassidy dislikes Vatrano, but I can see why people would think that. It could just be as simple as the B’s are paying Beleskey $4m and they want to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to get him going. I think it’s a lost cause (and I was an MB supporter).

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It’s appreciated because I’ve truly been curious. Cassidy coached Vatrano in Providence, yes?

To me, Cassidy has an impossible task. Try to win points with a cobbled together roster. I agree it’s curious that Beleskey has been getting so much playing time, but if you look at the situation, i guess i kind of get it? Folks are screaming for some kind of stabilizing veteran presence given all of the injuries and the number of kids out there at any given time. Maybe Cassidy is hoping someway, somehow, something will click and he’ll be able to provide that?

I know it’s a long shot, he’s really done nothing to show he can be effective in any way...but that’s s lot of money, and a lot of experience in the bench when experience is sorely needed. I actually feel bad for Cassidy...for a relatively new coach he’s in a tough position.

I’m also really disappointed that 39 isn’t working out. Was very, very hopeful. We always seem to have one of these guys on the roster...wonder why that is.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Glory - at least I've been consistent. All summer long I argued that this team should add either two veteran bottom 6 players or one impact vet for the top 6. As I think this team could be very very good. But they left themselves absolutely no room for the inevitable injuries or under-performances from players. There were way too many question marks entering the season. I argued then, as now, that they pencilled in too many kids or inexperienced players.

I guess you get points for consistency, but I still disagree with you. It’s not the youth that’s hurting the B’s, it’s that the youth is being asked to play above their levels because of the injuries.

From what I have seen this year Kuraly, Acciari, Szwarz, Vatrano, etc., all look like they can be capable Bottom 3 NHL players RIGHT NOW.

DeBrusk, Heinen, and Bjork all look like good 3rd line NHL players RIGHT NOW.

The issue is that these inexperienced players are being asked to play Top 6 roles with all the injuries and so far the only one who has looked Top 6 has been Heinen (with flashes from Bjork and DeBrusk).

You are saying that the B’s should have known better and signed a couple of veteran players. I assume you mean guys like Stafford, Vrbata, maybe Iginla? If you signed guys like that, there would have been zero integration of the rookies (which I believe is a necessity in this day and age). If the B’s signed more veterans, as you suggest, we don’t see Heinen emerging as a possible key contributor (even when the team is healthy).

I am actually pretty happy with the Bruins record so far, given who has been forced into the the lineup. Every team has injuries in hockey and I believe the B’s (as constituted) had the depth to withstand the “normal” amount of injuries. No team in the league has enough depth to not miss a beat with the injuries the B’s have sustained.

 

[Bong Whisperer]

If Rask was in goal the score would have been Toronto 4 Bruins 1

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It’s appreciated because I’ve truly been curious. Cassidy coached Vatrano in Providence, yes?

To me, Cassidy has an impossible task. Try to win points with a cobbled together roster. I agree it’s curious that Beleskey has been getting so much playing time, but if you look at the situation, i guess i kind of get it? Folks are screaming for some kind of stabilizing veteran presence given all of the injuries and the number of kids out there at any given time. Maybe Cassidy is hoping someway, somehow, something will click and he’ll be able to provide that?

I know it’s a long shot, he’s really done nothing to show he can be effective in any way...but that’s s lot of money, and a lot of experience in the bench when experience is sorely needed. I actually feel bad for Cassidy...for a relatively new coach he’s in a tough position.

I’m also really disappointed that 39 isn’t working out. Was very, very hopeful. We always seem to have one of these guys on the roster...wonder why that is.

I think Sweeney and Co know that Cassidy is in a tough spot with all the injuries and I doubt it’s held against him.

I’m not sure what happened with Beleskey? Injury? Complacency? Lack of talent? Lack of confidence? Could be any of those or a combo.

I am sure I have the Sweeney Apologist label (which is fine lol) and there are those that hated the signing from the start. However, from where I stand, this is clearly on the player. Three seasons ago,he played well for ANA. Two seasons ago, he played well for Boston. The game has not gotten so much quicker in the last season + that he all of a sudden can’t compete.

By all accounts, last year he showed up out of shape (for a pro athlete), got hurt, then was trying to play his way back into game shape and never got on track. This year, he had all off season to prepare and bounce back, which is what I thought he would do. Instead we have seen a guy that doesn’t even look like an NHL player. I am like you, very disappointed, and at a loss for an explanation.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

If Rask was in goal the score would have been Toronto 4 Bruins 1

Or maybe 3-2 Boston in OT after Khudobin badly misplayed the third TOR goal. He also was lucky and got away with a couple of extremely ill-advised forays out of the net that easily could have resulted in goals in regulation.

When I played (at much lower levels) I wanted a goalie that played hard, but I also wanted a guy that I was confident in. A guy that wasn’t an adventure on a lot of plays.

Rask got off to a slow start and needs to be more consistent, but the idea that Khudobin is a “better” goalie is just ridiculous. The OT goal was real bad, and the first goal was poor rebound control. You aren’t going to be able to smother every shot...you also don’t want to put the rebound on an opposing player’s stick 3 feet away for an easy goal.

If Rask had given up either of those goals he would be getting grilled.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Lost 3 points in the standing to the leafs because they were too ****ing scared to ice the ****ing puck. They still had a time out and everyone was gassed. Just fire the ****ing puck down the ice!!!!!!

No time outs are allowed this year for icing plays

 

[GloryDaze4877]

No time outs are allowed this year for icing plays

You forgot the exclamation points!!!!!!!