News Article: Gagner to the Kings off for now
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Why in the world we would entertain acquiring another center who can't score for ****, I cannot fathom.
kingsboy11
Champions Again
Reaper45
Registered User
Gagner would be a addition at half price and for Clifford and a pick. Anything else is uncivilized.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,593
- 11,785
The idea that the Kings are now scoring on all levels is somewhat misleading to me. Doughty and Carter filled the net against Norway and Finland. Hardly, NHL-level competition. Toffoli getting some goals in the AHL is nice, but it hasn't exactly translated to consistent goal scoring in the NHL even when he was playing with Mike Richards on the 3rd line against lesser competition.
For those critical of Sutter's "system" I assure you that he doesn't tell Doughty and Carter to not shoot the puck, or Kopitar to stick to the boards in the offensive zone.
For those critical of Sutter's "system" I assure you that he doesn't tell Doughty and Carter to not shoot the puck, or Kopitar to stick to the boards in the offensive zone.
You may underestimate what a "system" is doing to a hockey game.
If Sutter orders board grinding, the players will do.
Passing to the blue line after board wrestling and shoot into the crowd in front of the goal is also Sutters system.
And when pinned to the board by 2 defender you just don't score goals. Easy and plain
Do you really think that fine players like Kopitar or lighting speed players like Carter wake up one morning thinking.... uhmm.. from today on i will totally ignore my strength and enter WWE board wrestling because i like it way better ???
Players like that naturally stay out of crap like that.
It's Sutters system that makes them going there and being useless
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,593
- 11,785
Do you think not doing the work on the boards wins hockey games in the NHL?
See Oilers, Edmonton.
The reason the Kings aren't using any of the speed that they do have isn't due to the "system" they employ once the puck gets into the offensive zone. It's because they have to dump the puck in because they don't have enough speed in the neutral zone to carry it over the line. That comes from the first pass coming out of the zone from the defensemen pretty much sucking for the entire season.
Go back and watch some games from the end of the season and the playoffs in 2012. The speed and ease with which the Kings move the puck out of their zone is pretty impressive.
scramble91
Registered User
- Jul 6, 2010
- 1,246
- 12
Nice post. This is what I have seen and if you read between the lines of what Sutter says it's the same thing. He has been very critical on the defense this year and we all can agree that muzzin voynov Mitchell regehr all have struggled with the first pass this season. This causes the forwards to hesitate and the speed is gone.
In 2012 they were all making the fast read and a good pass... Now the reads are slower so the passes are getting tipped or they reverse the play to the other side
Just my opinion
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
- 21,668
- 1,318
Someone that actually understands systems. I knew there was at least one person in here that did.
You know what's really funny, some people are clamoring for Morris to take over for Sutter.
Morris plays the exact same system......
The difference is Morris has Defenders in Manchester that gets forwards the puck in STRIDE.
The Kings defenders this year coming out of the zone have largely sucked.
Drew Doughty this year has also had problems with his first pass.
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
- 21,668
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As too the Gagner story.
I think Lombardi wasn't that interested anyway, unless Gagner was coming really cheap.
Once EDM said they didn't want to eat all the salary, Lombardi most likely said no thanks.
I think Lombardi wasn't that interested anyway, unless Gagner was coming really cheap.
Once EDM said they didn't want to eat all the salary, Lombardi most likely said no thanks.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Consider Gagner as option C or D. Since we'll be closer at the deadline when the season resumes, I think more options may become available in the trade market.
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
It is also why I feel that the Kings record with Martinez in the line up over the past few seasons isn't an abberation. You look at some of those games and Martinez actually gets burned defensively in them but one of his strengths is his ability skate the puck out of the zone and make a good lead pass. Purely anecdotal of course.
As an aside to the system talk, I think teams have found a way to adjust to the Kings breakout which has left them making robotic decisions that aren't very good ones. I don't know what Sutter has told them to do to adjust but it seems pretty clear the Kings have been "figured out". I've also noticed a lack of creativity in the transition. Watch what happens when the Kings create a turnover in the neutral zone. Rarely do you see somebody make a cross ice pass and typcially the player immediately dumps the puck and starts the forecheck. I think combining Carter and Kopitar has compounded this problem. We have all our eggs in one basket. Contrary to what some people seem to think, the team was playing better collectively when Brown/Kopitar/Williams and King/Richards/Carter were together. We need to spread the wealth or teams will zero in on the Kopitar line. You shut that line down, you shutdown the Kings.
scramble91
Registered User
- Jul 6, 2010
- 1,246
- 12
Fully agree
Except if brown doesn't wake up he doesn't deserve to be on the top line with kopitar. It seems like whatever line he is on, the offense disappears
But kopitar and Williams play well together... Just need that elusive left wing
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
- 21,668
- 1,318
The system is as old as Sutter, Teams didn't just figure out the Kings.
The Kings of the last two years simply made plays and proper passes with speed to beat Fore-checkers.
They have struggled to do so this year. Teams in the NHL don't just figure you out all of a sudden.
Everyone knows what the Hawks are doing. The simply can't stop it 100% of the time.
Teams had the Kings figured out during the Cup Run, they just couldn't stop it.
Last edited:
TopT
Registered User
It's both the players and Sutter.
The defense can't pass. The forwards play too low, this team isn't talented, and Sutter focused too much on board play.
It's both.
The question is will DL be casual Kev and not do anything to change up this team.
The defense can't pass. The forwards play too low, this team isn't talented, and Sutter focused too much on board play.
It's both.
The question is will DL be casual Kev and not do anything to change up this team.
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
I agree but I do think teams have made adjustments and clearly sutter has made adjustments too. I mean he changed the lines for a reason and that is an adjustment. He stuck with Carter/Kopitar for quite a while without getting results on the other lines. So while the system may not have been "figured out" or even been a secret to begin with, teams are having greater success and that would lead me to believe that things haven't remained static on either side of the equation.
I do believe the players aren't executing but I think there is more to it than that. That is just my opinion and I have no advanced stats or other data to support it other than "I watch the games".
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
Fully agree
Except if brown doesn't wake up he doesn't deserve to be on the top line with kopitar. It seems like whatever line he is on, the offense disappears
But kopitar and Williams play well together... Just need that elusive left wing
Completely agree about Brown.
I'd like to see King/Kopitar/Williams and Toffoli/Richards/Carter. Swap the left wings if that means more production but I think King compliments Kopitar nicely.
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I pretty much agree. Though I will say my view is I was intrigued to see DL allegedly chasing a playmaker rather than another finisher, because that's the team's bigger issue, in my opinion (though a finisher would help the PP, I think).
HYORI 1963
Grit & Character
Fully agree
Except if brown doesn't wake up he doesn't deserve to be on the top line with kopitar. It seems like whatever line he is on, the offense disappears
But kopitar and Williams play well together... Just need that elusive left wing
Not true.
Brown-Stoll-Williams line was effective. Why Sutter pull the plug on that line is beyond me.
Kinda bummed... I would really like to see Gagner play for Sutter. Just don't think it'd be a good fit, but might be funny as all hell.
Team was winning with Martinez, and his passing, in the line up. Sutter doesn't like Martinez and benches him. This is because Sutter is about the slow controlled break out and moving up in a unit to support the puck carrier. Talk about the Kings cup run and moving out of the zone fast with ease is nice to remember, but this is not what the game plan is. The fast break out is a thing of the past. To those who think it's just going to be added back in, in the playoffs and this is some kind of strategy. I can not wait to see the Kings D try and do fast outlet passes after not practicing it all year.
The Kings system has been "figured out" it may be as old as time, but guess what all teams have to do to shut down the Kings offense is drop into a penalty kill type defense, play more of a zone. Realize the Kings cycle is not dangerous, they will just jam the net or pass to D. The solution presented it's self with the Kings terrible Power Play. Once teams realized they could completely shut the Kings offense down with 4 players its even easier to do with 5. To fix the problem the Kings forwards have to be dangerous on the cycle.
Team was winning with Martinez, and his passing, in the line up. Sutter doesn't like Martinez and benches him. This is because Sutter is about the slow controlled break out and moving up in a unit to support the puck carrier. Talk about the Kings cup run and moving out of the zone fast with ease is nice to remember, but this is not what the game plan is. The fast break out is a thing of the past. To those who think it's just going to be added back in, in the playoffs and this is some kind of strategy. I can not wait to see the Kings D try and do fast outlet passes after not practicing it all year.
The Kings system has been "figured out" it may be as old as time, but guess what all teams have to do to shut down the Kings offense is drop into a penalty kill type defense, play more of a zone. Realize the Kings cycle is not dangerous, they will just jam the net or pass to D. The solution presented it's self with the Kings terrible Power Play. Once teams realized they could completely shut the Kings offense down with 4 players its even easier to do with 5. To fix the problem the Kings forwards have to be dangerous on the cycle.
ShattStar03
Registered User
Like the others, I'm glad they stopped pursuing Gagner. I just hope Sutter makes some adjustments in light of the Kings' Olympic performance.
