Future of Leafs D
- Thread starter saffronleaf
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Rielly here long-term. Sandin and Liljegren poised to be fixtures. A lot would have to go wrong for Niemela not to make it at this point.
From there, Dermott could maybe still have a decent future here, especially if Holl were to be moved and he had a strong finish to the season.
Anyone on the Marlies' D right now, aside from maybe Kral, projects as more of a callup or less at this point.
Kokkonen is interesting, but his offensive game has tailed off over the years (although he was productive in his Marlies' stint). From what I recall, his defensive play wasn't up to it's usual level early in the season either. It will be interesting to see if he can reach a level defensively where he is a must-play option.
I still quite like Koster's transition play and think he's ELC-worthy. He will likely play out all for years of college and a decision will be made from there.
Villeneuve is making strides away from the puck and in his skating, so we could progress into a very real two-way option over the next few seasons. I wasn't high on him initially, but I think he may have what it takes to become better than a lot of what is in the system right now.
1. Sandin
2. Liljegren
3. Niemela (might be on track to take #1, and I think you could argue that off of pure upside at this point)
4. Kokkonen
5. Villeneuve
6. Kral
7. Rubins (higher floor than others)
8. Koster
9. Rindell
10. Duszak (may be making his case for a team to try him out, but I doubt it's the Leafs)
11. Menell (riser potential, but hard to get a read from his early TOR stint)
12. Hollowell (I think the Leafs almost envisioned him being the first D from the current Marlies' D core to make it, but he's fallen down the depth chart)
13. Kivihalme (oldest, not really a prospect)
From there, Dermott could maybe still have a decent future here, especially if Holl were to be moved and he had a strong finish to the season.
Anyone on the Marlies' D right now, aside from maybe Kral, projects as more of a callup or less at this point.
Kokkonen is interesting, but his offensive game has tailed off over the years (although he was productive in his Marlies' stint). From what I recall, his defensive play wasn't up to it's usual level early in the season either. It will be interesting to see if he can reach a level defensively where he is a must-play option.
I still quite like Koster's transition play and think he's ELC-worthy. He will likely play out all for years of college and a decision will be made from there.
Villeneuve is making strides away from the puck and in his skating, so we could progress into a very real two-way option over the next few seasons. I wasn't high on him initially, but I think he may have what it takes to become better than a lot of what is in the system right now.
1. Sandin
2. Liljegren
3. Niemela (might be on track to take #1, and I think you could argue that off of pure upside at this point)
4. Kokkonen
5. Villeneuve
6. Kral
7. Rubins (higher floor than others)
8. Koster
9. Rindell
10. Duszak (may be making his case for a team to try him out, but I doubt it's the Leafs)
11. Menell (riser potential, but hard to get a read from his early TOR stint)
12. Hollowell (I think the Leafs almost envisioned him being the first D from the current Marlies' D core to make it, but he's fallen down the depth chart)
13. Kivihalme (oldest, not really a prospect)
Last edited:
cupcrazyman
Stupid Sexy Flanders
Great points. Niemela may be the next Kaberle but Sandin will be the more complete dman.
AND have failed at every turn most non physical D in the NHL LOOK at TB VS leafs as example
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,704
- 25,547
Sweet Leaf
Registered User
We're going to choke on Muzzin's cap hit for years. He'll be considered our 3rd best LD in short order behind Sandin and Reilly and that cap hit is atrocious for a bottom pairing defencemen. He plays a physical brand of hockey and has already lost a step.
There's no question we're a better team with Muzzin right now. There's also no question IMO that we will be regretting his cap hit through 2024 (5.7M). He has a full NMC clause...the only chance to move him was to leave him unprotected at the expansion draft. That would have hurt us in the short term here but in the long run would have been the move to make. If the Leafs win the cup, it will be a risk that was well taken.
There's no question we're a better team with Muzzin right now. There's also no question IMO that we will be regretting his cap hit through 2024 (5.7M). He has a full NMC clause...the only chance to move him was to leave him unprotected at the expansion draft. That would have hurt us in the short term here but in the long run would have been the move to make. If the Leafs win the cup, it will be a risk that was well taken.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
Muzzin is a fantastic all around top pair quality defenseman on a short-term bargain contract that ends at age 34.
Sweet Leaf
Registered User
He'll be our 3rd best LD as soon as the beginning of next year and he's signed through 2024. We're all going to hate his contract.
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
- 24,396
- 29,532
If Muzzin is your 3rd best LD, it's because you have a fantastic group of LD. Only complainers and whiners would hate Muzzin's contract. As he ages, we may need a more mobile partner for him, that guy is probably Lilly.
The D core is pretty good, and the depth is very good. Niemala has been very good as a prospect, Rindell might be under rated, Rubins looked very good in his short stint.... If we have a need, it's a third pairing mobile physical D man. Really we are in pretty good shape.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
Anyone who hates his contract is....unsmart.
But everyone on hockey side knew da last 2 years of Muzzy's contract would be rough when it was signed .. but guess what father time started kickin this season .. now we have to get a better 2nd pair dman to give Muzzy more support for playoffs .. and it showed all these non hockey fans that Holl was not very good but they all got fooled which isn't hard to do .. i think more likely Brodie and Muzzy have to be shutdown pair of we make playoffs and Dermy can play with Rielly
Sweet Leaf
Registered User
From a roster construction standpoint, we're the last team in the league that can afford to carry a contract like that for your 3rd best LD.
Only time will tell. There's no use in arguing about it too much. As I said, if the leafs win in the interim it will be worth it and look smart. We're obviously much better with him than without him.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
- 8,590
- 3,623
The NMC has actually since become a NTC (essentially the same thing, minus the unlikely/nearly impossible elements of waivers and another expansion draft respectively). However, that NTC becomes a 10 team veto for the final season of the contract. Term expiring on the deal might theoretically make any trade more palatable. The return might not be very much if his skills were to decline though. We'd have to see what the rest of the contracts on the team look like too as ELCs and contracts at or near the veteran's minimum help to create balance. It's a bridge to be crossed if and when.
Last edited:
Voodoo Child
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
- 6,682
- 3,005
Muzzin has been bad this year and wasn’t exactly great last year.
But his NTC hasn’t kicked in yet and it’s a ten-team no trade list. His deal isn’t good, but it’s not even close to Zaitsev bad.
There’s always a market for veteran, Cup winning top-4 D with size in this league, throw in some retention and someone will bite.
I think the time to start discreetly shopping him is around the start of 2022-23, but you listen to offers in the meantime.
But his NTC hasn’t kicked in yet and it’s a ten-team no trade list. His deal isn’t good, but it’s not even close to Zaitsev bad.
There’s always a market for veteran, Cup winning top-4 D with size in this league, throw in some retention and someone will bite.
I think the time to start discreetly shopping him is around the start of 2022-23, but you listen to offers in the meantime.
Last edited:
Sweet Leaf
Registered User
I dont know if it will happen, but if the NHL get delayed because of this covid stuff, it could be a blessing in disguise for our D core.
Muzzin and Holl look off, and getting them a few weeks off to heal up and relax could do wonders for their games.
I am a fan of break up the bottom 2 pairings to more balance our back end.
Muzzin - Liljgren has looked markedly better than Muzzin - Holl.
Sandin could use a defensive first partner with some size and snarl, and Holl is sadly not that.
Lybushkin makes sense as he can play the role I described, and is 700k cheaper.
Ive been a fan of Pysyk, he is cheap, on a team looking for pics. But dont think he compliments Sandin all that well.
Ton of people talk about Mayfield, but I cant see NYI giving him up for a price we will want to pay. Could be perfect add though...
De Haan is someone I used to covet, but he seems to be a pure 3rd pair guy no. No points on the season, and you would need a double retention to make me interested.
**Dark Horse Pick** Luke MF'ing Shenn. He is cheap, has size, knows the city, plays a physical game and 3rd pairing RHD. Wouldn't be a guy who you would want moving up the lineup in case of injury. But if he works out, he has another year at below 900k.
If you want a younger guy, Haydn Fleury is someone I have enjoyed watching from afar. He seems to have the toolbox and tools to be a good sized #5/6 RHD right now with room to grow. He just hasn't seemed to find a good partner he clicks with.
Muzzin and Holl look off, and getting them a few weeks off to heal up and relax could do wonders for their games.
I am a fan of break up the bottom 2 pairings to more balance our back end.
Muzzin - Liljgren has looked markedly better than Muzzin - Holl.
Sandin could use a defensive first partner with some size and snarl, and Holl is sadly not that.
Lybushkin makes sense as he can play the role I described, and is 700k cheaper.
Ive been a fan of Pysyk, he is cheap, on a team looking for pics. But dont think he compliments Sandin all that well.
Ton of people talk about Mayfield, but I cant see NYI giving him up for a price we will want to pay. Could be perfect add though...
De Haan is someone I used to covet, but he seems to be a pure 3rd pair guy no. No points on the season, and you would need a double retention to make me interested.
**Dark Horse Pick** Luke MF'ing Shenn. He is cheap, has size, knows the city, plays a physical game and 3rd pairing RHD. Wouldn't be a guy who you would want moving up the lineup in case of injury. But if he works out, he has another year at below 900k.
If you want a younger guy, Haydn Fleury is someone I have enjoyed watching from afar. He seems to have the toolbox and tools to be a good sized #5/6 RHD right now with room to grow. He just hasn't seemed to find a good partner he clicks with.
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
- 35,591
- 16,777
The problem is most, if not all, of these guys are not better than Holl. Mayfield is the only one who looks like he would be more than a #7 on our team, and I wouldn't want him in our top 4. Hardly even sold on him being an upgrade on Holl, even if Holl can only be a decent bottom pairing defenseman going forward.
Muzzin is the type of guy who will struggle over the long regular season at times because he of his age and the wear and tear on his body. But if we traded him we would be looking for another Muzzin to replace him for playoffs. He's like a Brooks Orpik who is super valuable come playoff time.
