Freidman: don't expect Campbell to be back Leafs inital offer was 2.75 million per year

[BTP]

First of all, the scoreboard read "1-1".

Secondly, the ref had his arm up and blew the whistle before the puck went into the net.

I've never seen fans claim that a puck that went into a net after the whistle had been blown due to a penalty should be counted.

That is basically the definition of delusional.

I mean, do you consider the shots during warm up as goals because "the puck crosses the line"? I hope not. Goals only count if they happen while play is live. That means before the ref blows the whistle signaling that play has stopped.

I can't belive this needs to even be said.

The scoreboard read 1-1... because a goal was scored. Then it was taken away, because it didn't count.

You can twist and turn your way around that all you want but the facts don't change. Just because the arm was up doesnt mean the goal wasn't scored. It was scored and didnt count because the arm/whistle/interference.

If a goal was not scored, why did the entire arena, the announcer, hell.. the TEAM celebrate? Why did the scoreboard change to ADD A GOAL?

Just because something is taken away, doesn't mean it never happened.

We had something, it was taken away, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just stop.

 

[Stamkos4life]

The scoreboard read 1-1... because a goal was scored. Then it was taken away, because it didn't count.

You can twist and turn your way around that all you want but the facts don't change. Just because the arm was up doesnt mean the goal wasn't scored. It was scored and didnt count because the arm/whistle/interference.

If a goal was not scored, why did we all celebrate, why did the scoreboard change to ADD A GOAL?

Just because something is taken away, doesn't mean it never happened.

We had something, it was taken away, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just stop.

I get the feeling your memory isn't the sharpest. You said: "The horn went off, celebrations happened, the scoreboard read 2-2...". The scoreboard did not read 2-2. The score was 1-0 Tampa. The scoreboard operator mistakenly put the score as 1-1.at no point did the board say "2-2".

I'll try one more time to explain what is considered a goal.

A goal only counts if the puck crosses the line while play is live. Full stop.

If the ref blows the whistle, or time runs out, play is dead. If the puck crosses the line in these circumstances, it does not count.

When Tavares shot the puck into the net, the ref had already blown the whistle. That means play is dead.

Just because the fans thought it counted and the scoreboard operator put it up does not out weigh the fact that play was dead.

I hope you understand this time as I don't think I can make it any simpler.

 

[BTP]

I get the feeling your memory isn't the sharpest. You said: "The horn went off, celebrations happened, the scoreboard read 2-2...". The scoreboard did not read 2-2. The score was 1-0 Tampa. The scoreboard operator mistakenly put the score as 1-1.at no point did the board say "2-2".

I'll try one more time to explain what is considered a goal.

A goal only counts if the puck crosses the line while play is live. Full stop.

If the ref blows the whistle, or time runs out, play is dead. If the puck crosses the line in these circumstances, it does not count.

When Tavares shot the puck into the net, the ref had already blown the whistle. That means play is dead.

Just because the fans thought it counted and the scoreboard operator put it up does not out weigh the fact that play was dead.

I hope you understand this time as I don't think I can make it any simpler.

You lost this debate as you said "a goal only counts".

It was a goal. That did not count.

...Thats what I'm trying to tell you.

Now stop.

 

[rocketman588]

appearently if you fire it into the net after an off side it is also a goal now we should start trying that

 

[zeke]

They didn't we all saw the scoreboard

We all saw the goal.

We all know.

 

[Dreakmur]

We all saw the goal.

We all know.

The puck went in after the whistle. You can disagree with the call, but the play is dead when the whistle goes.

 

[rocketman588]

The puck went in after the whistle. You can disagree with the call, but the play is dead when the whistle goes.

It's the same thing as firing the puck into the net after an offside call would be

No shock the dubasboys don't understand the rules

If you want to blame anyone blame Holl for one of the most idiotic picks i have ever seen.

Picking the player defending the puck in the slot right in front of the ref is next level stupid.

Dude shouldn't have even been in the lineup

 

[Stamkos4life]

You lost this debate as you said "a goal only counts".

It was a goal. That did not count.

...Thats what I'm trying to tell you.

Now stop.

It was a shot after the whistle that went into the net. Not a goal.

At no point did the nhl count the Tavares shot as a goal. It was never turned over.

If you want to convince yourself that the Leafs scored 2 goals, I guess there isn't much I can do if you won't listen to logic.

 

[zeke]

The puck went in after the whistle. You can disagree with the call, but the play is dead when the whistle goes.

We all saw the good goal.

 

[Legion34]

going back to Fred.

This is the 3rd time now he has been unable to play in the playoffs due to a knee injury? At least 2 being an mcl?

The leaf series was pretty illuminating. If Kyle dubas gets frustrated with you. It’s an issue. He is accused of coddling wveryone


Multiple insiders said there was no structural damage to the knee. Rod seemed pretty livid and not sure what the issue was.

Freddie is a good goalie but he seems to be mentally broken now. Wonder if he bounces back

 

[Dreakmur]

We all saw the good goal.

We all apparently didn't hear the whistle.

 

[Batrous]

So then the question becomes: If Campbell doesn't come back who will be the starter for Toronto next year? Toronto's draft history with goalies since 2006 doesn't look promising although who knows how some of the 2020 and 21 draft goalie prospects will turn out. Goalies such as Woll and Scott if they can stay healthy might be backups in the future but that's questionable at this point. So the most likely source will be a free agency signing (which will probably either be expensive or not likely to succeed given what would be available) or a trade (Campbell's acquisition price wasn't too expense but Andersen cost them a 1st and 2nd).

 

[TGB]

You guys are missing the point. In the context of Vasi being VASTLY better than Campbell, it's a mistake to ignore the fact that he did, in fact, give up two goals. It's just the second one didn't count. In terms of Vasi vs. Campbell, the goaltending wasn't the X-factor that lost the series. Both goalies gave up two goals. That means this whole idea that Campbell should just be tossed aside on that logic alone is an erroneous one. He did fine. As far as options go, he SHOULD be considered. Certainly a much easier option to find.

It's also silly to let the rest of the team off the hook. SO MANY bad angle/low danger shots like the Leafs have done in every elimination game they've played.

 

[ACC1224]

The scoreboard read 1-1... because a goal was scored. Then it was taken away, because it didn't count.

You can twist and turn your way around that all you want but the facts don't change. Just because the arm was up doesnt mean the goal wasn't scored. It was scored and didnt count because the arm/whistle/interference.

If a goal was not scored, why did the entire arena, the announcer, hell.. the TEAM celebrate? Why did the scoreboard change to ADD A GOAL?

Just because something is taken away, doesn't mean it never happened.

We had something, it was taken away, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just stop.

Not sure where you were sitting but they never announced a goal in the building, they never changed the scoreboard. A goal was never taken away because a goal was never awarded.

 

[Dreakmur]

You guys are missing the point. In the context of Vasi being VASTLY better than Campbell, it's a mistake to ignore the fact that he did, in fact, give up two goals. It's just the second one didn't count.

It wasn’t a goal. It was after a whistle. That’s the fact.

 

[The Iceman]

Couldn't agree more with this. I never liked the Mrazek contract much, and it looks worse today than it did day-one. Plus the injury concerns are real. But Mrazek isn't a bad goalie. This board seems to be convinced that he isn't NHL quality, and that trading him is a foregone conclusion. He absolutely is NHL quality. He's incredibly talented, and a real fun athletic goalie. I'd describe him as a good platoon guy, which is what most teams in the league have to work with.

Posters here should get prepared to see him in the net again next season. He could very well be back.

The last time Mrazek had a year as bad as last year he came back with a .914 and 23-14.
Is everyone OK if that happened?

Bottom line for me still is YOU NEED A TOP 8 GOALIE to win.
We haven't had one since 2003-2004 the date of our last series win. Coincidence...NO

 

[zeke]

Who is this "we"? All you all really obese?

We includes you.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

If Andy kept letting in key goals during multiple playoffs series then Campbell does the exact same thing for multiple playoffs series, wouldn't logic dictate an issue outside of goaltending if every goalie who plays here has issues.

Personally I think it must be hard to play in Keefes system as a goalie. Leafs dominate play but give up odd man rushes and breakaways so the goalies aren't seeing many shots to get warmed up then are facing very very dangerous rush changes.

I think someone posted the other day that the leafs or Campbell had the worst high danger sv% in the league last year or something like that. Doesnt surprise me at all.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

If Andy kept letting in key goals during multiple playoffs series then Campbell does the exact same thing for multiple playoffs series, wouldn't logic dictate an issue outside of goaltending if every goalie who plays here has issues.

Personally I think it must be hard to play in Keefes system as a goalie. Leafs dominate play but give up odd man rushes and breakaways so the goalies aren't seeing many shots to get warmed up then are facing very very dangerous rush changes.

I think someone posted the other day that the leafs or Campbell had the worst high danger sv% in the league last year or something like that. Doesnt surprise me at all.

Not sure what type of goalie would do well in our system...and neither does MLSE by the looks of it. The 69/75 in high danger chances is really concerning for Jack. That is atrocious when you consider we didn't even give up that many high danger chances. It just seemed that if the other team got a good look...it went in. We need to fix this and figure out what style would help us. Maybe someone like a Jonathan Quick (not him..just his style) would do well here...

 

[socko]

I'm not surprised Jack is bad in high danger chances. He flops all over the place. I mean he's a pretty great goalie if you took that part of his game away. He'd be far better off if he just covered along the ice and at least made the shooter lift the puck up. Really makes you appreciate a goalie like Shesterkin who seems to have no wasted movement, everything is calculated and for a purpose.

 

[Racer88]

I’m dizzy from reading all the it’s a goal……no it’s not…….yes it is but it didn’t count……well then it’s not a goal.
the only fact that matters is Tampa moved on and the Leafs didn’t. Everything else is just a sales job

 

[socko]

It's just silliness,, It was a blatant pick and properly called as such. It's bad enough when we complain about legit bad calls.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Not sure what type of goalie would do well in our system...and neither does MLSE by the looks of it. The 69/75 in high danger chances is really concerning for Jack. That is atrocious when you consider we didn't even give up that many high danger chances. It just seemed that if the other team got a good look...it went in. We need to fix this and figure out what style would help us. Maybe someone like a Jonathan Quick (not him..just his style) would do well here...

How did Mzarek do for high danger chances? If he is also really poor it does seem to be a system issue rather than a goalie issue perhaps.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

How did Mzarek do for high danger chances? If he is also really poor it does seem to be a system issue rather than a goalie issue perhaps.

The HDA -- high-danger scoring chances against was 496 for the Leafs and the league average was 543. If you look at HDGA -- High-danger scoring chances against that lead to goals, the Leafs had 75 and the league average was 72.

So it's not a Leafs system issue. Campbell just didn't give us the saves that we needed especially when we needed them. He's not a goalie that is going to steal you a game when you're offence dries up, as ours has in key playoff games.

 

[socko]

Well Jack's numbers are on par with most of the so-called upgrades and better than some of them. I don' think a lateral move is always a bad thing, sometimes you just need a change of scenery, but call it what it is.

Then I see people quoting his recent playoff numbers..... Really folks.... I realize we might not all be statistics majors but at least we have some idea of what we can and can't draw from a super small sample size. His career numbers are far more relevant to who he is than his 7 game series vs the Lightning.