Soup is moving on and I think that is best for everyone involved here 5 chances and you are out .. Mrzak will be bought out/LTIR'd if no one wants to trade for him .. we will have 1 new tender next year likely via trade and one of kids will be backup
Freidman: don't expect Campbell to be back Leafs inital offer was 2.75 million per year
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ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Peterson in LA got 3x5m. Jack is worth that. Mrazek got 3x3.8m. Jack is not taking less than that. Add that he has carried the mail for two playoff runs at 1.65m and he is worth a lot more than you think.
Fixed it for you.
Another team signing a bad deal doesn't mean you need to sign a bad deal.
The Carolina/Leafs Goalie carousel has all the comparables you need.
Freddy - Established quality #1 (2x4.5)
Mrazek - At time of signing, similar career numbers, 2.59GAA/.911sv% vs 2.56GAA/.915sv%, but almost double the games and had 4 "starter seasons" under his belt vs 1 for Campbell (3x3.8)
Raanta - Better career numbers, 2.46GAA and .919sv%, like Campbell only 1 "starter season" but it was significantly more impressive than Campbells, 2.24GAA/.930sv% vs 2.64GAA/.914sv% (2x2)
All three had injury issues leading into their UFA year, Freddy and Mrazek had proven starter pedigree so got a bit more. Raanta has the best numbers but not the track record (still more than Campbell).
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Valid points but I just don't see how Soup takes less than Mrazek when he can argue he has been their #1G for the past two seasons and was an all-star this season. If I am the Oilers (who will also probably be looking for two goalies), I'd gladly give Soup the Mrazek deal if he would accept it.
Nice breakdown, rolling back the calendar a Freddy/Raanta tandem is what I was hoping for the Leafs (never understood why Raanta is consistently undervalued, what's the deal?)
Goalies are often overpaid though and Campbell is a good candidate to be one of them. His exposure in TO, all-star appearance, etc. have given him brand value.
A poster previously pointed out that he didn't break 50 games in his only starter season, and I would add that it also led to what looked like a mental breakdown. Even still, his agent is right to anchor high - it will be interesting to see what he ends up getting.
Once
Stop ******* crying bro
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Even if Soup stayed I can't see Kallgren or Woll being reliable backups for an entire season. Based on the team's circumstances we are likely to land another Soup calibre goalie (unless Gibson, and thats questionable), and for that alone I think Kallgren/Woll would be best suited as third options.
Mrazek is a lose-lose scenario. We lose organizational assets or valuable cap space for multiple years - I'd prefer the former, so be it.
Given that this will be soup's first and final payday he his going to follow the money. If it's Toronto I think he would take a small discount but yeah he 100% gets more than Mrazek, no matter how you slice it.
Gary Nylund
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LOL. You really need to calm down dude. Every summer it's the same thing, OMG how will we ever be able to fill the roster with these cap constraints and every summer it happens somehow.
And every spring it ends the same!
Gary Nylund
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Yep all very likely .. no harm in playing a kid as a backup getting 20 starts/season though .. we have to given CAP issues .. i hope they pick Woll .. he is a big game tender .. da bigger da game da more on da line and kid just UPS his game to next level .. I have seen kid play on a weak team and get outshot 60-10 with 10 Mitch breakaways and win 1-0 in OT with a Thachuk goal .. some kids just have da IT factor under da brightest of lights .. Binner was very similar except smaller
613Leafer
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For anyone completely scoffing at the idea of giving Campbell something like a 3 X 4.75-5M contract, what is your proposed alternative?
i.e. who specifically is available in free agency or trade that is a clear upgrade over Campbell, and who also makes sense given their expected trade cost / caphit? Teams with only one starter aren't going to trade their starter, and if you look around the league, there aren't really any Luongo/Schneider, Price/Halak, etc type of situations with teams sitting on two bona fide starters.
Boston is probably the closest thing to a team with two starters, with both Ulmark and Swayman having played 40+ games and put up good/decent numbers. But Ulmark's career save % is worse than Campbell's - so I don't really see how trading assets for a goalie who has a 5M caphit and who on paper doesn't appear to be any kind of upgrade over Campbell makes sense, and Boston isn't going to move the 23 year old guy who makes under 1M. Beyond that? Varlamov? The 34 year old 5M goalie who's had a bit of an up and down career - is that better than Campbell at the same number? Gibson, the 6.4M goalie who hasn't topped a 0.904 save % in 3 years? Kuemper in UFA - he's going to cost 5.5M+, and that's assuming he isn't re-signed by Colorado.
Other UFA options like Husso, Francouz, Comrie, MAF, etc, might be great 1B options, but not really guys you want to go into the season with as your proposed starting goalie for the playoffs.
I don't like the idea of giving Campbell that type of contract, but unless you can actually propose a realistic better alternative, I don't see how it's helpful to just shut down that option down immediately.
i.e. who specifically is available in free agency or trade that is a clear upgrade over Campbell, and who also makes sense given their expected trade cost / caphit? Teams with only one starter aren't going to trade their starter, and if you look around the league, there aren't really any Luongo/Schneider, Price/Halak, etc type of situations with teams sitting on two bona fide starters.
Boston is probably the closest thing to a team with two starters, with both Ulmark and Swayman having played 40+ games and put up good/decent numbers. But Ulmark's career save % is worse than Campbell's - so I don't really see how trading assets for a goalie who has a 5M caphit and who on paper doesn't appear to be any kind of upgrade over Campbell makes sense, and Boston isn't going to move the 23 year old guy who makes under 1M. Beyond that? Varlamov? The 34 year old 5M goalie who's had a bit of an up and down career - is that better than Campbell at the same number? Gibson, the 6.4M goalie who hasn't topped a 0.904 save % in 3 years? Kuemper in UFA - he's going to cost 5.5M+, and that's assuming he isn't re-signed by Colorado.
Other UFA options like Husso, Francouz, Comrie, MAF, etc, might be great 1B options, but not really guys you want to go into the season with as your proposed starting goalie for the playoffs.
I don't like the idea of giving Campbell that type of contract, but unless you can actually propose a realistic better alternative, I don't see how it's helpful to just shut down that option down immediately.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
These are valid points. However, the issue with committing meaningful cap dollars and term to Campbell is that he hasn't proven that he can handle the workload required from a physical standpoint, and more importantly, from a mental standpoint.
In my opinion, if we are going to commit 4-5 million in cap space over the next few years to a starting goaltender, I would rather take my chances on someone else with a more stable track record. There are some options in free agency.
613Leafer
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Who specifically was the point of my post. Can you provide an example of someone in free agency with a "more stable track record" who makes sense based on the contract they're likely to get?
Kuemper is 32 and will cost even more than Campbell - he's the only UFA goalie I would take over Campbell for next year if we completely ignored contracts, but based on what he will likely get and our cap structure, it's hard to picture him fitting. After that, Francouz has good stats, but is also a 31 year old with only 59 NHL games under his belt, which is quite the thing for us to rely on as a starting goalie in a year we want to contend for the Cup.
If you want someone with more NHL experience (i.e. the "more stable track record" you referred to)... MAF, Holtby, Talbot, Desmith, etc, these guys have all had worse stats than Campbell over the last two years and are also all older (Campbell is 10th for save % the last two seasons with a minimum 40 games played, those guys are 12th, 42nd, 19th, and 18th respectively, not to mention DeSmith actually has less NHL experience to go along with worse numbers). The free agent list is here if you want to take a look - 2022 NHL Free Agents Tracker.
keonsbitterness
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I'd be totally fine with the following happening this offseason:
1) sign Soup to a similar Mrazek deal
2) Firing Mrazek into the sun
3) finding a way to get Georgiev onboard with the team (through trade)
Wishful thinking on my part...
1) sign Soup to a similar Mrazek deal
2) Firing Mrazek into the sun
3) finding a way to get Georgiev onboard with the team (through trade)
Wishful thinking on my part...
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Agree with 1 and 2 but prefer DeSmith for free for 3.
ShaneFalco
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ACC1224
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Certainly safer option than going after Gibson. Part of me wants total change in net but maybe it’s better to go with the devil we know. Dubas has a pretty big decision to make, biggest of the summer. He better make the right one.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
You expect him to get paid more than Freddy Andersen?
I'm hardly an a Freddy fan by any stretch, but he's proven a lot more than Soup has at this point
613Leafer
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Georgiev may have a few stellar games against the Leafs under his belt, but his overall body of work (especially the last 3 years) isn't very impressive.
I'd rather save the assets, and just sign one of Francouz, Husso, DeSmith, etc to be the 1B guy.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Andy has but according to CJ 5m is the ask from the Soup camp. I like him more at 4.
Gary Nylund
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socko
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But he's also not coming off an 0.895 season where he looked finished and lost his starting job.
613Leafer
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Good question. Can't say I love any of the options.
Most likely option is Campbell with us paying more than we probably should. After that, Varlamov unfortunately is probably the most available guy. Kuemper maybe if he hits free agency, but he's likely looking for his big payday and our cap structure doesn't really allow that.
There aren't really any other 1A guys available beyond that, and certainly no legit studs available at all (even if we're willing to pay a premium). Gibson has been talked about, but that's a very risky move given recent history, trade cost, and contract. He's been bad for 3 years straight, and even though he's on a bad team, plenty of other goalies on bad teams have put up much better numbers in that same timespan.
Gary Nylund
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Yeah, that's what I thought. Then we probably have to pay something to get rid of Mrazek as well and it's a little bit scary to think about what that cost might be. A better option might be to go after Kuemper and if we have to to ahem, adjust our cap structure in order to do it then trade Nylander to make it happen.
I'm not too worried about Matthews leaving, but I am far less certain about being able to resign Nylander so this might be an ideal time to shuffle him out, and a #1 goalie in.
