For old timers who watched Orr, is McDavid the first player since with clear skating seperation from the rest of the league?

[HockeyVirus]

Orr was well before my time, but looking into old highlights and he reminds me a lot of how McDavid looks in the modern NHL. Faster than everyone else by quite a bit. It almost looks like most of the players struggle to follow the play as quickly as Orr can.

I think this clip out of all the highlights I watched best shows what seems no other player able to take the puck away from him when he was up to speed.



Greztky was never a great skater from what I can see. Crosby has elite edges but never was faster than everyone else. I am trying to understand exactly what made Orr so special, and based on his highlights his skating seems to stand out the most.

 

[K Fleur]

Gretzky was a great skater, very agile had great edgework.

Crosby before his high ankle sprain in early 2008 was a very fast skater.

McDavid is the first player I’ve seen make defenseman just give up skating backwards and turn around as soon as he starts skating up the ice on odd man rushes.

 

[The Panther]

Yes, David Staples of the Edmonton Journal made the observation that McDavid is just like Bobby Orr as a forward, and (not having watched Orr play) I think that is correct.

It was fun watching Gretzky in his late prime (I missed much of his early prime) carry the puck through the neutral zone and cross the blue line, or take a pass as he arrived in the zone, because defenders would start sagging off. They were afraid of rushing him or taking a chance because he'd inevitably make them look foolish by over-committing. Likewise, when he got the puck behind the net. This wasn't because of his skating per se (though, as @K Fleur wrote, his edgework was second to none) but rather because of his otherworldly anticipation of what defenders would do. They quickly learned that he was unpredictable so you couldn't do a normal gamble as you would with most players.

With McDavid, defenders have also learned to back off when he takes the puck --- or even is likely to receive it. In the main, this is because of his skating. Once he has control and has already begun to accelerate, defence are already beaten, and they know it. So, they have to sag and find a safe space.

While McDavid's puck handling, shooting, and passing are all at all-world level and sometimes are the very best in the world, there are a handful of guys who can match him in those areas at least some of the time. But nobody can touch his combination of skill plus speed simultaneously. Maybe only Orr could (relative to era, equipment, etc.).

 

[LuckyPierre]

I feel as though Vancouver-era Pavel Bure was a noticeably better skater and puck handler than the rest of the world at the time.

His ability to back off defenders on the rush, or slice through zone defense on the cycle was almost automatic.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I feel as though Vancouver-era Pavel Bure was a noticeably better skater and puck handler than the rest of the world at the time.

His ability to back off defenders on the rush, or slice through zone defense on the cycle was almost automatic.

Bure looked similar to McDavid for me too, with his explosiveness carrying the puck, and I think that more than anything else is what separates McDavid. I don’t think it is speed itself.

There have been plenty of tremendous skaters since Orr- Coffey, Federov, Gartner, Bure etc to name a few.. but few that can do so much at top speed. Personally I think Coffey was a step up from most in his ability to do things at speed but winding up from defence makes him look totally different than McDavid. That and Coffey’s effortless skating style.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

my memory is even in the early 90s coffey looked like a different species out there, like a cheetah running with leopards or something

it wasn’t like mcdavid where he is just the fastest guy out there, it was more like he had this weird control of the ice moving beneath him where he would take two strides and the other guy would take two strides but somehow he was ahead by a third and you couldn’t figure out why.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t think McDavid has clear skating separation from the league. I think there are plenty of skaters who can keep up with McDavid. We’ve seen it at the all star game.

His ability comes from being able to process the game at the same level as the greats while being one of the fastest skaters in the game.

I also think your take on Crosby is disingenuous. Him and Ovechkin were absolute rockets when they came into the league in 05-06. Sid was doing a lot of the same types of plays that we see from McDavid prior to his ankle sprain.

 

[Michael Farkas]

McDavid's speed isn't valuable without his high end skill level. His skating doesn't drive the bus, his skill and manipulation ability do...the skating is the sweetener...skating being your best asset doesn't get you anything in particular...Michael Grabner was the fastest skater in the NHL for a while, he's no one. Brett Lebda is one of the best skaters I've seen, didn't work out for him. There has to be some steak under the sauce...

 

[ForsbergForever]

I think Guy Lafleur and/or Gilbert Perreault were also known for being superior skaters vs the competition.

 

[The Panther]

my memory is even in the early 90s coffey looked like a different species out there, like a cheetah running with leopards or something

it wasn’t like mcdavid where he is just the fastest guy out there, it was more like he had this weird control of the ice moving beneath him where he would take two strides and the other guy would take two strides but somehow he was ahead by a third and you couldn’t figure out why.

This is correct. Coffey's skating somehow defied the laws of physics.

Bure looked similar to McDavid for me too, with his explosiveness carrying the puck, and I think that more than anything else is what separates McDavid. I don’t think it is speed itself.

There have been plenty of tremendous skaters since Orr- Coffey, Federov, Gartner, Bure etc to name a few.. but few that can do so much at top speed. Personally I think Coffey was a step up from most in his ability to do things at speed but winding up from defence makes him look totally different than McDavid. That and Coffey’s effortless skating style.

Bure looked very similar to McDavid in a straight line as he was blowing past people. But I'm not sure he had the curves, pivots, and dexterity with the puck that McDavid has.

In addition to being the fastest guy (in full control of the puck) that I've seen, McDavid also is by far the best forward I've seen in pivoting both left and right to avoid checkers (notably, off the boards).

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

Orr was well before my time, but looking into old highlights and he reminds me a lot of how McDavid looks in the modern NHL. Faster than everyone else by quite a bit. It almost looks like most of the players struggle to follow the play as quickly as Orr can.

I think this clip out of all the highlights I watched best shows what seems no other player able to take the puck away from him when he was up to speed.



Greztky was never a great skater from what I can see. Crosby has elite edges but never was faster than everyone else. I am trying to understand exactly what made Orr so special, and based on his highlights his skating seems to stand out the most.

Yes, the comparison is excellent imo.

What the visual comparisons don't convey is how persistent Orr's dominance was as a skater. Both players bring that every game in ways that don't usually show up on highlight reels or stat sheets. McDavid totally evokes the memory or Orr that way. Speed-wise, I can't think of another player who has come close to standing out that way so persistently since. That's the key. They were/are day in day out. And there's this weird thing where, so often, it looks like they are playing with the competition.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Did Bure have slightly longer skate blades or something? For some reason I have that idea in my head that he liked more contact with the ice to generate more straight line speed...

 

[wetcoast]

I feel as though Vancouver-era Pavel Bure was a noticeably better skater and puck handler than the rest of the world at the time.

His ability to back off defenders on the rush, or slice through zone defense on the cycle was almost automatic.

Good call but the first guy I thought of was Paul Coffey he glided so fast so effortlessly out there.

Kent the Magic Man Nilsson was also very gifted out there just didn't being the lunchbox often enough.

Also even though he doesn't fit the star player category Ivan Boldirev always looked like a player who wasn't trying because he was so smooth at skating out there.

I remember at one time in my youth I had more than 20 of his cards more than any other player then he became a Canuck.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

Did Bure have slightly longer skate blades or something? For some reason I have that idea in my head that he liked more contact with the ice to generate more straight line speed...

Orr, it may be due to a genetically enhanced compatibility with water in general

​

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

I feel as though Vancouver-era Pavel Bure was a noticeably better skater and puck handler than the rest of the world at the time.

His ability to back off defenders on the rush, or slice through zone defense on the cycle was almost automatic.

I remember thinking, no later than two or three games into the Pavel Bure show, that I was easily looking at the Canucks best forward and a likely lock to be a Hall of Famer.

The difference I see between him and Orr and McD is that the other two could play around with players when they weren't going full-on rocket mode. McDavid's does this with such variety, but Orr could make the same impression by skating circles around everybody.

 

[johan f]

Karlsson was in between. Best skater since Orr. Then came Cooke.

 

[Namba 17]

Orr was well before my time, but looking into old highlights and he reminds me a lot of how McDavid looks in the modern NHL. Faster than everyone else by quite a bit. It almost looks like most of the players struggle to follow the play as quickly as Orr can.

Have you ever watched prime Kharlamov and Makarov?

 

[67 others]

This is correct. Coffey's skating somehow defied the laws of physics.


Bure looked very similar to McDavid in a straight line as he was blowing past people. But I'm not sure he had the curves, pivots, and dexterity with the puck that McDavid has.

In addition to being the fastest guy (in full control of the puck) that I've seen, McDavid also is by far the best forward I've seen in pivoting both left and right to avoid checkers (notably, off the boards).

A lot of these players have different styles. Fedorov could beat Bure north south, but if he had to run an obstacle course evading players by punching 10 feet east west in the middle of his north south run, Bure would beat him.

expand...
Bure's speed is his acceleration and ability to go east west fast as opposed to north South. His top speed wasn't as fast as people seem to remember. Fedorov and Coffey were faster north south

People compared Bure with Orr, but Orr was still far ahead of bure in terms of turning radius and top speed(and ability to skate backwards fast). Similar acceleration and ability to jump 10 feet east west on a dime. McDavid is the closest thing to bobby Orr we have seen since Bobby orr

Am I crazy for thinking the best backwards skater I have ever seen is Fetisov? that guy could skate backwards faster than most people could skate forwards

McDavid would beat anyone except Orr. Orr on modern skates would be a terror.

Crosby doesn't belong on any north south speed race, but in terms of possession speed, edgework and elusiveness while in the offensive zone he can beat almost anyone on the list.

His edgework is some of the GOAT above any other player.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Did Bure have slightly longer skate blades or something? For some reason I have that idea in my head that he liked more contact with the ice to generate more straight line speed...

I actually remember hearing that Coffey sharpened his blades in such a way that there was more flat surface on the bottom, though it could be both of those thing.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

Crosby doesn't belong on any north south speed race, but in terms of possession speed, edgework and elusiveness while in the offensive zone he can beat almost anyone on the list.

His edgework is some of the GOAT above any other player.

Yes, and his leg strength and centre seem the decisive edge. I'm thinking that Berdard will follow the same arc, and if he does I predict that he'll continue to evolve as a great passer, through a relatively elite ability to pass (as well as shoot) in traffic.
One difference I see between the two is that Crosby will probably prove to have wound up holding the puck more than CB will in such situations.

 

[67 others]

I actually remember hearing that Coffey sharpened his blades in such a way that there was more flat surface on the bottom, though it could be both of those thing.

He also wore size 6 skates. His feet were size 9. But yeah, reduced edge means more speed, but worse on your edges.

You need more edges for the quick east west moves ala Bure. But coffey was more about north south speed.

It becomes a problem in arenas with wetter slushier ice though. Your edge will slide and you can blow out your groin.

 

[Johnny Engine]

He also wore size 6 skates. His feet were size 9. But yeah, reduced edge means more speed, but worse on your edges.

You need more edges for the quick east west moves ala Bure. But coffey was more about north south speed.

It becomes a problem in arenas with wetter slushier ice though. Your edge will slide and you can blow out your groin.

If I'm remembering this correctly (big if), it wasn't talking about taking away from the inside and outside edges of the blade, but rather the front and back curves. So a really long rocker.

 

[sr edler]

Did Bure have slightly longer skate blades or something? For some reason I have that idea in my head that he liked more contact with the ice to generate more straight line speed...

There's a video somewhere on YT where Ryan Walter talks to a bunch of kids about Bure's skating technique, and demonstrates it. Or his practice skating technique moreso, where you kinda drag your feet along the ice instead of sprinting like an antelope.

 

[Jericho111091]

my memory is even in the early 90s coffey looked like a different species out there

Coffey is one of the few players I would turn a game on just to watch him skate

 

[Hanji]

Interestingly, McDavid is a master at generating speed with rapid and quick linear crossovers. The way he backs defenders off via this technique is crazy.
However one could not do this in Orr's day, at least not to the same degree. You'd shred your ankles due to the lack of skate support.