Yep and the public took that exact approach in the Duke Lacrosse case. Turns out the girl was out of her mind.....but that didn't change the fact that lives were ruined and there was no taking it back.
Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges
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Yep and the public took that exact approach in the Duke Lacrosse case. Turns out the girl was out of her mind.....but that didn't change the fact that lives were ruined and there was no taking it back.
The exact same thing could be said about fame/money chasing women hurling powerful accusations in the hope of a payday or "me too" publicity.
Many such instances out there.
How about we just withhold judgement until the evidence plays out?
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Exactly. And when people focus on "the girl shouldn't have been that drunk in a room full of guys" it implicitly accepts that men will sexually assault women. That we accept it as a society, so it is the woman's responsibility to avoid it.
When in reality the conversation should be about consent, how murky things get when alcohol is involved, and frankly looking out for a fellow human being. The ideal being that in a situation where someone is too drunk to give consent the first thought being "is that person ok?" and not "how can I exploit this person?"
Rich Nixon
No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
The Duke Lacrosse comparison has already been invoked and shredded multiple times in this thread. I'm begging people to actually read the available information about this case before convincing themselves that they are about to introduce a totally groundbreaking wrinkle that no one else has considered.
This cases bares only the most superficial similarity to Duke, to the point where equating them serves no purpose but to undermine the accuser in this one
Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team told to surrender to police (Do not Speculate!!! see the OP) upd: Formenton turns himself in
Danarqhy
Registered User
Total BS easily disproven with a simple search. There are FAR more victims that suffer in silence because the legal system overwhelmingly favors predators in criminal cases, not to mention the stigma and trauma attached with being a sexual assault/rape victim that they never want to relive.
What "evidence" do you think victims can present other than their word, given everything we know about these crimes, victim psychology, and how they are dealt with by authorities? The deck is immediately stacked against them.
And the probability that many of the people whose lives were ruined by supposedly false accusations are actually guilty is pretty high for the reasons mentioned above.
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we all want to get to a place where women are safe all the time. We can do our best to raise boys better but until we reach the point where women are safe, its a disservice to not teach girls the extra risks present.
The bolded is a very good point. While I tend to agree with the rest, it’s a very complicated situation. Child sexual abuse rates are alarming and depressing despite virtually no one ever making excuses for it. Theres so many complicated reason why CSA and sexual assault victims don’t report it or sometimes even tell a single person for years or decades
You miss the point of the Duke Lacrosse example. Nobody is suggesting the cases are the same. I am suggesting the mentality of "guilty until proven innocent" is the same....and its gross.
Well for one there is apparently a video out there of the "victim" claiming it was entirely consensual. Now I don't know the context of said video or anything more than a lawyer for a player purports is existence.
As to your second statement - that is one of the stupidest things I've read on the internet lately.
What on earth does the fact that more victims suffer in silence have to do with anything? You think that because that is the case it is quite alright to just throw false accusations around? You think there is some sort of "equilibrium" that needs to be achieved?
Just a gross statement.
"Many such instances out there." Okay. What are the statistically relevant instances? Keep in mind that being found not-guilty doesn't = vindication. Beyond a reasonable doubt is a high bar to clear for cases that are inherently lacking in physical evidence once complaints are received.
Either way, you told on yourself with "...fame/money chasing women hurling powerful accusations in the hope of a payday or "me too" publicity."
Danarqhy
Registered User
It's actual the other way around, the burden to prove sexual assault/rape beyond any reasonable doubt inherently stacks the deck against the victim.
Now if you're talking about a violent rape in the middle of street caught on camera with the victim screaming for her life that might be different, but most of these cases revolve around a lot of grey areas and can often devolve into a he said she said thing, which overwhelmingly favors the accused.
You think it's stupid to say that rapists often get away with it?
Being found not guilty by definition is vindication. Reasonable doubt is a high bar to clear because removing someone's freedom is a very serious thing that needs an incredibly high bar.
I told on myself with the factual statement that there are money and fame chasing women in this world? lol.
You are assuming that everyone accused of it is a rapist and even if the evidence suggests otherwise to a jury of their peers that they are probably still guilty.
Just an incredibly stupid take.
PunchImlach is Alive
Registered User
There's also a message of her being asked if she went to the police which is famously something people do when they feel their actions are completely innocent.
Who suggested that girls shouldn't be taught how to protect themselves? But maybe this male-dominated forum finger-wagging at women by using the same arguments that the accused's legal defense will likely be using isn't the way.
Yukon Joe
Registered User
Speaking as an actual lawyer - I don't know nearly enough to actually have a take on the guilt or innocence of these players. You can't read a couple of news articles and suddenly have as much information as the court itself will hear.
I have said on multiple occasions - if the evidence points to her account being accurate then lock them up for a long time....but at least let the evidence come out in a court of law.
MXD
Partying Hard
- Oct 27, 2005
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You're deciding on the validity of the evidence before the trial.
I'll wait for the quote where I assumed that everyone accused is a rapist.
Are you still suggesting that many accused rapists don't get away with it?
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
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You've used the word "gross" to describe anyone who is suggesting there's evidence the guys were at fault, but yet don't seem to see the irony in the fact you're coming up with reasons why the girl could be money/fame/clout chasing.
archangel2
Registered User
- May 19, 2019
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and getting confused who the victim is
- May 3, 2016
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considering the whole point is discussion, not having the arguments presented that the defense may use seems silly.
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