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Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

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Deadly Dogma said:
yes, in the purely physical sense, what am I missing here?
are soldiers protecting civilians hating on the civilians?
I don't get your connection to seeing objective reality and hating on women
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Whens the last time soldiers protected civilians? Lol.

You being more wise than women and knowing what they should and shouldnt do, as if they were children, is inherently misogynistic. It doesnt mean youre a bad person, it just mean that you have introspection to make, just like everyone else.
 
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Melrose Munch said:
Well, they'll probably ban the open bar next time. Questions, some guys might do this again while sober, or not that drunk. How does society prevent THAT issue from happening again?
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By teaching men that women/females deserve respect and arent little frail things that need to be protected by their bigger and wiser counterparts.

The power dynamic between gender basically leads to a lot of heinous beliefs.
 
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Bear of Bad News said:
Please stop here, and don't everything after the "but".

It's like saying "No offense, but" or "I'm not a racist, but"...anything after the "but" is like a goddamn UNO Reverse card.

Send your research to a journalist and maybe we'll get somewhere.
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I'm not racist, but I like the fact that people aren't allowed to speculate here, it makes perfect sense. No offense, but I just think it's the smart move.
 
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Mrb1p said:
Whens the last time soldiers protected civilians? Lol.

You being more wise than women and knowing what they should and shouldnt do, as if they were children, is inherently misogynistic. It doesnt mean youre a bad person, it just mean that you have introspection to make, just like everyone else.
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but we would do the same thing for anyone.
lets simplify it to human, if we see a human doing something that may put them at risk, is it not the correct action to inform them or even try to make sure they don't meet unfortunate circumstances?
I know if I saw a women on her phone about to walk out and get hit by a bus, I'm going to stop or tackle her if need be, not worry that it's misogynistic that I even thought she needed to be saved.
 
Bear of Bad News said:
You're too kind - and I appreciate it (there's also about a dozen others who are less vocal than me about it, but they've got their shovels as well).
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how are we doing? are we staying within the lines or does it need to be reigned back a bit?
 
Deadly Dogma said:
but we would do the same thing for anyone.
lets simplify it to human, if we see a human doing something that may put them at risk, is it not the correct action to inform them or even try to make sure they don't meet unfortunate circumstances?
I know if I saw a women on her phone about to walk out and get hit by a bus, I'm going to stop or tackle her if need be, not worry that it's misogynistic that I even thought she needed to be saved.
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Two entirely different situations. One youd be saving a life, second youre placing part (if not the entirety of the blame, afterall if she wasnt there, this would not have happened) of the blame on her for getting gang-raped.

In your example, the women is to blame for not being aware of her surrounding, the more accurate example would be that you saved a women from being hit by a driver looking to ram her because hes off his hinges. In the 2nd situation you would never blame her. Why do so here?
 
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As a parent, a friend, a relative, telling a woman (or a man too, mind you) to be careful with alcohol and people in general when going out is never a bad thing.

But as a form of social guideline, it's pretty awful, since it doesn't put the emphasis on the party that's actually doing something dangerous and/or illegal.
 
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Mrb1p said:
Two entirely different situations. One youd be saving a life, second youre placing part (if not the entirety of the blame, afterall if she wasnt there, this would not have happened) of the blame on her for getting gang-raped.

In your example, the women is to blame for not being aware of her surrounding, the more accurate example would be that you saved a women from being hit by a driver looking to ram her because hes off his hinges. In the 2nd situation you would never blame her. Why do so here?
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I don't blame her, like unequivocally do not blame her.
you made the mental leap that talking about alcohol being involved is blaming her and it isn't. She should be able to get as drunk as she wants and hang out where she wants however the reality is predators will predate.
 
Deadly Dogma said:
I don't blame her, like unequivocally do not blame her.
you made the mental leap that talking about alcohol being involved is blaming her and it isn't. She should be able to get as drunk as she wants and hang out where she wants however the reality is predators will predate.
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What are you doing then? What did you mean then? Why did you mention it?
 
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Mrb1p said:
Two entirely different situations. One youd be saving a life, second youre placing part (if not the entirety of the blame, afterall if she wasnt there, this would not have happened) of the blame on her for getting gang-raped.

In your example, the women is to blame for not being aware of her surrounding, the more accurate example would be that you saved a women from being hit by a driver looking to ram her because hes off his hinges. In the 2nd situation you would never blame her. Why do so here?
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You're assuming she was gang-raped. Hard to place blame on someone for something we aren't even sure occured.
 
MXD said:
As a parent, a friend, a relative, telling a woman (or a man too, mind you) to be careful with alcohol and people in general when going out is never a bad thing.

But as a form of social guideline, it's pretty awful, since it doesn't put the emphasis on the party that's actually doing something dangerous and/or illegal.
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Exactly. And as a parent, I've been having the conversation with both my children for years now about what is and is not acceptable. Essentially that no means no and that at any time someone can decide to say no... so that's the end of it. I think I showed them both the "tea as consent" vid when they were in middle school because I knew that they had classmates who were already doing things way, way beyond what was happening in what I knew of middle school. Teach them to be safe, sure, and teach them to make sure others are safe in their presence too.
 
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Mrb1p said:
What are you doing then? What did you mean then? Why did you mention it?
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I mentioned it because I think that if none of the parties involved had been drinking, I don't think this would have happened.
The whole thing reeks of bad judgment.
What were the guys thinking that led them to belive anything they were doing was ok?
 
Deadly Dogma said:
I mentioned it because I think that if none of the parties involved had been drinking, I don't think this would have happened.
The whole thing reeks of bad judgment.
What were the guys thinking that led them to belive anything they were doing was ok?
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Perhaps she told them it was ok?
 
ERYX said:
What facts have been agreed upon by "both parties", as in the complainant and the accused hockey players. I'm not aware of any agreed statement of facts being filed with any court. There was an out-of-court settlement in civil court, but as it was out of court, no facts were agreed.

Is there something further that I missed? Please share a link as I'd be interested to see what has already been admitted (if anything) by these players.
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www.theglobeandmail.com

Court filing reveals new details about alleged Hockey Canada group sexual assault

Some sections of the document have been redacted, but it provides the fullest picture to date of what allegedly transpired in the early morning hours of June 19, 2018
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com

The players, through their lawyers, released statements. The general facts surrounding what happened appear to be agreed upon (how EM met Player 1, that they had sex, that other guys showed up, etc) between E.M. and the accused. Some other stuff you can probably deduce from what the players didn't say, such as they didn't refute the claims that the players brought golf clubs (can probably easily be proven with surveillance video).

Player 2 also admitted that he didn't even talk to E.M. before engaging in sexual acts, which IMO is a huge deal considering E.M. says she never gave consent to the extra players. I'm sure there will be a complicit or tacit consent argument made in court though. There's lots other stuff in there, that's the best read on the matter I've seen so far.
 
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Deadly Dogma said:
even then, they spit on her etc.
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Some girls are into some weird stuff man. Or maybe it is as she described and they need to be thrown in prison.

There are just far to many instances of peoples lives being ruined by false accusations to simply take her word for it. Let both sides present evidence and we will see what shakes out.
 
A lot of dudes "well, actually"ing in here with "The players are 100% at fault...but...."

Sexual violence against women is not an outlier, and it doesn't happen because women drink or dress provocatively. It happens at these rates because men continue to get away with it while other men pull punches in speaking/acting against it. The excuses are conditioned.
 
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