Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[daver]

If drinking causes you to uncontrollably r*pe people, then they would pull it off the shelves. It doesn't hold up as an excuse whatsoever.

Who is saying it is an excuse?

 

[Number8]

He’s not wrong. It happens in every sport, every business, everyone who has power and everywhere in the world. Sad but true.

This was his direct quote.

"They're just getting scape goated because they're hockey players with nice incomes."

At first I thought --- hmmm, if this guy knows so much, then I think we should let the police know that this is a dead end and the case should be closed. But then I thought -- hmmmm, but what if he's just pulling it out of his ass and knows f*** all?????

It was a terrible dilemna for me.....

But now that you've confirmed that the people in power in this world are so often, and so sadly, victimized I feel much better. Except for the powerful who are being so unfairly victimized, of course.

 

[Rich Nixon]

If drinking causes you to uncontrollably r*pe people, then they would pull it off the shelves. It doesn't hold up as an excuse whatsoever.

I'm one of the last people you'll find defending this behavior, so don't interpret this as that. But alcohol dramatically alters your decision-making and judgement, and we're talking about a group of drunk teenagers behaving in a dangerous and pack-like manner. You likely had a number of participants who carried no intent, were not processing the gravity of their actions, and would not have found themselves participating were they sober.

We do know based on reporting that one individual seemed intent on creating this scenario, having implied it to another woman prior. We don't know if the rest were all complicit in seeking and encouraging that. The combination of peer pressure and alcohol-compromised faculties is a very toxic one.

Again, this is not a defense at all. But alcohol does, indeed, contribute to scenarios in which people do things they know are wrong or do them without realizing how wrong they are. Which is why drinking is such a serious f***ing responsibility, and why people need to understand who they are and what their limits are before bringing a bottle to their lips.

If the court finds one 'not guilty' and NHL does not allow them back then I hope they sue the league and anyone who treats them with prejudice.
Player 1 or not..if you aren't convicted you get to live 'normally'

Is playing in the NHL "living normally"? The NHL has no obligation to let anyone play in its league, it is a business. Unless a scenario plays out where a player has concrete proof that they were somewhere else entirely, no team is going to want the PR headache of bringing in a player who was involved in this situation. A pro hockey contract isn't a human right, it's a rare privilege, and I don't see many scenarios where the benefits outweigh the costs for the league or any given team.

 

[4thline]

That really doesn't hold up. There's plenty of guys who have no trouble drinking without turning into creeps and weirdos. If you don't have self control as a person sober, you should probably not be drinking. It's not some strange elixir that magically turns you into a different person.

Who said anything about becoming creeps and wierdos, turning into a different person, uncontrollable rape, or being an excuse?

If drinking causes you to uncontrollably r*pe people, then they would pull it off the shelves. It doesn't hold up as an excuse whatsoever.

I reminded the guy that drunken casual sex carries more risks of his sons inadvertently doing something wrong rather than being falsely accused of something wrong

 

[Saskatoon]

Obviously. If they were accepting a hypothetical deal though, you'd certainly think it would be something pretty minor with no possiblity of jail

If that's your line of thinking, their careers are already over then. Being acquitted of more serious charges in a trial won't do anything to move perception. Perhaps even the case being thrown out wouldn't either.

Other than a potential starting goalie, the guys we think being charged are all role players anyway. That goalie has been very up and down in his career, too.

In terms of getting another chance, the talent of the players matters, whether right or wrong.

Anything with a criminal record and they will have a hard time travelling back to the US

 

[Number8]

If the court finds one 'not guilty' and NHL does not allow them back then I hope they sue the league and anyone who treats them with prejudice.
Player 1 or not..if you aren't convicted you get to live 'normally'

Wow. Not sure how old you are, or how experienced you are in life. Regardless, you have one huge dose of reality coming your way. Sometimes life doesn't work the way you think it does. There's power and there's power. The the "1-5 boys" don't possess that kind of power. Not even close. If they were as talented as one or two of their Team Canada teammates??? Maaaaaaaaaaayyybe???? But sadly for them they are not. Just some frat bro types who, at best, got their dicks caught in the door hinge.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

Who is saying it is an excuse?

Also, and more importantly- increased risk of committing non-violent sexual misconduct, on a spectrum from simple impairment of their emotional intelligence/ ability to accurately read and appropriately react to the behaviour of their sexual partner, all the way to impaired judgement/loosening of inhibition causing them to act in ways they wouldn't normally.

If you're the type of person worried about an increased risk of committing non-violent sexual misconduct when you drink, do everyone a favor and don't drink.

 

[inthewings]

Is playing in the NHL "living normally"? The NHL has no obligation to let anyone play in its league, it is a business. Unless a scenario plays out where a player has concrete proof that they were somewhere else entirely, no team is going to want the PR headache of bringing in a player who was involved in this situation. A pro hockey contract isn't a human right, it's a rare privilege, and I don't see many scenarios where the benefits outweigh the costs for the league or any given team.

Doubly so for a bottom-6 talent who will be in his late 20s at the time and is about to spend at least a year away from competitive hockey (assuming player 1 isn't a goalie). The juice won't be anywhere close to worth the squeeze for the league, regardless of the outcome. Unless, as you say, one of these 5 can prove they weren't in the room or something.

 

[4thline]

If you're the type of person worried about an increased risk of committing non-violent sexual misconduct when you drink, do everyone a favor and don't

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't had your morning coffee and aren't fully processing.

This is super basic, commonly accepted stuff.

Growing Up, Hooking Up, and Drinking: A Review of Uncommitted Sexual Behavior and Its Association With Alcohol Use and Related Consequences Among Adolescents and Young Adults in the United States - PMC

Hookups are uncommitted sexual encounters that range from kissing to intercourse and occur between individuals in whom there is no current dating relationship and no expressed or acknowledged expectations of a relationship following the hookup. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Alcohol myopia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Alcohol adds risk to casual sexual encounters. If you're warning sons about those risks, the effect on their own actions is a bigger concern than being falsely accused.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I don't think the onus is on women to be aware of bad situations. They're allowed to get drunk and should be able to do that without worrying that like half a dozen random guys show up doing whatever they want to them. Is that something guys have to worry about? If she left a bar inebriated with one person and sobered up to way more than she bargained for, the bad situation she found herself in was hanging around hockey players.

While no organization can realistically be expected to be a parent for these guys, I think it's important to remind them that hockey is a fringe sport. No one outside their bubble gives a f*ck about them and no one is coming to save them. Screwing up when you're a nobody doesn't even give the court of public opinion. It just makes women want to cover their drinks when hockey players are around.

Yeah I agree. When I said women have to be aware of putting themselves in bad situations, I meant in general, not for this specific incident. No reason if you’re the girl to think all of a sudden a bunch of guys are going to show up because the first player called them. That’s not normal behavior for the first player and can’t be accounted for.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Anything with a criminal record and they will have a hard time travelling back to the US

1) The average Joe might. An NHL player who has to travel there to work, would not.

2) Who said they'd be left with a criminal record? For first time offenders in non-violent crimes, Most often plea deals come with a discharge and no permanent public criminal record.

 

[Rich Nixon]

1) The average Joe might. An NHL player who has to travel there to work, would not.

2) Who said they'd be left with a criminal record? For first time offenders in non-violent crimes, Most often plea deals come with a discharge and no permanent public criminal record

Do you know what the word "assault" means?

 

[LTIR]

Wow. Not sure how old you are, or how experienced you are in life. Regardless, you have one huge dose of reality coming your way. Sometimes life doesn't work the way you think it does. There's power and there's power. The the "1-5 boys" don't possess that kind of power. Not even close. If they were as talented as one or two of their Team Canada teammates??? Maaaaaaaaaaayyybe???? But sadly for them they are not. Just some frat bro types who, at best, got their dicks caught in the door hinge.

Old enough to remember MacTavish taking a life while drunk but still managing a great career and is still employed by SN.

 

[MXD]

1) The average Joe might. An NHL player who has to travel there to work, would not.

2) Who said they'd be left with a criminal record? For first time offenders in non-violent crimes, Most often plea deals come with a discharge and no permanent public criminal record.

Errh, what possible infraction/plea are you referring to exactly?

 

[Edgelord]

Do you know what the word "assault" means?

not all assaults are violent, you can poke someone and catch an assault charge

 

[Number8]

1) The average Joe might. An NHL player who has to travel there to work, would not.

2) Who said they'd be left with a criminal record? For first time offenders in non-violent crimes, Most often plea deals come with a discharge and no permanent public criminal record.

f*** me.....

Again, for emphasis, f*** me..........

This place blows my mind sometimes.

 

[Rich Nixon]

no all assaults are violent, you can poke someone and catch an assault charge

That's still a violent crime, it's just a very low degree of violence.

Anyway, any charge related to sexual assault would be considered a violent crime. You aren't plea-dealing your way to a clean record on a sexual assault charge.

 

[Edgelord]

f*** me.....

Again, for emphasis, f*** me..........

This place blows my mind sometimes.

just for clarity rape isn't always violent, violent rapes will usually get an aggrivated sexual charge which is way more serious

 

[MXD]

That's still a violent crime, it's just a very low degree of violence.

Anyway, any charge related to sexual assault would be considered a violent crime. You aren't plea-dealing your way to a clean record on a sexual assault charge.

I mean, the least "violent" count I could think of here would probably be, I dunno, Forcible Confinement?

 

[Edgelord]

That's still a violent crime, it's just a very low degree of violence.

Anyway, any charge related to sexual assault would be considered a violent crime. You aren't plea-dealing your way to a clean record on a sexual assault charge.

oh 100% agree, only way I can see that is if the crown doesn't want to go to trial and offers a sweatheart deal to avoid trial

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Are the players co-defendants or is it every man for himself? I definitely think player 1 is going to get the brunt of the criticism and blame. Wouldn’t surprise me if the other players throw him under the bus

I’m curious if there have been other incidents like this for the 4 other players, like was this a normal time, or was player 1 looking out for a few players of the team that weren’t as good with the ladies and wanted to get them some action. Not that it makes the 4 invitee players look better, but I’m wondering if any of their defenses will be of the Im a bumbling idiot and have never interacted with girls type

 

[hamzarocks]

If your drinking two things you dont do are

1. Drive

2. Have sex.

Even if the sex starts consensual 100%, your partner may change their mind in between and you will have less restraint/control at that pt. Also of they dont change their mind mid way, you are more likely not to use a condom and end up getting the girl with a baby when neither of you want/planned for that.

Havent followed the story behind 2018 Hockey Canada issue but its pretty simple...

If your enjoying a night drinking the cost of that is your not driving and not havinf sex that same night. It should be standard

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Do you know what the word "assault" means?

Semantics. This obviousliy wasnt' a back alley rape with a weapon. I was referring to cases like that, murder, armed robbery, etc. more serious crimes....

There's a good chance imo that if a deal was taken in this case, it would come with a discharge and no permanent public criminal record. Just my opinion.

 

[MXD]

oh 100% agree, only way I can see that is if the crown doesn't want to go to trial and offers a sweatheart deal to avoid trial

I mean, WTF could they even offer? The only thing I could see (without being aware of the full record of course) that would possibly be acceptable for both the Prosecution and the Accused is Forcible confinement.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Old enough to remember MacTavish taking a life while drunk but still managing a great career and is still employed by SN.

I’m not saying drunk driving is okay but there is a difference between that and rape. It’s not cool but plenty of people have got behind the wheel after drinking a few; they never think anything bad will happen. A rapist is going out of his way to rape. It’s the intent that matters and the maliciousness. One is a predator, the other made a big mistake