Fire Steve Briere (Goalie Coach)

[HamiltonNHL]

It’s not the f***ing goalie coach people give me a break lol.

we know.

You can't change the goalies ... so ...

There needs to be a change

 

[SeaOfBlue]

No disagreement there, but that's not fast as in... going to save the season fast. That's basically the season is screwed, sell off UFA's, and move on.

IDK, if you find the right guy who clicks, you would be surprised.

Especially since even if Briere does nothing or stays, I find it hard they keep up their same level of **** play for the rest of the year.

 

[makbeer]

Guys talking about the fundamentals…the goalie coach had to be consulted when bringing in Mrazek right?

He must have watched him play and felt comfortable offering a monster deal based on the film of him.

As a goalie coach if you watch Mrazek you should not feel comfortable giving him a multi year deal.

Secondly - both Mrazek and Campbell show the same lack of attention to detail. That has to come down to coaching to a certain extent. We work with goalies all the time to make the minor adjustments needed to reduce leaky goals.

Third - both Mrazek and Campbell overplay tight angles and challenge on shots that do not need to be challenged because of simple geometry. That is one of the easier adjustments to make in a goalie’s game.

 

[Stephen]

Guys talking about the fundamentals…the goalie coach had to be consulted when bringing in Mrazek right?

He must have watched him play and felt comfortable offering a monster deal based on the film of him.

As a goalie coach if you watch Mrazek you should not feel comfortable giving him a multi year deal.

Secondly - both Mrazek and Campbell show the same lack of attention to detail. That has to come down to coaching to a certain extent. We work with goalies all the time to make the minor adjustments needed to reduce leaky goals.

Third - both Mrazek and Campbell overplay tight angles and challenge on shots that do not need to be challenged because of simple geometry. That is one of the easier adjustments to make in a goalie’s game.

The guys at In Goal quoted Clear Sight analytics and suggested maybe Toronto liked Mrazek based on the fact that he typically thrives in the defensive environment the Leafs play. But scouting Mrazek has been a massive failure. I can only imagine some goalie hugger in the organization overvalues athleticism when they see Mrazek's wild acrobatic style and doesn't know a lick about modern blocking techniques. Kind of like their pro scouts who seemed to overvalue little puck moving defensemen who could dangle a few years ago. For every Sandin or Niemela, there's just a truckload of guys who are going to serve no role at the pro level.

 

[Menzinger]

Campbell's problem is mental first and foremost not technical. His ability to get back into form or not will in part be a big test for the coaches.

 

[Superstar]

yeah but the puck went in off his ass, what is he supposed to do

Apparently nothing...

 

[makbeer]

The guys at In Goal quoted Clear Sight analytics and suggested maybe Toronto liked Mrazek based on the fact that he typically thrives in the defensive environment the Leafs play. But scouting Mrazek has been a massive failure. I can only imagine some goalie hugger in the organization overvalues athleticism when they see Mrazek's wild acrobatic style and doesn't know a lick about modern blocking techniques. Kind of like their pro scouts who seemed to overvalue little puck moving defensemen who could dangle a few years ago. For every Sandin or Niemela, there's just a truckload of guys who are going to serve no role at the pro level.

I am trying to imagine anyone thinking a goalie who punts rebounds all over the ice and plays hyper aggressive would work well with the Leafs defense. There is some next level incompetency going on, or people really just making decisions on spreadsheets.

 

[TGB]

Bernier and Reimer too, but only for one year. McElhinney. Rittich, but once again not for that long.

It was enough in the case of Reimer. I remember in his first game he stood on his feet like the whole game and just kept blocking everything. Think he shut out that game, too, and was lights out for the first little while.

It was not long after that he was flopping and flailing like everyone else we've ever gotten. Clearly something happened there.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It was enough in the case of Reimer. I remember in his first game he stood on his feet like the whole game and just kept blocking everything. Think he shut out that game, too, and was lights out for the first little while.

It was not long after that he was flopping and flailing like everyone else we've ever gotten. Clearly something happened there.

Reimer already had a few years of experience under his belt before Briere got involved.

 

[TGB]

Reimer already had a few years of experience under his belt before Briere got involved.

Ah. K. Time flies during Covid.

Still, his approach changed radically, so that could suggest it's not just Briere. Someone is turning Leafs goalies into electric ragdolls.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Look at Anderson now , who has this team developed in goal. None have outperformed. He has failed. Nobody improves.

Andersen?

I think you have to look at the defence not the goaltending then.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Ah. K. Time flies during Covid.

Still, his approach changed radically, so that could suggest it's not just Briere. Someone is turning Leafs goalies into electric ragdolls.

IDK, our previous goalie coach was apparently not great. Doesn't mean this one is any better.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Andersen?

I think you have to look at the defence not the goaltending then.

Andy was a mental wreck, lack of confidence as time went on. Yes our d was a problem....still is, but my point is he started off better than he ended here. Our coaches NEVER have success improving or developing goalies...for years,

 

[LeafGrief]

Very clear that we need a new goalie coach. The list of goalies who's careers have taken nosedives here is getting long. It's more than just the goaltending coach, but Freddy rebounding like this in Carolina is a very severe indictment of our goaltending programs.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Very clear that we need a new goalie coach. The list of goalies who's careers have taken nosedives here is getting long. It's more than just the goaltending coach, but Freddy rebounding like this in Carolina is a very severe indictment of our goaltending programs.

Also highlights the high danger chances our D gives up. The don't clear the net enough and they stick check
Friedmann talked about it here: NHL Rumour Mill: Hampus Lindholm a target of significant interest as insiders agree defense remains a top priority for Maple Leafs amid goaltending crisis

One of the things we are still coming to grips with with the whole analytics movement is what is trustworthy and what isn’t, and what models are better? What is available privately that isn’t available publicly? One of the difficulties I have is that if you talk to people who do a lot of the work, some of them just clobber each other’s work. You’re like, “What do I buy into with all of this?”

I have had a couple of teams send me information to say, “Yes, it is a lot on the goaltending, but if you take a look at the numbers since January 1st, Toronto’s defense against the rush and in the slot has not been very good.” I think this is a combination of team defense / goaltending.

When Dubas has said that defense is the number-one priority, I still think he considers that. I think he wants to upgrade the blue line. Now, I just think, “Is he going to have to do two things?”

 

[D00bis]

Yes. Fire. Now

 

[therealkoho]

And replace him with whom?

it doesn't matter one bit, if the player has the talent and the coach knows how to coax the best out of the guy and keep his head on straight, then he'll be a successful coach.

There was once a guy by the name of Francois Allaire and he had a great kid in JrA, and between he and that kid they developed a style that is still being used today, but and it's a big big but, in fact it's a humongous but, if the player hasn't played that way ever and he's a fully realized NHLer than changing that player or "trying" to change that player is a waste of everyones' time and a more than likely waste of the goaltender's career.

Allaire had great success with Roy as we all know, and also did well with a butterfly guy who wasn't having a whole lot of success trying to be something he wasn't and that was a reaction goalie(think Giguerre). No different than Gentleman James who was a drop, flop butterfly hybrid athletic type of goaltender and "The Monster" who was looking like a Hasek type reaction goaltender and who had put up mind-blowing numbers 1.96 GAA and a Save % of .932 in the regular season. In the playoffs, he bettered his statistics, posting a 1.03 GAA, a save percentage of .961 and five shutouts in 13 games. Having allowed just 14 goals in 13 playoff games, he led Färjestads BK to the league title, also being named the MVP of the playoffs in the process as a reaction type goalie.

Allaire tried changing both those guys to being strictly butterflyer's, and t's easy to see why no one questioned him, because it's where he had his biggest success. Had he not had that willing pupil there was speculation that Paddy may not have had quite the career that he did! As it turns out. Allaire coached one guy into the league(Roy) and coached one guy pretty much out of the league(Gustavsson) and almost coached Jimmy Reimer back to Morweena.

 

[ShaneFalco]

And replace him with whom?

Pete Walker

 

[therealkoho]

First off, my apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere in one of the many other threads. However I did a search and couldn't find any recent topics dedicated to the goalie coach.

Anyway, this guys gotta go. How Briere even landed an NHL goalie coaching job in the first place really blows my mind. He was a Jr. A goalie coach previously, and save for one year of coaching Cam Talbot in Alabama (NCAA), had never worked with any other NHL caliber goalie. I have nothing against the NAHL, its a great feeder league for the NCAA. However any highly skilled player thats going the college route is probably in the USHL or BCHL or AJHL. None of the goalies Briere coached at the junior level went on to the NHL, which is not what you'd expect from a goalie coach that made the giant leap from the NAHL directly to the NHL. Have a look at his EP page yourself: Steve Briere at eliteprospects.com

Now its clear Andersen came from a Ducks team that knew what they were doing with goalies. He showed up and was fantastic his first couple seasons with the Leafs. Then his play slowly went down the drain. He left for Carolina and now has become a Vezina contender. Funny how that works.

Enter Jack Campbell. Here's a guy who had all the talent in the world in juniors, with a work ethic to back it up. He has some mental fragility issues sure, but he's an extremely talented and capable goalie. His career derailed under the care of the Dallas Stars, and was rebuilt by Ranford and Imoo in LA. (But oh no we can't have Imoo around, he liked some mean tweets. Much thanks to Dubas for saving our goalies from such a terrible monster and sticking with Briere).

If you want to see what proper goalie development looks like, look no further than the Kings organization. Ranford and Imoo can be credited with developing a league high 6 NHL goalies (Quick, Bernier, Jones, Kuemper, Campbell, Petersen), and Campbell has given them lots of credit for his resurgence.

The damage is been done to Campbell, who's game is dropping off much like Andersen's did under Briere's coaching. All the good work done by LA to rebuild Campbell is slowly being undone.

Back to Briere. Here's a guy thats ruined at least two NHL goalies in Andersen and Campbell, who's to say what he's done to some of the prospects like Woll and Scott yet too. I ask again how did he even get hired in the first place, let alone stay with the team for 7 years and counting? Most NHL goalie coaches get hired either from other NHL teams or after working their way up with successful stints in either the AHL or CHL. But not our man Briere.

If Briere's professional track record isn't enough, let me offer a personal anecdote. I was a Jr A goalie (As an aside, I actually played for the junior team in Idaho when Campbell got sent down to the ECHL team, so I've met him a few times and got to see him practice. He's a phenomenal dude but I'm sure most of you already knew that). Being from Winnipeg, I went to one of Briere's camps when I was younger. His style of teaching didn't mesh well with me. From the abundance of time spent on the mental side (Where if you didn't think the game just like him, you were wrong) to his dictator style of coaching, it just wasn't for me. At the NHL (and even junior level) your job as a goalie coach isn't to completely rebuild a goalie (in most cases at least), its to simply fine tune their game. These goalies didn't make it to that level only to be wrong the whole time. But yet he insists on making the guys do it his way, which to put it simply, is complete shit.

Thats enough of a rant for now. I'll leave you all with one last gem, that I'm sure has been posted here before. But for those who haven't yet seen it, I give you Briere's goalie "business" plan. Enjoy.

Diju play with Lance on the Steelheads?

 

[JKG33]

Diju play with Lance on the Steelheads?

Herning?

 

[Bluelines]

Its not necessarily all on the goalie coach. Look at teams like Carolina and Florida, when goalies play for them they look like upper end goalies, when they leave they look like bottom end barely backup level goaltending... there is a reason for this and its not the goalie coach (it's the head coach).. how you play has as much to do with the HC game plan as how the Goalie coach coaches his goalie's.

If your goalie stinks and you reduce the number of SOG, all of a sudden his shortfalls don't look so bad. Why is Keefe not playing ugly low chance hockey? The difference for the Leafs between 3 GA and 4.5 GA is 10 shots, you get the team to block shots play low chance hockey for the first 2 periods then you let them fly in the 3rd. If you start teh 3rd 0-0 and there is a 20 minute track meet in the 3rd period for who scores the most goals, I'll bet on the Leafs 99/100 times.

SV%	SOG	SV	GA
0.850	35	29.75	5.3
0.850	30	25.5	4.5
0.850	25	21.25	3.8
0.850	20	17	3.0

This recent stretch of mediocre play, has as much to do with Keefe inability to adjust as it does with Briere's inability to coach his goalies out of their funk.

We've seen different versions of rinse wash repeat when the Leafs are going the wrong way, Keefes answer to every thing is Marner/Matthews 1st line, Tavares/Nylander 2nd line , Rielly/ Brodie and Muzzin/Holl or when he gets really desperate Tavares/Mathews/Marner

 

[Scott r]

I'm not sure about this. A number of top so called coordinators have gone to become nfl coaches and it didn't work. Not sure the magic you talk about is in existence. If we assume as you said Campbell was a top junior goalie. Well he did it without a great goalie coach. Keith hernandez ny Mets he improved by listening to his dad NOT the batting coach h

 

[Nylanderthal]

If I was going to work in a very public place, I'd first totally delete every social media account first. People are too crazy nowadays and out for your blood, no mater what.

Sounds like something someone who’s posted shitty points of view would say.

 

[Gallagbi]

I am trying to imagine anyone thinking a goalie who punts rebounds all over the ice and plays hyper aggressive would work well with the Leafs defense. There is some next level incompetency going on, or people really just making decisions on spreadsheets.

Worked pretty well for Soupy early on, but you need to make the basic saves. Even Mac was pretty chaotic in net, albeit successful here

We also saw a relatively quiet goalie in Andersen go through long stretches of allowing bad goals on routine plays.

At the end of the day, we're seeing a lot of really basic opportunities end up in our net. Not sure it is style dependent.

 

[McSnypsky]

Worked pretty well for Soupy early on, but you need to make the basic saves. Even Mac was pretty chaotic in net, albeit successful here

We also saw a relatively quiet goalie in Andersen go through long stretches of allowing bad goals on routine plays.

At the end of the day, we're seeing a lot of really basic opportunities end up in our net. Not sure it is style dependent.

Then maybe we need a goalie that's just simply mentally strong enough to be focused for 60mins. I don't know how you evaluate that though...