Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[GameNight]

What is Rosen is talking about? "There's a lot more going on and they're in some real trouble"

What? That Rob Blake didn't make the PLD trade?

It was Marc Bergevin and/or with Luc Robitaille?

Luc has completely destroyed his Legacy with the Kings. It is as bad as Blake's was, which is now even worse.

 

[Lt Dan]

What is Rosen is talking about? "There's a lot more going on and they're in some real trouble"

What? That Rob Blake didn't make the PLD trade?

It was Marc Bergevin and/or with Luc Robitaille?

Luc has completely destroyed his Legacy with the Kings. It is as bad as Blake's was, which is now even worse.

 

[BigBrown]

I still like Luc, I just don't want him as a manager of anything other than cutting ribbons and shaking hands.

I think Blake takes the fall but the direction of the team stays the same, ie to keep trying to be competitive despite there being no hope of becoming a true contender. A grim thought.

 

[LAKings88]

If a rookie doughty or Kopitar caliber player was coming up in the draft and the only way to acquire that player was to open Clarke and Byfield up then you absolutely make that move. Byfield/Clarke is never going to have their star power and star power is a must in the NHL to be successful.

Those two will be stars. Just stop.

 

[kovacro]

Tapping my foot like Sonic The Hedgehog waiting for Blake to be blown up.

 

[Lt Dan]

I still like Luc, I just don't want him as a manager of anything other than cutting ribbons and shaking hands.

I think Blake takes the fall but the direction of the team stays the same, ie to keep trying to be competitive despite there being no hope of becoming a true contender. A grim thought.

Luc is abusing our feelings for him as a player.
He has been a Crystal Pepsi level failure

 

[KINGS17]

I'm sorry, but Luc Robitaille is not equipped well enough in terms of strategic thinking to run the Kings. He should be fired today and have no role going forward with this franchise.

I don't even want him around as a team mascot any longer. He has used up his good will with me. The Kings can no longer afford his influence at any level in the organization.

 

[Omni Owl]

As a Habs fan I can't comment on Blake because I don't know enough of his history.

I can comment on BargainBin. If he is in your organization, then it's not a serious organization. Period.

Use that as a guide...

Agreed. The way I hear Habs fans talk about him makes me wonder why he's even in the Kings org in the first place. It's clear the whole office and coaching staff needs a change, but I see them getting at least one more year. This would most definitely put too much strain and pressure on everyone, resulting in a catastrophic collapse.

The fact that Luc has ties to PLD's agent is extremely sus. He obviously got a sweetheart deal when he didn't earn it.

 

[Lt Dan]

As a Habs fan I can't comment on Blake because I don't know enough of his history.

I can comment on BargainBin. If he is in your organization, then it's not a serious organization. Period.

Use that as a guide...

All you need to know about Blake is that he puts milk in the bowl before he pours in cereal.
A true savage.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

On playoff teams

Knies walked out of college onto TO's top six

Brendon Brisson was getting minutes on a veteran laden VGK team

Holmstrom and Bolduc in NYI

Beecher and Lohrei in boston (though relegated when others are healthy)


On less than playoff teams

Slafkovsky immediately played on MTL's top line

Lane Hutson walked right in

thosre are literally all from the first 8 teams i looked at

It happens A TON

Respectfully...

Knies is playing above Robertson and Dewar on the depth chart... That's not exactly an example of a young player breaking down doors / pushing established NHLers down the lineup. It's more an example of the Leafs having cap issues & lacking depth at left wing and needing players like Knies and Robertson to step in. Brisson played 15 games and averaged 12 mins of ice time (played in a bottom 6 role). Again, not an example of a young player bursting onto the scene and pushing established NHLers down the lineup & forcing themselves into an elevated role due to sheer talent/performance. Holmstrom and Bolduc also don't really apply for NYI. Neither player leap frogged established & healthy NHL players to force themselves up the lineup - they saw games & ice time in limited roles. Same for Beecher and Lohrei honestly.

Slafkovsky was a 1st overall pick for a bad MTL team... Of course they're going to carve out a top 6 role for him. Again, it's not like Slafkovsky was just so incredibly good that he forced the coaching staff to give him an elevated role - He was put in that position intentionally. For Lane Hutson, same sort of thing as the others. Sure, he stepped in... but on a bad team where his biggest competition for minutes on MTL's left side was Mike Matheson. Him stepping in to an elevated role is more a product of MTL lacking depth.

So unfortunately RJ, none of your examples qualify.

My point was that the Spurgeon injury and lack of depth on Minnesota's right side were two major factors in creating an opportunity for Faber to step into an elevated role with the Wild. And that those two major factors wouldn't have existed in LA - Therefore, it's pretty valid to conclude that Faber wouldn't have had the same opportunities if he had stayed in LA (or if he had played for a completely healthy Minnesota team or another NHL team with strong depth on the right side of their defense).

And then my point became: It's pretty damn rare for a young player to just be so ridiculously good that they force themselves up the lineup and leapfrog proven & healthy NHL players in the process. More often than not, when a young player steps in right away and/or gets moved up the lineup - it's a product of injuries or just general lack of depth that create that opportunity - Rather than it being a product of just "hey this guys so good let's play him in a top 6 role over this established NHLer who's already proven to be a decent top 6 forward".

 

[Statto]

Yep. Bergevin in for Blake is just the organization refusing to learn from its mistakes. Which is one of the reasons I am even more worried than before.

It’d be out of the frying pan and into the fryer. At least the whole forum board would be united again…

I still like Luc, I just don't want him as a manager of anything other than cutting ribbons and shaking hands.

I think Blake takes the fall but the direction of the team stays the same, ie to keep trying to be competitive despite there being no hope of becoming a true contender. A grim thought.

Sure he’s a playing legend, probably a great guy but also terrible in his position.

 

[Lt Dan]

Agreed. The way I hear Habs fans talk about him makes me wonder why he's even in the Kings org in the first place. It's clear the whole office and coaching staff needs a change, but I see them getting at least one more year. This would most definitely put too much strain and pressure on everyone, resulting in a catastrophic collapse.

The fact that Luc has ties to PLD's agent is extremely sus. He obviously got a sweetheart deal when he didn't earn it.

Bergevin is his childhood friend

Nepotism and arrogance have been this organization's downfall

 

[bland]

What is Rosen is talking about? "There's a lot more going on and they're in some real trouble"

What? That Rob Blake didn't make the PLD trade?

It was Marc Bergevin and/or with Luc Robitaille?

Luc has completely destroyed his Legacy with the Kings. It is as bad as Blake's was, which is now even worse.

Bergevin is also lifelong friends with...

Pat Brisson.

Those two conspired a deal to bring Pacioretty from Bergevin's Habs to the Kings, which fell apart because Pacioretty didn't like the extension Brisson was encouraging him to sign - and.Pacioretty fired him.

 

[DAkings20]

Kings have not won a playoff series in 10 years......

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Respectfully...

Knies is playing above Robertson and Dewar on the depth chart... That's not exactly an example of a young player breaking down doors / pushing established NHLers down the lineup. It's more an example of the Leafs having cap issues & lacking depth at left wing and needing players like Knies and Robertson to step in. Brisson played 15 games and averaged 12 mins of ice time (played in a bottom 6 role). Again, not an example of a young player bursting onto the scene and pushing established NHLers down the lineup & forcing themselves into an elevated role due to sheer talent/performance. Holmstrom and Bolduc also don't really apply for NYI. Neither player leap frogged established & healthy NHL players to force themselves up the lineup - they saw games & ice time in limited roles. Same for Beecher and Lohrei honestly.

Slafkovsky was a 1st overall pick for a bad MTL team... Of course they're going to carve out a top 6 role for him. Again, it's not like Slafkovsky was just so incredibly good that he forced the coaching staff to give him an elevated role - He was put in that position intentionally. For Lane Hutson, same sort of thing as the others. Sure, he stepped in... but on a bad team where his biggest competition for minutes on MTL's left side was Mike Matheson. Him stepping in to an elevated role is more a product of MTL lacking depth.

So unfortunately RJ, none of your examples qualify.

My point was that the Spurgeon injury and lack of depth on Minnesota's right side were two major factors in creating an opportunity for Faber to step into an elevated role with the Wild. And that those two major factors wouldn't have existed in LA - Therefore, it's pretty valid to conclude that Faber wouldn't have had the same opportunities if he had stayed in LA (or if he had played for a completely healthy Minnesota team or another NHL team with strong depth on the right side of their defense).

And then my point became: It's pretty damn rare for a young player to just be so ridiculously good that they force themselves up the lineup and leapfrog proven & healthy NHL players in the process. More often than not, when a young player steps in right away and/or gets moved up the lineup - it's a product of injuries or just general lack of depth that create that opportunity - Rather than it being a product of just "hey this guys so good let's play him in a top 6 role over this established NHLer who's already proven to be a decent top 6 forward".

Great post, too bad it's lost on people who don't let facts get in the way of a healthy narrative.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Respectfully...

Knies is playing above Robertson and Dewar on the depth chart... That's not exactly an example of a young player breaking down doors / pushing established NHLers down the lineup. It's more an example of the Leafs having cap issues & lacking depth at left wing and needing players like Knies and Robertson to step in. Brisson played 15 games and averaged 12 mins of ice time (played in a bottom 6 role). Again, not an example of a young player bursting onto the scene and pushing established NHLers down the lineup & forcing themselves into an elevated role due to sheer talent/performance. Holmstrom and Bolduc also don't really apply for NYI. Neither player leap frogged established & healthy NHL players to force themselves up the lineup - they saw games & ice time in limited roles. Same for Beecher and Lohrei honestly.

Slafkovsky was a 1st overall pick for a bad MTL team... Of course they're going to carve out a top 6 role for him. Again, it's not like Slafkovsky was just so incredibly good that he forced the coaching staff to give him an elevated role - He was put in that position intentionally. For Lane Hutson, same sort of thing as the others. Sure, he stepped in... but on a bad team where his biggest competition for minutes on MTL's left side was Mike Matheson. Him stepping in to an elevated role is more a product of MTL lacking depth.

So unfortunately RJ, none of your examples qualify.

My point was that the Spurgeon injury and lack of depth on Minnesota's right side were two major factors in creating an opportunity for Faber to step into an elevated role with the Wild. And that those two major factors wouldn't have existed in LA - Therefore, it's pretty valid to conclude that Faber wouldn't have had the same opportunities if he had stayed in LA (or if he had played for a completely healthy Minnesota team or another NHL team with strong depth on the right side of their defense).

And then my point became: It's pretty damn rare for a young player to just be so ridiculously good that they force themselves up the lineup and leapfrog proven & healthy NHL players in the process. More often than not, when a young player steps in right away and/or gets moved up the lineup - it's a product of injuries or just general lack of depth that create that opportunity - Rather than it being a product of just "hey this guys so good let's play him in a top 6 role over this established NHLer who's already proven to be a decent top 6 forward".

No offense but if you're going to carve out so many exceptions--if not for injury or lack of depth or bad team or or--then it's kind of a silly thesis. And guys DO win those jobs, it's often out of camp, especially if we're talking about guys 21+.

Funny enough I'm at the same conclusion, Faber doesn't reach the same opportunity here, just based on far different premises.

My point was just that on practically ANY team around the league kids aren't held down like they are by the Kings until they're 25. Most have no problem giving their talented kids extended time in the top 6, even playoff contenders (that have them, anyway) and will keep them in key roles after, not just ship them back to the A.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

I'm now on team 'blow it up'. I still think there's a way to do it in like a 3 year re-tool but at this point just have a fire sale - Keep a few young players and maybe Kempe (and Kopitar if he doesn't say he wants to go to a contender) and trade everyone else. Clean house in terms of GM/president/management.

Trade Doughty at 25% retained (if not this offseason then next).

• That's only $2.75m in dead cap for 3 years for the Kings - completely fine if you're rebuilding/retooling anyways
• That puts Doughty's cap hit at $8.25m - Honestly not bad at all for what he brings to the table.. I'm sure you could get a damn solid return for Doughty at that price

Trade Fiala, Danault, Moore, and Gavrikov. Let Arvidsson, Lizotte, and Roy walk. Buy out PLD if you can't find a way to trade him. Personally, I'd re-sign Kaliyev to a 1 year deal and actually play him in a top 6 role for a season. That would leave you with something like:

Kaliyev - Byfield - Kempe
XX - Kopitar - Fagemo
Thomas - Turcotte - Laferriere
XX - XX - XX

Anderson - Clarke
Moverare - Spence
Englund - XX

Rittich (re-signed for 1-2 years)
Portillo

That's definitely a lottery team, which is good because a top 3 pick in 2025 would be super ideal. Some of those 'XX' spots would be filled by young players/prospects returned from the fire sale - Others could be filled by a couple cheap free agent signings. You plan to suck in 2024/2025 and 2025/2026 (so you ideally pick in the top 5 in both drafts and then start building around what you have.

 

[Fat Elvis]

Got to have some changes throughout the organization. This regime has proven that their "Plan that has no substance" is a failure. Time to put the grownups in charge and send the private school kids packing.

 

[fsanford]

Respectfully...

Knies is playing above Robertson and Dewar on the depth chart... That's not exactly an example of a young player breaking down doors / pushing established NHLers down the lineup. It's more an example of the Leafs having cap issues & lacking depth at left wing and needing players like Knies and Robertson to step in. Brisson played 15 games and averaged 12 mins of ice time (played in a bottom 6 role). Again, not an example of a young player bursting onto the scene and pushing established NHLers down the lineup & forcing themselves into an elevated role due to sheer talent/performance. Holmstrom and Bolduc also don't really apply for NYI. Neither player leap frogged established & healthy NHL players to force themselves up the lineup - they saw games & ice time in limited roles. Same for Beecher and Lohrei honestly.

Slafkovsky was a 1st overall pick for a bad MTL team... Of course they're going to carve out a top 6 role for him. Again, it's not like Slafkovsky was just so incredibly good that he forced the coaching staff to give him an elevated role - He was put in that position intentionally. For Lane Hutson, same sort of thing as the others. Sure, he stepped in... but on a bad team where his biggest competition for minutes on MTL's left side was Mike Matheson. Him stepping in to an elevated role is more a product of MTL lacking depth.

So unfortunately RJ, none of your examples qualify.

My point was that the Spurgeon injury and lack of depth on Minnesota's right side were two major factors in creating an opportunity for Faber to step into an elevated role with the Wild. And that those two major factors wouldn't have existed in LA - Therefore, it's pretty valid to conclude that Faber wouldn't have had the same opportunities if he had stayed in LA (or if he had played for a completely healthy Minnesota team or another NHL team with strong depth on the right side of their defense).

And then my point became: It's pretty damn rare for a young player to just be so ridiculously good that they force themselves up the lineup and leapfrog proven & healthy NHL players in the process. More often than not, when a young player steps in right away and/or gets moved up the lineup - it's a product of injuries or just general lack of depth that create that opportunity - Rather than it being a product of just "hey this guys so good let's play him in a top 6 role over this established NHLer who's already proven to be a decent top 6 forward".

So Thomas got inserted, played great, and yet we get a reverse Wally Pipp. No playoff time.

Lou Gehrig is fortunate he did not have Kings management.

 

[AzKing]

Trading Byfield...yes...sure
Lay down the pipe

I'm now on team 'blow it up'. I still think there's a way to do it in like a 3 year re-tool but at this point just have a fire sale - Keep a few young players and maybe Kempe (and Kopitar if he doesn't say he wants to go to a contender) and trade everyone else. Clean house in terms of GM/president/management.

Trade Doughty at 25% retained (if not this offseason then next).

• That's only $2.75m in dead cap for 3 years for the Kings - completely fine if you're rebuilding/retooling anyways
• That puts Doughty's cap hit at $8.25m - Honestly not bad at all for what he brings to the table.. I'm sure you could get a damn solid return for Doughty at that price

Trade Fiala, Danault, Moore, and Gavrikov. Let Arvidsson, Lizotte, and Roy walk. Buy out PLD if you can't find a way to trade him. Personally, I'd re-sign Kaliyev to a 1 year deal and actually play him in a top 6 role for a season. That would leave you with something like:

Kaliyev - Byfield - Kempe
XX - Kopitar - Fagemo
Thomas - Turcotte - Laferriere
XX - XX - XX

Anderson - Clarke
Moverare - Spence
Englund - XX

Rittich (re-signed for 1-2 years)
Portillo

That's definitely a lottery team, which is good because a top 3 pick in 2025 would be super ideal. Some of those 'XX' spots would be filled by young players/prospects returned from the fire sale - Others could be filled by a couple cheap free agent signings. You plan to suck in 2024/2025 and 2025/2026 (so you ideally pick in the top 5 in both drafts and then start building around what you have.

Teams never are able to do that many deals. Too many variables.

This isn't going to be a strip it to the nuts and bolts rebuild. No chance. The Kings don't operate that way. I would like to see them make several moves but I'm not sure which idiot is running the ship at this point so a lot has to happen first before anything gets done on the player level.

 

[GameNight]

Bergevin is also lifelong friends with...

Pat Brisson.

Those two conspired a deal to bring Pacioretty from Bergevin's Habs to the Kings, which fell apart because Pacioretty didn't like the extension Brisson was encouraging him to sign - and.Pacioretty fired him.

Oh F***.

https://theathletic.com/396990/2018/06/17/the-relationship-between-marc-bergevin-and-pat-brisson-is-at-the-heart-of-the-canadiens-offseason/

 

[Lt Dan]

Oh F***.

https://theathletic.com/396990/2018/06/17/the-relationship-between-marc-bergevin-and-pat-brisson-is-at-the-heart-of-the-canadiens-offseason/

Exactly

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

No offense but if you're going to carve out so many exceptions--if not for injury or lack of depth or bad team or or--then it's kind of a silly thesis. And guys DO win those jobs, it's often out of camp, especially if we're talking about guys 21+.

Funny enough I'm at the same conclusion, Faber doesn't reach the same opportunity here, just based on far different premises.

My point was just that on practically ANY team around the league kids aren't held down like they are by the Kings until they're 25. Most have no problem giving their talented kids extended time in the top 6, even playoff contenders (that have them, anyway) and will keep them in key roles after, not just ship them back to the A.

I guess we'll just disagree on this one... I don't think it's a silly thesis, especially with respect to Faber. Going into this season Faber would've been at best the 3rd best RHD on the Kings depth chart and would've needed to outplay Doughty and Roy to get top 4 minutes. Meanwhile on the Wild (because of injury and lack of depth to begin with), Faber just had to be better than Bogosian and Goligoski to win a top pair RHD role. Obviously it's still impressive that he did that - But the two scenarios are very different. I genuinely do think if the Wild had a healthy Doughty and Roy they also wouldn't have played Faber in a top 4 role.

So it's a valid thesis.... Without lack of depth or injury, it's very rare for young players in the NHL to force themselves up the depth chart. So it's unlikely Faber would've seen the same results if he had stayed in LA and it's likely Faber would've also been held back in other organizations if they were in a similar scenario as the Kings (had strong depth in front of Faber and didn't have injury issues to compromise that depth). There are absolutely other teams in the NHL who choose to play established NHLers over young players - The Kings might be the biggest culprits of this, but they aren't the sole NHL organization who has mismanaged young talent by prioritizing established NHLers / not setting up that young talent for success.

So Thomas got inserted, played great, and yet we get a reverse Wally Pipp. No playoff time.

Lou Gehrig is fortunate he did not have Kings management.

Yeah I agree this is BS and another example of Kings coaching & management fumbling with young talent.

 

[bland]

Oh F***.

https://theathletic.com/396990/2018/06/17/the-relationship-between-marc-bergevin-and-pat-brisson-is-at-the-heart-of-the-canadiens-offseason/

Yup.