Fire Luke Richardson

[ColbyChaos]

The early Pegula years were very similar. 12 picks in the first 2 rounds for 3 straight years, committed tank, new, young gm who had been around the block in other roles, lots of retread "loyal" lower staff, committed to an internal core, etc. Hawks got luckier with the lotto early. Eichel was later.

Blind leading the blind for years in the Buff. It's hard to evaluate a bad team of young players against competition that doesn't care. That's what they Hawks have to look forward to figuring out.

No gm drafted more picks in 2 years and more in the first 2 rounds in 2 consecutive drafts than any KD in the cap era. KD must have been the only visionary in a front office the last 18 years.

I was never against have 3 picks in the top 40 and a bunch of lotto tickets they don't have to sign. You can at least have a plan and management path for all the players without fighting the CBA more than you have to.

Buffalos rebuild began in in 2014 when Pominville, Miller, and Vanek all left

2014 they had one first and 3 seconds

2015 they had one first and a second

2016 they had one first and a second

2017 one first and two seconds

2018 one first and a second

2019 two firsts (second first being 31)

Also you conveniently forgot to mention from 2014-now the Sabres have had something like 10 different coaches and GMs through that time frame. Zero stability in that organization but that’s what to be expected when you make your wife the team president despite her not knowing anything about hockey and only being a waitress before then.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Young undrafted free agents seldom sign where they don't have their TOI all but guaranteed. They're not signing in Chicago to fight for a chance to earn their next contract. They want some security.

The Hawks were 3rd worst last year and have been in last basically this entire season. If you can't win a spot in camp on this roster you can't do it on any other team, especially at forward. Any undrafted free agent worth a damn would get plenty of NHL ice time to establish themselves.

 

[hockeydoug]

Sorry, that's not how rebuilds work. I know you wanted to trade picks for Vince Dunn and quick fix things, but that's a destination to nowhere.

You can sign the Arvid Soderblom, Reese Johnson, Mike Hardmans of the world but those rarely turn into anything. 1st and 2nd round picks account for 52.5 % of all NHL players... and do the math on that. There are about a thousand times more undrafted players in the world..

The only fix is to not waste time of players that are going to be around a while.

I'm talking about the top 5 or 6 UDFAs every year. They are more likely to match or exceed the value of those late firsts and 2nds on average almost every year. Kempny, Suter, Kubalik, Raanta, etc.

On that 52.5% keep doing the math and look many years does it take to get a final disposition compared to 2 UDFAs overlapping the same period. The club is flexible, able to take on players, and shift gears quickly compared to loading up on dozens of their own picks. Timelines matter.

Why fight the CBA more than they have to? I don't understand why Chicago would want more complicated decision making without a bunch of heavy hitters in the front office.

I still haven't seen how Richardson leaving makes the team or development timelines any worse. Why not have some accountability across the board (KD has to admit the error too), and light a fire under players' rear since they either practice like crap or consistently fail to be ready for games?

 

[WarriorofTime]

The only fix is to not waste time of players that are going to be around a while.

I'm talking about the top 5 or 6 UDFAs every year. They are more likely to match or exceed the value of those late firsts and 2nds on average almost every year. Kempny, Suter, Kubalik, Raanta, etc.

On that 52.5% keep doing the math and look many years does it take to get a final disposition compared to 2 UDFAs overlapping the same period. The club is flexible, able to take on players, and shift gears quickly compared to loading up on dozens of their own picks. Timelines matter.

Why fight the CBA more than they have to? I don't understand why Chicago would want more complicated decision making without a bunch of heavy hitters in the front office.

I still haven't seen how Richardson leaving makes the team or development timelines any worse. Why not have some accountability across the board (KD has to admit the error too), and light a fire under players' rear since they either practice like crap or consistently fail to be ready for games?

I love the results oriented thinking here, lol. Just sign the best undrafted player every year, because we know with total certainty who that will be, and there aren't 31 other teams that will be making their case as well.

You think the key to a successful rebuild is getting the Michal Kempny and Pius Suters of the world? No, these are supporting pieces that you can fill out a roster with. You need high-end talent to build a strong nucleus before you are ever worried about those guys. You get that via draft picks. The higher the pick, the better the odds.

Duncan Keith, James Wisniewski, Adam Burish, Brent Seabrook, Corey Crawford, Dustin Byfuglien, Cam Barker, Dave Bolland, Bryan Bickell, Jake Dowell, Troy Brouwer, Jack Skille, Nicklas Hjalmarsson, Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Ben Smith, Brandon Pirri, Marcus Kruger. This is how you build a team's foundation and assemble an eventual group that can win. Of course you do other stuff too, but this is where the bulk of the work comes from when you start at ground 0.

I'll raise you "just draft the best available player in the late 1st/2nd round every year"

 

[ColbyChaos]

I love the results oriented thinking here, lol. Just sign the best undrafted player every year, because we know with total certainty who that will be, and there aren't 31 other teams that will be making their case as well.

You think the guy to a successful rebuild is getting the Michal Kempny and Pius Suters of the world? No, these are supporting pieces that you can fill out a roster with. You need high-end talent to build a strong nucleus before you are ever worried about those guys. You get that via draft picks. The higher the pick, the better the odds.

I'll raise you "just draft the best available player in the late 1st/2nd round every year"

Why don’t the hawks just sign 12 Panarins? Are they stupid?

 

[ClydeLee]

The only fix is to not waste time of players that are going to be around a while.

I'm talking about the top 5 or 6 UDFAs every year. They are more likely to match or exceed the value of those late firsts and 2nds on average almost every year. Kempny, Suter, Kubalik, Raanta, etc.

On that 52.5% keep doing the math and look many years does it take to get a final disposition compared to 2 UDFAs overlapping the same period. The club is flexible, able to take on players, and shift gears quickly compared to loading up on dozens of their own picks. Timelines matter.

Why fight the CBA more than they have to? I don't understand why Chicago would want more complicated decision making without a bunch of heavy hitters in the front office.

I still haven't seen how Richardson leaving makes the team or development timelines any worse. Why not have some accountability across the board (KD has to admit the error too), and light a fire under players' rear since they either practice like crap or consistently fail to be ready for games?

San Jose trades Hertl and you want the Team to look better still?

This fantasy of being last place and having this all prospects positive looking development with multiple players and amazing culture... doesn't exist.

You cannot actually expect both. A couple posters on here do, and that's just a wish that can't come true.

 

[hockeydoug]

Buffalos rebuild began in in 2014 when Pominville, Miller, and Vanek all left

2014 they had one first and 3 seconds

2015 they had one first and a second

2016 they had one first and a second

2017 one first and two seconds

2018 one first and a second

2019 two firsts (second first being 31)

Also you conveniently forgot to mention from 2014-now the Sabres have had something like 10 different coaches and GMs through that time frame. Zero stability in that organization but that’s what to be expected when you make your wife the team president despite her not knowing anything about hockey and only being a waitress before then.

The Teardown was beginning when they fired Ruff. That's when Ted Black started getting antsy and putting out conflicting statements.

But...My point is they had a pile of picks high in 12-14 and it caused the new leadership to bumble their way through managing what they had as they were still tanking, which is where the Hawks are and will be for a while no matter what they do. The LaFontaine thing working for the Mrs. isn't a whole lot different for the Murray years than what's going on now.

 

[hockeydoug]

San Jose trades Hertl and you want the Team to look better still?

This fantasy of being last place and having this all prospects positive looking development with multiple players and amazing culture... doesn't exist.

You cannot actually expect both. A couple posters on here do, and that's just a wish that can't come true.

I don't get this binary stuff. It's no be good or bad, a team can tank and chew gum. On Richardson and KD's roster, a team can work players in to committed responsibility as they're terrible like the Bednar example when Mackinnon was a rookie on one of these threads

KK on pp2 and Foligno getting top line minutes (before Hall was hurt and Reichel was a soup sandwich) is insane.

The Hawks had 2 periods in the same week with a combined 1 real shot on goal. I guess I'm crazy to expect them to hit the over on 4.5 shots each period. Stop acting like I'm asking for grindy competitive seasons and 12th overall picks. I've never seen a team waste so many shifts in a year, even 2004 when they were purposefully crashing into a mountain.

 

[hockeydoug]

The Hawks were 3rd worst last year and have been in last basically this entire season. If you can't win a spot in camp on this roster you can't do it on any other team, especially at forward. Any undrafted free agent worth a damn would get plenty of NHL ice time to establish themselves.

This is just false except for maybe a shooting wing and RHD this summer. Every player agent knows what's on the way up and where they were drafted. It's a rare thing when a gm doesn't give his first or 2nds 5 or 6 chances to stick. I think MSL wrote a long piece about that in the old players tribune.

 

[hockeydoug]

I love the results oriented thinking here, lol. Just sign the best undrafted player every year, because we know with total certainty who that will be, and there aren't 31 other teams that will be making their case as well.

You think the key to a successful rebuild is getting the Michal Kempny and Pius Suters of the world? No, these are supporting pieces that you can fill out a roster with. You need high-end talent to build a strong nucleus before you are ever worried about those guys. You get that via draft picks. The higher the pick, the better the odds.

Duncan Keith, James Wisniewski, Adam Burish, Brent Seabrook, Corey Crawford, Dustin Byfuglien, Cam Barker, Dave Bolland, Bryan Bickell, Jake Dowell, Troy Brouwer, Jack Skille, Nicklas Hjalmarsson, Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Ben Smith, Brandon Pirri, Marcus Kruger. This is how you build a team's foundation and assemble an eventual group that can win. Of course you do other stuff too, but this is where the bulk of the work comes from when you start at ground 0.

I'll raise you "just draft the best available player in the late 1st/2nd round every year"

31 teams are almost never in the market for UDFAs. It's the same clubs every year that have a huge advantage most of the time. The big spending owners in major markets always have a huge advantage on the pool. The top guys have a short list with all but 1 or 2 teams being the usual suspects.

And of your draft list, half the league didn't have a paid scouting department and it was pre cap CBA, so no comp there...and they never overloaded high picks at the top after 2004.

 

[ClydeLee]

I don't get this binary stuff. It's no be good or bad, a team can tank and chew gum. On Richardson and KD's roster, a team can work players in to committed responsibility as they're terrible like the Bednar example when Mackinnon was a rookie on one of these threads

KK on pp2 and Foligno getting top line minutes (before Hall was hurt and Reichel was a soup sandwich) is insane.

The Hawks had 2 periods in the same week with a combined 1 real shot on goal. I guess I'm crazy to expect them to hit the over on 4.5 shots each period. Stop acting like I'm asking for grindy competitive seasons and 12th overall picks. I've never seen a team waste so many shifts in a year, even 2004 when they were purposefully crashing into a mountain.

Avs were always my 2nd favorite team. People wee bemoaning during that Bednar 1st year how the guys weren't developing, but most fans got it was a rough ride with Roy quitting on the team. Duchesne and Ladeskog had way down years. Mack hardly progressed.

Macks rookie year was before that when they looked good but he dipped after that. Progression not being linear is a key example to take from Mack.

There's no wasted shifts of the young 4/5 guys that matter. There's fair criticism of roles but it's over the top by some people. The "defenders" if you can call it that of Rochardson are just trying to make it clear, nothing will change if you fire him or replace him. Nothing. Coaches will always play veterans higher or not even good tough, tough guys over some prospects, every coach. Every fanbases page here will complain of that. It only doesn't happen when teams are so stacked like the hawks were in 15 or 2013. Yet 2014 he played a bunch of Brandon Bolig and Sheldon Brookbrank... because that was the talent there.

And 2004 they weren't trying to be bad. Thats a difference. I think yes, you should expect less or not care they're dreadful. Next year they will be too.

 

[WarriorofTime]

31 teams are almost never in the market for UDFAs. It's the same clubs every year that have a huge advantage most of the time. The big spending owners in major markets always have a huge advantage on the pool. The top guys have a short list with all but 1 or 2 teams being the usual suspects.

And of your draft list, half the league didn't have a paid scouting department and it was pre cap CBA, so no comp there...and they never overloaded high picks at the top after 2004.

The teams that sign UDFAs the most are the ones that traded away their draft picks, and so they have a weaker prospect pool. This is more out of need than anything.

 

[hockeydoug]

Avs were always my 2nd favorite team. People wee bemoaning during that Bednar 1st year how the guys weren't developing, but most fans got it was a rough ride with Roy quitting on the team. Duchesne and Ladeskog had way down years. Mack hardly progressed.

Macks rookie year was before that when they looked good but he dipped after that. Progression not being linear is a key example to take from Mack.

There's no wasted shifts of the young 4/5 guys that matter. There's fair criticism of roles but it's over the top by some people. The "defenders" if you can call it that of Rochardson are just trying to make it clear, nothing will change if you fire him or replace him. Nothing. Coaches will always play veterans higher or not even good tough, tough guys over some prospects, every coach. Every fanbases page here will complain of that. It only doesn't happen when teams are so stacked like the hawks were in 15 or 2013. Yet 2014 he played a bunch of Brandon Bolig and Sheldon Brookbrank... because that was the talent there.

And 2004 they weren't trying to be bad. Thats a difference. I think yes, you should expect less or not care they're dreadful. Next year they will be too.

Bednar stuck to big minute, meaningful shifts of his young players. He let them fail and stuck with them in the same roles. He shuffled lines a few times, but he kept consistency.

Richardson does not do that. 3 bad passes..no more pp for you. 5 slow shifts...benched for the game. Blown off backchecking...depends who you are.


The part about wasted shifts is where we can agree to disagree. I think Reichel, Soderblom, and KK were dressed for games they should have worked on their solitaire game for. I just don't believe in 30+ shifts skating around aimlessly during a 3 game in 4 stretch is useful. You mentioned, linear, and I agree it's not. Many of those shifts don't add up to anything useful imo.

 

[ClydeLee]

Bednar stuck to big minute, meaningful shifts of his young players. He let them fail and stuck with them in the same roles. He shuffled lines a few times, but he kept consistency.

Richardson does not do that. 3 bad passes..no more pp for you. 5 slow shifts...benched for the game. Blown off backchecking...depends who you are.


The part about wasted shifts is where we can agree to disagree. I think Reichel, Soderblom, and KK were dressed for games they should have worked on their solitaire game for. I just don't believe in 30+ shifts skating around aimlessly during a 3 game in 4 stretch is useful. You mentioned, linear, and I agree it's not. Many of those shifts don't add up to anything useful imo.

It just seems like a lot of impatiently complaining. Well i never was a Soderblom believer as a big success. But yeah Reichel and KK have had issues. I never wanted Reichel at center but I guess he wanted it.(plenty of fans here or online kept on about it last season too) I think that messed him up.

Kk I wanted him to go back to the WHL to try to be "the guy" and not just a passive distributor. So him even being on PP1 with only 1 good player, to me, he hasn't shown he's ready for that type of role. So I don't think it's insane he's on pp2 or he hasn't got plenty to learn from bad shifts and struggling aimless shifts.

I just on here see people say put players in the best situation to succeed... yet simultaneously demanding those players be put in the toughest situations. Comments like, how are they gonna learn if not in this situations for when it matters... about 18/19 year Olds that are 5 seasons away from when it will likely matter. They can ramp up still when 21-22 into tougher roles.

There's not many talents here. They will have more next year, but still not too many. It's 26-27 when I expect progress.

 

[hockeydoug]

The teams that sign UDFAs the most are the ones that traded away their draft picks, and so they have a weaker prospect pool. This is more out of need than anything.

Shallower prospect pool, not necessarily weaker. Using local examples, that's why Niemi went to Chicago, Zaitsev went to Toronto, Caggiula went to EDM etc.

 

[hockeydoug]

It just seems like a lot of impatiently complaining. Well i never was a Soderblom believer as a big success. But yeah Reichel and KK have had issues. I never wanted Reichel at center but I guess he wanted it.(plenty of fans here or online kept on about it last season too) I think that messed him up.

Kk I wanted him to go back to the WHL to try to be "the guy" and not just a passive distributor. So him even being on PP1 with only 1 good player, to me, he hasn't shown he's ready for that type of role. So I don't think it's insane he's on pp2 or he hasn't got plenty to learn from bad shifts and struggling aimless shifts.

I just on here see people say put players in the best situation to succeed... yet simultaneously demanding those players be put in the toughest situations. Comments like, how are they gonna learn if not in this situations for when it matters... about 18/19 year Olds that are 5 seasons away from when it will likely matter. They can ramp up still when 21-22 into tougher roles.

There's not many talents here. They will have more next year, but still not too many. It's 26-27 when I expect progress.

Chalk me up as one impatient with Richardson's impatience

I saw no value if several periods and several games. We agree to disagree there so I think we at least can identify where our opinions would probably be similar otherwise.

I want is repetition of game making decisions at NHL speed against real NHL competition and players to come up with new ways to fail after a few stumbles. I don't see Richardson setting that learning environment up, and if it's KD's fault for the roster, well the coach goes first usually and then we'll be able to see for certain whether or not kids actually gain on this type of roster faster than they would have any other way.

 

[giza]

This thread should be killed. Let's see what he can do with a real roster and not a ton of injuries. I'm not saying he's going to lead us to a Cup, per se, and when we are knocking on the door of a Cup, they'll bring in the appropriate coach to get us there like they did with Quenneville. Till then, visit the local meth lab and take a breather.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Shallower prospect pool, not necessarily weaker. Using local examples, that's why Niemi went to Chicago, Zaitsev went to Toronto, Caggiula went to EDM etc.

Niemi was already 25 when he signed with the Hawks. Is your goal that the hawks target 25 year olds Europeans?

 

[hockeydoug]

Niemi was already 25 when he signed with the Hawks. Is your goal that the hawks target 25 year olds Europeans?

C'mon now, goalies have their own CBA rules too. Stop mischaracterizing.

I'm not against players over 22 as they keep their tank picks.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Next head coach of the Chicago Blackhawks

 

[Hattrick Kane]

I’m surprised this idiot manages to get his pants on in the morning.

 

[ChiHawks10]

As soon as this season is over this guy should be fired into the f***ing sun.

 

[Chuck Testa]

As soon as this season is over this guy should be fired into the f***ing sun.

That's what I'm expecting to see. Much like the Ducks did last year to Dallas Eakins.

 

[Northernhawk]

The whole SEVEN DEFENCEMEN thing NEVER works…

Richardson was asked after the game why he went with 11-7, and he said he wanted to get ‘Tinners toughness’ in the game and thought it might give some of the ‘offensive guys’ more ice time…ugh, then why didn’t you dress Tinordi over Negna(who was -4 vs LA) and slide Entwistle in for Blackwell? Oh and switch Soderblom for Stauber!

 

[Styles]

People love to complain about coach retreads but judging by the last two guys we had wouldn't you welcome some experience behind the bench?