Fans Want to End Careers for Their Mistakes. Consider Craig MacTavish

[MBH]

Every time you turn around, some hockey player, even a high-profile amateur under the age of 18, makes a mistake and winds up in the news.
Mitchell Miller.
Tony D'Angelo.
And now Logan Mailloux.

And fans want blood.
They want scholarships rescinded.
They want draft rights released.
They want players to never, ever again have the privilege of playing high-level hockey. Especially not in the NHL.

What Miller and Mailloux did were awful. It's still not exactly clear what D'Angelo did, but he's not forgiven for it. That's clear.

But consider Craig MacTavish.
MacTavish got drunk, got in a car accident.
And killed a woman.
In the middle of his NHL career, at the age of 26, he spent a year in prison for vehicular homicide.

While in prison, MacTavish had many visits from the family of the woman he killed.

The visits were helpful to the family and MacTavish.
MacTavish left prison, went to the Oilers, and had a long career as a player, winning four cups (including one with the Rangers).
Then he coached the Oilers for 8 seasons.

Is it fair that MacTavish went on to have a great life while that woman's life was stolen?
No.
But what should be done?

I don't know what happened to forgiveness or understanding or empathy.
But it's gone among hockey fans.

It's all about judgment and punishment now.

Frankly, I think people are lost and lacking a generousness of spirit.

 

[yada]

Definitely different times. McTavish would be killed today and find it hard to get a second chance.

NFL player donte Stallworth also was involved in a hit and run accident killing a pedestrian in 09. He pleaded to a low level sentence involving 30 days in jail and never able to hold a drivers license again in florida (dont know if that would prevent him from gaining a license in another state) he was able to come back from this and play a few more years bouncing team to team.

If this happened in 21 Stallworth would likely be viewed differently.

One thing that likely helps the image of these players were the case of going to jail and serving their penalties under the court of law. Mike vick and teams recieved back lash when he was getting back into the NFL after his dog fighting cases but some people also forgave him for serving his time.

I also think the players that served jail time are different from players considered malcontents. It is much easier for someone to be forgiven for bad decision making then it is for just being considered a hothead, dick, and not nice person.

 

[Viqsi]

There is a bit of a difference beween one tragic result of poor judgement for which regret is expressed and from which lessons are learned versus a repeated track record of problems with little or no regret or remorse (and indeed, with frequent doubling down instead).

The situations are not as comparable as you assume.

 

[MBH]

Definitely different times. McTavish would be killed today and find it hard to get a second chance.

NFL player donte Stallworth also was involved in a hit and run accident killing a pedestrian in 09. He pleaded to a low level sentence involving 30 days in jail and never able to hold a drivers license again in florida (dont know if that would prevent him from gaining a license in another state) he was able to come back from this and play a few more years bouncing team to team.

If this happened in 21 Stallworth would likely be viewed differently.

One thing that likely helps the image of these players were the case of going to jail and serving their penalties under the court of law. Mike vick and teams recieved back lash when he was getting back into the NFL after his dog fighting cases but some people also forgave him for serving his time.

I also think the players that served jail time are different from players considered malcontents. It is much easier for someone to be forgiven for bad decision making then it is for just being considered a hothead, dick, and not nice person.

Mitchell Miller served his sentence.
Having grown up in Canada, with the Young Offenders Act, it was pretty f***ing crazy to me that a 14-year-old's crimes were even published in the Toledo paper, with his name.
But they're still up, for everyone to see.
But he served his sentence.

And yet years later, he receives less forgiveness for the crimes he committed in middle school than MacTavish received for the crime he committed - taking someone's life - as a 25-year-old man.

I think that's a pretty serious statement about how radicalized our society is becoming.

 

[Platano King]

Mitchell Miller literally tormented an intellectually disabled child, was court ordered to stay away from the kid's house to stop the harassments, and showed no remorse. What the f***?

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Lets face it, this is a North American problem too.

Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryan etc who had to apologize to the public because they had an affair or whatever.

Get real.


Edit: now i just checked what Logan Mailloux did and its about a photo.
Not nice but ridiculous reason not to draft him.

 

[Platano King]

Mitchell Miller served his sentence.
Having grown up in Canada, with the Young Offenders Act, it was pretty f***ing crazy to me that a 14-year-old's crimes were even published in the Toledo paper, with his name.
But they're still up, for everyone to see.
But he served his sentence.

And yet years later, he receives less forgiveness for the crimes he committed in middle school than MacTavish received for the crime he committed - taking someone's life - as a 25-year-old man.

I think that's a pretty serious statement about how radicalized our society is becoming.

So the lesson you learn from this is not "giving people a pass for drunken vehicular manslaughter is bad?"

 

[Cursed Lemon]

And yet years later, he receives less forgiveness for the crimes he committed in middle school than MacTavish received for the crime he committed - taking someone's life - as a 25-year-old man.

There's a problem here but it's not the problem you think it is

 

[Leafs87]

Different times. Somewhat different situations.

I am not a fan of how things are today. You just have to be very careful nowadays

 

[MBH]

There's a problem here but it's not the problem you think it is

So what is the problem?
That MacTavish got off too easy?
How would that have made life better for anyone?
TRYING TO REBUILD A LIFE

''What good are we going to do if we crucify Craig? That`s why we went. We think the whole problem is he`s an excellent young hockey player, he`s an excellent young man. But he`s like any other man in sports. They come out of school, they don`t finish their schooling, they`re given big money, they buy big cars.
''You can`t build a skyscraper if it ain`t got a foundation underneath it.

 

[yada]

Mitchell Miller served his sentence.
Having grown up in Canada, with the Young Offenders Act, it was pretty f***ing crazy to me that a 14-year-old's crimes were even published in the Toledo paper, with his name.
But they're still up, for everyone to see.
But he served his sentence.

And yet years later, he receives less forgiveness for the crimes he committed in middle school than MacTavish received for the crime he committed - taking someone's life - as a 25-year-old man.

I think that's a pretty serious statement about how radicalized our society is becoming.

Craig mactavish served his punishment in the court of law. Should he be publicly reprimanded for this on a daily basis? I dont know mactavish personally but i can guarantee you he thinks about that night every day of his life.

Mitchell miller certainly has time to turn around his life.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Using Mact is example. Another time another era. We now live in different times.

Ignoring the fan aspect. If Mact did that today, he would 5 to 10 years

 

[yada]

So what is the problem?
That MacTavish got off too easy?
How would that have made life better for anyone?
TRYING TO REBUILD A LIFE

''What good are we going to do if we crucify Craig? That`s why we went. We think the whole problem is he`s an excellent young hockey player, he`s an excellent young man. But he`s like any other man in sports. They come out of school, they don`t finish their schooling, they`re given big money, they buy big cars.
''You can`t build a skyscraper if it ain`t got a foundation underneath it.

Youre missing his point and unfortunately i think this thread is looking like its going to get locked.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

So what is the problem?
That MacTavish got off too easy?
How would that have made life better for anyone?
TRYING TO REBUILD A LIFE

''What good are we going to do if we crucify Craig? That`s why we went. We think the whole problem is he`s an excellent young hockey player, he`s an excellent young man. But he`s like any other man in sports. They come out of school, they don`t finish their schooling, they`re given big money, they buy big cars.
''You can`t build a skyscraper if it ain`t got a foundation underneath it.

Did you really just run the Brock Turner defense up in here

 

[Czech Your Math]

There is a bit of a difference beween one tragic result of poor judgement for which regret is expressed and from which lessons are learned versus a repeated track record of problems with little or no regret or remorse (and indeed, with frequent doubling down instead).

The situations are not as comparable as you assume.

I don't know about MacTavish, but I'm sure there's plenty of NHL player, athletes, and people in general that have driven while significantly over the legal definition of drunk dozens, if not hundreds of times, but it just didn't end up tragically or only did so once. That doesn't mean there wasn't a pattern of inappropriate behavior, only that it flew under the radar.

Heatley was speeding excessively and killed his teammate Dan Snyder in a car crash, but Snyder's family forgave him. I'm guessing he deeply regrets his actions and who knows whether he actually can completely forgive himself. I don't think a player's career should be ruined by a reckless, but unintentional action that happened to results in tragedy once.

 

[Larry Hanson]

24hr instant news, social media giving billions of people an instant platform to discuss and condemn people, cancel culture.

In MacTavish's day you had to read about it in the paper the next day or see it on the 6/10pm news. If you were very interested in the story or upset you would discuss it with your immediate family, call a friend or maybe discuss with a coworker who probably hadn't even seen the news. If there was a bullying situation or something else that didn't lead to criminal charges you probably would never hear about it. Different times.

 

[MBH]

So the lesson you learn from this is not "giving people a pass for drunken vehicular manslaughter is bad?"

What good would have come from locking up MacTavish for 12 years?
Who would have been served?
The family?
Society?
MacTavish?
Who?

This guy took a life as a 25 year old.
And somehow, in the 1980s, he was able to go on with his career, with the blessing of the family who lost a love one.

And 30 years lter, none of that forgiveness exists.
We want to crucify and end careers for mistakes kids made.

As someone who's always believed in forgiveness, redemption and generosity, what I instead see is the opposite.

Even greater punishment for lighter crimes.
Even greater punishment for lighter crimes committed by children.

And the people advocating for these crimes claim to be righteous or enlightened.

 

[Platano King]

So what is the problem?
That MacTavish got off too easy?

Umm...no shit?

When you get behind the wheel drunk, you willingly and recklessly put the lives of others at risk. MacTavish was 26. Not 16. 26. I would be shocked if this was his first time getting drunk, or operating a motor vehicle. Any grown ass man should full well know the impact of alcohol on your ability to react and operate a vehicle and take on the responsibility needed when drinking.

This isn't something like a dumb insensitive tweet, it's a reckless action that any reasonable person knows is wrong and irresponsible. There should be appropriate consequences for such actions. It's called being an adult in society. Is the bar so low that we now consider 1 year an appropriate sentence for killing someone?

 

[MBH]

Mitchell Miller literally tormented an intellectually disabled child, was court ordered to stay away from the kid's house to stop the harassments, and showed no remorse. What the f***?

In middle school.
McTavish killed a woman. Dead.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Harry Zolnierczyk is another one worth mentioning here.

 

[MBH]

Craig mactavish served his punishment in the court of law. Should he be publicly reprimanded for this on a daily basis? I dont know mactavish personally but i can guarantee you he thinks about that night every day of his life.

Mitchell miller certainly has time to turn around his life.

Mitchell Miller served his sentence from the court of law.

 

[SensontheRush]

Hmmm, Mactavish has NOTHING to do with these other individuals. Not only that, but he served actual jail time, thus actual proof of comeuppance.

Mailloux thing is a nothingburger. D'Angelo ruined his career all on his own like an idiot. Miller is the only egregious case here (well MacT did kill someone), and yes there should be a route for salvation, BUT, this guy is sociopath material, 100%.

This thread is misleading, in a gross way.

 

[Hisch13r]

Lets face it, this is a North American problem too.

Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryan etc who had to apologize to the public because they had an affair or whatever.

Get real.


Edit: now i just checked what Logan Mailloux did and its about a photo.
Not nice but ridiculous reason not to draft him.

Or you know because Kobe raped someone...

 

[Platano King]

In middle school.

14 year olds aren't dumb. I knew what Miller was doing was wrong by the time I was 8. Bullying, tormenting, and harassing someone who is intellectually disabled repeatedly, only stopping when ordered by a judge, isn't just a "mistake". It's borderline sociopathy. And even if we're gonna assume that Mitchell Miller was some unfeeling dolt at 14 who had no knowledge or intent behind his actions, he should know at 18, as an adult, that what he did was wrong. He should be able to do the right thing, as an adult, and at the very least apologize to the family.

He didn't. He continues to show no remorse and only issued a half-ass statement to NHL teams so he can advance his career. He's sorry that he got caught. I'll ask you this: if this was your kid, getting beaten and tortured every single day, would you be so kumbaya and forgiving and let the kid live his wildest dreams as a professional athlete? I really don't think so.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Umm...no shit?

When you get behind the wheel drunk, you willingly and recklessly put the lives of others at risk. MacTavish was 26. Not 16. 26. I would be shocked if this was his first time getting drunk, or operating a motor vehicle. Any grown ass man should full well know the impact of alcohol on your ability to react and operate a vehicle and take on the responsibility needed when drinking.

This isn't something like a dumb insensitive tweet, it's a reckless action that any reasonable person knows is wrong and irresponsible. There should be appropriate consequences for such actions. It's called being an adult in society. Is the bar so low that we now consider 1 year an appropriate sentence for killing someone?

I don't know how old you are but in the 70/80's drunk driving wasn't taken nearly as seriously and it would take multiple offenses to see any actual jail time. Cops didn't carry around breathalyzers and there weren't check stops (or at least not many). If the cops suspected you might be drunk they were often likely to give you a warning, if someone else in the car appeared reasonably sober they would let them drive. Also, the bar for "impaired" was a lot lower then. Again, different times.