JustNapalmIt
Registered User
- May 14, 2017
- 3,293
- 3,507
Player Discussion Evan Bouchard
- Thread starter Trafalgar Sadge Law
- Start date
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BIeucheeseWithWings
Shlt Poster
- Jul 9, 2022
- 568
- 930
Shit, the players could pull him aside too. Different sport, I know, but Kobe would have been on his ass from the jump.
KeithIsActuallyBad
Fire Dustin Schwartz
The opening shift of the last game begins with a five alarm giveaway in his own zone. These are starting to become frighteningly frequent. Perhaps he played over his head in the playoffs last year.
I mean the signs were there in the playoffs. He was still giving the puck away, doing dumb shit etc. The only difference? He was scoring to offset it.
Like I said before Bouchard lacks athleticism and team have figured out his game a bit. I'm sure he will improve from here, but it does not justify paying him what he wants. He's just not a top guy.
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It's funny because some posters here have the biggest blinders on, or are just extremely bias, or just can't see this stuff ahead of time developing with players. I took so much heat with this guy, yet other posters say he would have been Canada's second best defensemen in the Gold Metal Game.......
KeithIsActuallyBad
Fire Dustin Schwartz
He was never perfect in the playoffs but he was far better than this and arguably our best player against the Canucks. Bonehead turnovers aren't exactly foreign to this team (see: Kapanen) but generally if a player makes a really bad turnover it's almost always him.
I don't understand what happened to this player. Maybe he overachieved last year but this year he's been dreadful.
Like i have said before he processes the game too slowly, lacks foot speed, Lacks east west mobility. Obviously last year he had some bigger moments, but he got a lot of points piggy backing from Mcdrai. Ekholm also really elevated Bouchard's game.
At the end of the day he has a great shot and a good breakout pass, but the league eventually gets film on players and adapt.
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So he’s having a terrible year but wants Nurse money next year. Do we trade him now before we get to a Broberg situation?
oXo Cube
Power Play Merchant
Still no. He's been bad no question but how quickly we all forget how hard it is to get players with this skillset.
I'm absolutely not trading him at his lowest value and I'm still actively trying to sign him long term rather than bridge and watch the price go even higher when his game recovers.
His game will recover a bit, but I don't think it will recover to the point of him being a top pairing guy. He won't be what he was in the playoffs and we have to ask ourselves if he will be worth the $$$
McDNicks17
Moderator
Nothing happened to him. This is him. Sink or swim depending on how good Ekholm is that day
bobbythebrain
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2016
- 14,464
- 14,516
Meh this is horseshit. More stat justifying. Just watch last game and tell me if Bouchard turns it over at a normal rate.? He had 3x 5alarm giveaways last game.
His giveaways the last 2 months have been downright atrocious as far as quality
There's a massive difference between players like Mack and McDavid's(who have the puck alot) givewaways to what Bouchard is serving up to the other team on a nightly basis
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I think we need to be over the analytics and stat pumping with Bouchard. Do these people that are saying this crap play hockey/understand the game?
Lot's of players have turnovers. For example Kucherov, Drai and Mackinnon turn over the puck trying high danger plays. On the other hand Bouchard turns over the puck making brain dead plays.
At least when Kucherov turns over the puck it doesn't end up in the back of the Bolts net. He also makes an amazing play the next shift that puts the whole arena in "awe".
It's not the same...
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
- 35,160
- 15,870
I am not sure its an althleticism thing...I think its more of a mental thing.
He just doesnt seem to have a very high level of mental commitment to being a consistent top level NHL dman.
He doesnt seem to have the tools.
So he just checks out mentally. The bad Boucahrd shows up.
That wrap around goal in the T-Bay game (IIRC their 2nd goal) was a perfect example. The T-Bay player is breaking down the wing and cutting in on net and Bouchard did nothing.
All Bouchard had to do was take away the net front option from the T-Bay player and he didnt even do that. Instead Bouchard just drifts away from the play completely and watches the puck.
So Skinner has to intially commit to protecting the net front (which IMO he over committed to) which then allows the T-Bay player to do the wrap around.
Any competent NHL dman takes away the net fron option so all Skinner has to do is deal with the wrap around. Bouchard was 90% to blame for that goal.
I am watching Bouchard on that play thinking...WTF!!! Dude f*cking do something! Bouchard did absolutely nothing. His response was a joke.
An competent NHL dman just doesnt react that way...nevermind a top pairing NHL damn.
Thats a reaction to a play we would NEVER see from Ekholm or any other legit top paring dman.
Yet Bouchard does that and similar dumb things multiple times in a game despite the fact that he has played over 300 NHL games.
As @KeithIsActuallyBad stated as well. This is partially on Knoblauch because this team cant afford to have bad Bouchard on the ice f**king things up. Worse yet...to have Bouchard start the 2nd period after how he stared the first is inexcusable IMO.
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
- 35,160
- 15,870
There is a significant amount of myopic thinking when it comes to analytics. Twitter posts and even posts on here throwing around screen shots like its a mic drop moment. Like it signals the end of a discussion.
Nonsense.
There are many flaws with these numbers...the HDSC is one that I have talked about a lot.
Its a flawed stat.
In terms of Bouchard this isnt just about turnovers like Mike Kelly seems to think.
Its about decisions without the puck as well.
I would even say that his decisions without the puck are much a bigger problem than turnovers.
The T-Bay game is only one of many examples.
McDNicks17
Moderator
We're talking about data from the most advanced independent analytics firm that is employed by every team in the NHL.
If you're trying to hand wave those in favour of your eye test, you've lost the plot.
Exactly.
“Oh I don’t believe what’s actually happening. I believe only what I think it’s happening. The earth is flat”
bobbythebrain
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2016
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- 14,516
That Mike Kelly is a moron and clearly doesn't watch games, he just goes to stat sites
Bouchard gave up a 2 on 1 cross crease last game, then he gave up a breakaway
So b/c both Grade A chances didn't end up in the back of the net he is saying he's within the norm of other players?
Bouchard has been the DIRECT result of 5(maybe even 6) losses this year. Not the goaltending, not the entire D, not the lack of scoring, but him, and him alone
Now can you say that about Toews or Hedman? I highly doubt it
Also, where would those games put us in the standings right about now? Oh i know....first in the division
I'm a big Bouchard fan but that tweet was nothing more than trying to turd polish
McDNicks17
Moderator
That "stat site" provides 99% of the data every NHL analytics department in the league uses.
Do a quick google of SportsLogIQ. They do some really interesting stuff.
oXo Cube
Power Play Merchant
What's funny is that I think Devon Toews looks like crap pretty much every game I see him in.
Maybe I'm not a pro scout? No, it must be the hard data that is wrong.
Maybe I'm not a pro scout? No, it must be the hard data that is wrong.
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
- 35,160
- 15,870
We are indeed talking about advanced numbers. I wuuld strongly suggest though that the NHL teams have a much more robust analysis of these numbers compared to the average poster on here.
So to just throw around numbers like its definitive is pure folly.
Case in point...have a listen to Kevin Woodly talk about team defence and goalies and the flaws in the HDSC stat when trying to evaluate these things.
The very stat many posters on here seem to think is definitive.
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bobbythebrain
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2016
- 14,464
- 14,516
See reply to foshizzle
Also, I watch ALOT of hockey, and believe me, no dman in the NHL is serving up the quality chances of Bouchard, especially not the more elite players like Toews and Hedman
Just b/c the stats show him within a certain rate...the quality is drastically different
McDNicks17
Moderator
Like I said, Kelly is referencing numbers from an independent firm that every team in the league uses. Teams have literally stopped collecting data themselves because it's so inferior to SportsLogIQ's. Every NHL team has access to exactly what Kelly has access to.
High Danger numbers have nothing to do with SportsLogIQ. You're thinking of basic public models. SportsLogIQ uses machine learning for their models. It factors in everything you see. Player location, opponent locations, goalie location, was there a screen?, tip?, east/west pass?, how far the pass was, the speed of the pass, how close opponents were, how close sticks were, etc.
It's basically the eye test on steroids powered by AI.
