Engvall

[hobarth]

Man, this guy gets a lot of hate from Leaf fans and I don't understand it?

The function of bottom 6 forwards is, what, defend, be energetic, be physical, provide some offense and probably mostly puck possession. All the other attributes of the bottom 6 should lead to their primary function, establish possession.

Engvall hasn't been scoring much this year but that's true of pretty well all Leafs, last year Engvall had 35 points, 15 goals with zero PP time, that was fantastic totals from anyone playing most of the year with Kampf as their center, Kampf got the praise but it was Engvall that established possession, that moved the puck and set up the offense provided by his line plus he Pked and defended. Essentially it's the 3rd and 4th line's job to get the puck into the opposition's zone and then they are replaced by the 1st and 2nd lines which are supposed to provide offensive results from the established territorial advantage. I notice that it's Engvall that got the puck into the opposition's zone , not Kampf, not Jarnkrok, not Kerfoot when he plays on the bottom 2 lines, never Robertson nor Simmonds.

So the question is, why is the hate piled on Engvall, I figure it's because Engvall looks like a player that's capable of much more and I agree. Engvall gets $2.25 mil. per which I figure is a decent compensation for the value he provides, I don't think TO would have any problem trading Engvall and his contract, Kerfoot, who gets nothing but praise, is the type of player and contract that TO would or should have to sweeten the deal to get rid of.

Could Engvall be better, probably, but if he was TO couldn't keep him because he'd be worth more. For what Engvall does related to his contract, he's one of TO's true bargains especially when compared to what Kampf and Jarnkrok are paid. What was really interesting is the bottomless pit of praise that Kampf received from all, the media, the TV commentators and fans, yet his stats away from Engvall were horrendous , his stats with Engvall were what a team deserving 115 points needed.

Here's another head scratcher, splitting up Matthews and Marner, we seem to think that splitting them up will be the solution to all that ails the Leafs.

www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2022/11/15/23457942/toronto-maple-leafs-splitting-up-matthews-and-marner goes into this issue and concludes that yes the top 2 lines aren't providing enough quality results to make up for the lack of results from the bottom 2 lines, Dubie didn't bring in true quality players to fill in the bottom two lines and the results are/were predictable. We aren't going to see much of an improvement from the bottom 6 forwards, Engvall isn't such a great player that he can elevate the bottom 6 on his own.

Muzzin is gone for maybe the rest of the year, TO's defensive results are reasonable and are the only reason TO is staying afloat so Dubie needs to improve the bottom 6, bottom line.

Click to read more...

 

[Larcos_Unal]

He was much better last year, this year he's invisible. He's huge but he's not physical. He's fast but he doesn't drive the net and relies on the button hook every...single...time. This is by design so he doesn't get hit.

We already have enough soft forwards, he needs to be more engaged & show some intensity.
He's on pace for 20 points, at $2.25 he's overpaid.

 

[fancy lad]

He's become Freddie Gauthier 2.0

 

[leafsfan5]

He's a waste of potential

If he used his size and strength, he would be one of the best depth pieces in hockey. Instead he's a run of the mill, utility bottom 6er who is soft, good defensively and struggles to score come playoff time

Someone needs to unlock the physical side of his game. The dude is jacked and can skate well, he could be dominant

 

[Fogelhund]

12 Forwards have played 10 games or more for the Leafs.

he's one of TO's true bargains

Of those 12 Forwards, Engvall is 12th in scoring. He has the 6th highest Cap hit.

So, if Engvall is a bargain, what are the other 5 players, paid less, outperforming him offensively?

He has the 6th highest PK time... so it's not like he's a critical piece there.

He's having a bad season, no question, and if he doesn't pick it up, he should sit, and have some Marlies try his spot.

Accountability.

 

[IPS]

His PK'ing is about the only part of his game I like.

17 playoff games and he still hasn't scored a goal.

Could honestly care less if he's on the team or not.

 

[DarkKnight]

Man, this guy gets a lot of hate from Leaf fans and I don't understand it?

Watch the games?

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

Kerfoot definitely does not get nothing but praise on here. He is one of most complained about players on this team and rightfully so

 

[Mr_Fun]

Man, this guy gets a lot of hate from Leaf fans and I don't understand it?

The function of bottom 6 forwards is, what, defend, be energetic, be physical, provide some offense and probably mostly puck possession. All the other attributes of the bottom 6 should lead to their primary function, establish possession.

Engvall hasn't been scoring much this year but that's true of pretty well all Leafs, last year Engvall had 35 points, 15 goals with zero PP time, that was fantastic totals from anyone playing most of the year with Kampf as their center, Kampf got the praise but it was Engvall that established possession, that moved the puck and set up the offense provided by his line plus he Pked and defended. Essentially it's the 3rd and 4th line's job to get the puck into the opposition's zone and then they are replaced by the 1st and 2nd lines which are supposed to provide offensive results from the established territorial advantage. I notice that it's Engvall that got the puck into the opposition's zone , not Kampf, not Jarnkrok, not Kerfoot when he plays on the bottom 2 lines, never Robertson nor Simmonds.

So the question is, why is the hate piled on Engvall, I figure it's because Engvall looks like a player that's capable of much more and I agree. Engvall gets $2.25 mil. per which I figure is a decent compensation for the value he provides, I don't think TO would have any problem trading Engvall and his contract, Kerfoot, who gets nothing but praise, is the type of player and contract that TO would or should have to sweeten the deal to get rid of.

Could Engvall be better, probably, but if he was TO couldn't keep him because he'd be worth more. For what Engvall does related to his contract, he's one of TO's true bargains especially when compared to what Kampf and Jarnkrok are paid. What was really interesting is the bottomless pit of praise that Kampf received from all, the media, the TV commentators and fans, yet his stats away from Engvall were horrendous , his stats with Engvall were what a team deserving 115 points needed.

Here's another head scratcher, splitting up Matthews and Marner, we seem to think that splitting them up will be the solution to all that ails the Leafs.

www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2022/11/15/23457942/toronto-maple-leafs-splitting-up-matthews-and-marner goes into this issue and concludes that yes the top 2 lines aren't providing enough quality results to make up for the lack of results from the bottom 2 lines, Dubie didn't bring in true quality players to fill in the bottom two lines and the results are/were predictable. We aren't going to see much of an improvement from the bottom 6 forwards, Engvall isn't such a great player that he can elevate the bottom 6 on his own.

Muzzin is gone for maybe the rest of the year, TO's defensive results are reasonable and are the only reason TO is staying afloat so Dubie needs to improve the bottom 6, bottom line.

He's struggling for offense this year, no doubt. If the Leafs could add another player who could put the puck in the net, then it would likely remove some eyes off of his offensive numbers; he's still pretty sound defensively.

So many players having "meh" type numbers so far this year.

 

[horner]

Man, this guy gets a lot of hate from Leaf fans and I don't understand it?

The function of bottom 6 forwards is, what, defend, be energetic, be physical, provide some offense and probably mostly puck possession. All the other attributes of the bottom 6 should lead to their primary function, establish possession.

Engvall hasn't been scoring much this year but that's true of pretty well all Leafs, last year Engvall had 35 points, 15 goals with zero PP time, that was fantastic totals from anyone playing most of the year with Kampf as their center, Kampf got the praise but it was Engvall that established possession, that moved the puck and set up the offense provided by his line plus he Pked and defended. Essentially it's the 3rd and 4th line's job to get the puck into the opposition's zone and then they are replaced by the 1st and 2nd lines which are supposed to provide offensive results from the established territorial advantage. I notice that it's Engvall that got the puck into the opposition's zone , not Kampf, not Jarnkrok, not Kerfoot when he plays on the bottom 2 lines, never Robertson nor Simmonds.

So the question is, why is the hate piled on Engvall, I figure it's because Engvall looks like a player that's capable of much more and I agree. Engvall gets $2.25 mil. per which I figure is a decent compensation for the value he provides, I don't think TO would have any problem trading Engvall and his contract, Kerfoot, who gets nothing but praise, is the type of player and contract that TO would or should have to sweeten the deal to get rid of.

Could Engvall be better, probably, but if he was TO couldn't keep him because he'd be worth more. For what Engvall does related to his contract, he's one of TO's true bargains especially when compared to what Kampf and Jarnkrok are paid. What was really interesting is the bottomless pit of praise that Kampf received from all, the media, the TV commentators and fans, yet his stats away from Engvall were horrendous , his stats with Engvall were what a team deserving 115 points needed.

Here's another head scratcher, splitting up Matthews and Marner, we seem to think that splitting them up will be the solution to all that ails the Leafs.

www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2022/11/15/23457942/toronto-maple-leafs-splitting-up-matthews-and-marner goes into this issue and concludes that yes the top 2 lines aren't providing enough quality results to make up for the lack of results from the bottom 2 lines, Dubie didn't bring in true quality players to fill in the bottom two lines and the results are/were predictable. We aren't going to see much of an improvement from the bottom 6 forwards, Engvall isn't such a great player that he can elevate the bottom 6 on his own.

Muzzin is gone for maybe the rest of the year, TO's defensive results are reasonable and are the only reason TO is staying afloat so Dubie needs to improve the bottom 6, bottom line.

He sucks this yr. Last game was his best .

 

[hobarth]

He sucks this yr. Last game was his best .

On the Leafs, who doesn't suck this year, JT has had a great start but otherwise they all seem to be playing like they never played together before. At least Engvall is playing with new linemates, expecting him to sore with eagles when he has to play with turkeys is most likely, not ideal.

My biggest issue with Kampf is the money, he's 4th line quality with 3rd line money, never a good thing.

TO is a 4 forward team with modest support from Engvall, the rest are just fill, Malgin is only looking good because he plays against other team's 4th lines, a 3rd/4th line tweener, his luster will dim if he gets elevated up the lineup, 4 points in 12 games doesn't scream magic and that's with PP time.

 

[Menzinger]

He gets far too much criticism for what he does on the ice. Too many people expect 3/4th line guys to have the abilities + hockey IQ of 1st liners.... Which they simply don't have.

That said, I DO think he's a good candidate for a trade in order to allow the team to spend that money on a top 9 guy with a different skillet. I don't think he's a Leaf after this summer one way or the other

 

[TMLAM34]

12 Forwards have played 10 games or more for the Leafs.



Of those 12 Forwards, Engvall is 12th in scoring. He has the 6th highest Cap hit.

So, if Engvall is a bargain, what are the other 5 players, paid less, outperforming him offensively?

He has the 6th highest PK time... so it's not like he's a critical piece there.

He's having a bad season, no question, and if he doesn't pick it up, he should sit, and have some Marlies try his spot.

Accountability.

Steeves or Anderson have definitely earned a look over Engvall.

 

[EK392000]

He's being paid to be a bit better than a regular bottom sixer whose primary goal is puck possession. Feel like there are a ton of options in the Leafs system and around the league that could perform this function for less than what Engvall makes. He doesn't justify his greater salary with offence either.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

He's always been the kind of guy who leaves you wanting more.

I would hate to see him finally find his game on another team, but so far he's been consistent at "leaves you wanting more".

I don't know. If I were an NHL GM I wouldn't waste the roster spot and salary on him.

I don't hate the guy, but it's hard to like him...

 

[Mickey Marner]

Hi Mrs. Engvall. Your son is 10 ply and can’t win a board battle to save his life.

 

[The Iceman]

On the Leafs, who doesn't suck this year, JT has had a great start but otherwise they all seem to be playing like they never played together before. At least Engvall is playing with new linemates, expecting him to sore with eagles when he has to play with turkeys is most likely, not ideal.

My biggest issue with Kampf is the money, he's 4th line quality with 3rd line money, never a good thing.

TO is a 4 forward team with modest support from Engvall, the rest are just fill, Malgin is only looking good because he plays against other team's 4th lines, a 3rd/4th line tweener, his luster will dim if he gets elevated up the lineup, 4 points in 12 games doesn't scream magic and that's with PP time.

Leafs tied for 5th in the NHL with 21 points...I think someone must be playing well. Not much to be negative about unless you search for something.

And Kampf is $1.5/season. Peanuts for a centre. No problem $$$ wise on the 4th line.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Man, this guy gets a lot of hate from Leaf fans and I don't understand it?

The function of bottom 6 forwards is, what, defend, be energetic, be physical, provide some offense and probably mostly puck possession. All the other attributes of the bottom 6 should lead to their primary function, establish possession.

Engvall hasn't been scoring much this year but that's true of pretty well all Leafs, last year Engvall had 35 points, 15 goals with zero PP time, that was fantastic totals from anyone playing most of the year with Kampf as their center, Kampf got the praise but it was Engvall that established possession, that moved the puck and set up the offense provided by his line plus he Pked and defended. Essentially it's the 3rd and 4th line's job to get the puck into the opposition's zone and then they are replaced by the 1st and 2nd lines which are supposed to provide offensive results from the established territorial advantage. I notice that it's Engvall that got the puck into the opposition's zone , not Kampf, not Jarnkrok, not Kerfoot when he plays on the bottom 2 lines, never Robertson nor Simmonds.

So the question is, why is the hate piled on Engvall, I figure it's because Engvall looks like a player that's capable of much more and I agree. Engvall gets $2.25 mil. per which I figure is a decent compensation for the value he provides, I don't think TO would have any problem trading Engvall and his contract, Kerfoot, who gets nothing but praise, is the type of player and contract that TO would or should have to sweeten the deal to get rid of.

Could Engvall be better, probably, but if he was TO couldn't keep him because he'd be worth more. For what Engvall does related to his contract, he's one of TO's true bargains especially when compared to what Kampf and Jarnkrok are paid. What was really interesting is the bottomless pit of praise that Kampf received from all, the media, the TV commentators and fans, yet his stats away from Engvall were horrendous , his stats with Engvall were what a team deserving 115 points needed.

Here's another head scratcher, splitting up Matthews and Marner, we seem to think that splitting them up will be the solution to all that ails the Leafs.

www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2022/11/15/23457942/toronto-maple-leafs-splitting-up-matthews-and-marner goes into this issue and concludes that yes the top 2 lines aren't providing enough quality results to make up for the lack of results from the bottom 2 lines, Dubie didn't bring in true quality players to fill in the bottom two lines and the results are/were predictable. We aren't going to see much of an improvement from the bottom 6 forwards, Engvall isn't such a great player that he can elevate the bottom 6 on his own.

Muzzin is gone for maybe the rest of the year, TO's defensive results are reasonable and are the only reason TO is staying afloat so Dubie needs to improve the bottom 6, bottom line.

This is what you started out saying


“The function of bottom 6 forwards is, what, defend, be energetic, be physical, provide some offense”

Defend ?
He actually gives the puck away to often and is very meek and mild and soft to defend when it comes to playoff hockey .

Energetic?
Wow , if we didn’t see him move out there I would think he was comatose

Physical ??????????
Omg he could be the second least physical player on our team after Tiny Malgin

Possession ????
He doesn’t have it on his stick long enough to impact possession , he either gets close to making a offensive play and then loops outward from a scoring chance and just shoots it , or he back in his zone and gives it away .



Offense ??????
Ok , what offense ??

GLG

 

[Tak7]

The function of bottom 6 forwards is, what, defend, be energetic, be physical, provide some offense and probably mostly puck possession.

Because he doesn't provide the things you've listed, despite having the tools to do so consistently.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Hi Mrs. Engvall. Your son is 10 ply and can’t win a board battle to save his life.

Hilarious

 

[Eye Test]

Was always a supporter as him being a third liner but this year he has been bad. Still a decent 4th liner though regardless.

 

[horner]

On the Leafs, who doesn't suck this year, JT has had a great start but otherwise they all seem to be playing like they never played together before. At least Engvall is playing with new linemates, expecting him to sore with eagles when he has to play with turkeys is most likely, not ideal.

My biggest issue with Kampf is the money, he's 4th line quality with 3rd line money, never a good thing.

TO is a 4 forward team with modest support from Engvall, the rest are just fill, Malgin is only looking good because he plays against other team's 4th lines, a 3rd/4th line tweener, his luster will dim if he gets elevated up the lineup, 4 points in 12 games doesn't scream magic and that's with PP time.

Engvall shys away from body contact
Last yr he was starting to get envolved physically angry going to the net.

 

[BackPassChampions]

Disagree. Not a big fan of him. He’s way too soft and it was extremely apparent in the playoffs Vs Tampa. His offence is way too streaky and I just don’t think he’s providing us enough of what we really need.

Out of 17 playoff games he hasn’t scored once and only has 4 points. Bottom 6 really failed us in the playoffs last year and he was a big part of that.

I don’t care what his stats are in the regular season. He’s just not good enough for the playoffs.

 

[Stephen]

He's a middle roster player who is prone to making the finesse play with the puck, who often makes a lower percentage play with the puck instead of absorbing physical contact and is built to do a lot more damage that he's willing to.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

i stopped reading after kerfoot gets nothing but praise lol