GDT: End of Season Media Availability - Players + Coach

[arttk]

I've heard second hand that the Canucks can't get good team doctors because they have to bill MSP, so the financial incentive isn't necessarily there coupled with the travel. But I'm not really sure if that's a province-specific or Canada-wide rule regarding sports teams, or if it even exists, and you'd think that the Whitecaps/Lions would have similar problems.

... I'm also not sure that I believe the organization doesn't take injuries seriously. They didn't let Quinn go to the 4 nations tournament, and it's hard to believe they wouldn't take something seriously with their highest paid player in Pettersson.

The thing is, if you read into it, other sports teams will immediately sit their players if they have knee tendonitis and yet our team is dead set on having our players play through it.

They also had Quinn play initially after the injury and then only stopped him when he really couldn’t.

 

[Grumbler]

At least EP40 is saying the right things and seem to know what went wrong…I’ll give him that. Still don’t have much hope he will turn it around next season. But based on the way exit interviews went we are giving him one more chance…hopefully the leash is short next season if he continues the poor performance.

 

[arttk]

The reality seems to be that his training just hasn't been up to par the past couple years. Management, Tocchet, and even Hughes have all acknowledged it. It's a little concerning that a pro level athlete who's going to be 27 at the start of next season is having his level of training questioned, and this better be a giant wake up call for Pettersson, or we'll be in huge trouble here.

A turnaround for the team next season is highly dependent on Pettersson getting his game back on track. Having a good summer of training should be a given for an athlete of his stature. This isn't a rookie trying to adjust to the rigours of being a professional athlete, this is a player who’s played 7 seasons in the NHL and is part of the leadership group.

That was never an issue until he got injured last season…

 

[supercanuck]

Sorry, but wasn't the reason for EP to not be in top shape, was that his knee injury was stopping him in getting into top shape. Didn't he acknowledge that he was never able to recover completely from it, and it dragged him down.

He's had a down year. He's an introvert. He is our 2nd most important player, and like MacKinnon and others, you are insane to give up on them if they have a bad season.

We are going into next season with a very solid defence, good goal tending duo, and who knows as far as forwards go.

Let's hope we have a bounce back year, EP improves and Hughes continues to be a Hart candidate.

Part of the problem with management's messaging on EP is because nothing is an actual injury to them. They had Mik play with a torn ACL for half the season. Quinn had like 2 separate injuries and they still played him. All injuries start off as day-to-day, but the player ends up being out for weeks instead]. In that sense, any tendonitis probably sounds like a joke to them and not a reason for "poor" offseason training.

I think there's some parallels to the Hodgson situation where his complaining real problems about his back snowballed into him feeling mistreated by management as they didn't believe him, and then becoming a daily issue for management.

 

[rypper]

Tocchet shooting the shit and busting balls with the media before the press conference started, he seemed pretty comfortable. The message makes me believe he's coming back as well.

 

[coastal_nuck]

You gotta love how Tocchet communicates to the media. He's honest and real. Doesn't sound rehearsed or programmed. Says a lot of the right things and you have to hope that the ability to reflect shows an ability to grow and improve.

Pettersson.. good lord. I'm not holding any hope that he gets out of this. Still think we need to trade him before July 1.

 

[I am toxic]

Part of the problem with management's messaging on EP is because nothing is an actual injury to them. They had Mik play with a torn ACL for half the season. Quinn had like 2 separate injuries and they still played him. All injuries start off as day-to-day, but the player ends up being out for weeks instead]. In that sense, any tendonitis probably sounds like a joke to them and not a reason for "poor" offseason training.

I think there's some parallels to the Hodgson situation where his complaining real problems about his back snowballed into him feeling mistreated by management as they didn't believe him, and then becoming a daily issue for management.

 

[ephmrl]

That was never an issue until he got injured last season…

Seems to be an issue since he switched his training from Timra to Stockholm two years ago.

 

[arttk]

Seems to be an issue since he switched his training from Timra to Stockholm two years ago.

he was on a 100pt+ pace before he was injured.

 

[God]

The thing is, if you read into it, other sports teams will immediately sit their players if they have knee tendonitis and yet our team is dead set on having our players play through it.

They also had Quinn play initially after the injury and then only stopped him when he really couldn’t.

I think Pettersson probably would've stopped playing if the tendonitis was so bad that he couldn't skate well. Like, I don't know how bad his injury was, but you also don't know. And I'm looking at the player choosing to play, and the team saying he's fine to play, and I'm not really seeing a point here at which anyone can be totally convinced the team has wronged Pettersson.

he was on a 100pt+ pace before he was injured.

On that clip I was talking about, the implication from Cam was that the off-season strength and conditioning wasn't sufficient enough to last a full season. I think it suggests that tendonitis is something most players are able to deal with and Pettersson's conditioning let him down. I don't know how true that is, and I can't find reports (shocker with how NHL teams are tight lipped about injuries) regarding other players dealing with the same issue.

 

[arttk]

I think Pettersson probably would've stopped playing if the tendonitis was so bad that he couldn't skate well. Like, I don't know how bad his injury was, but you also don't know. And I'm looking at the player choosing to play, and the team saying he's fine to play, and I'm not really seeing a point here at which anyone can be totally convinced the team has wronged Pettersson.


On that clip I was talking about, the implication from Cam was that the off-season strength and conditioning wasn't sufficient enough to last a full season. I think it suggests that tendonitis is something most players are able to deal with and Pettersson's conditioning let him down. I don't know how true that is, and I can't find reports (shocker with how NHL teams are tight lipped about injuries) regarding other players dealing with the same issue.

I mean we all saw that he didn’t skate well, that was painfully visible for everyone. Hockey players tends to be like that, that’s just hockey culture. I think it’s up to the teams to actually protect players or prevent them injuring themselves more instead of maximizing short term gains. I mean, this has been debated to death, the team let Mik, Hughes, Demko do the same thing and we’ve seen it backfire hard with Mik and Demko.

He still showed up to camp last season in pretty good shape. I mean you don’t really put up 100+ point pace for half a season if you are not in shape because we’ve seen what happens if you actually show up not in shape. Also if they really felt his prep was f***ing shit then they wouldn’t have put so much pressure for him to extend.

 

[God]

I mean we all saw that he didn’t skate well, that was painfully visible for everyone. Hockey players tends to be like that, that’s just hockey culture. I think it’s up to the teams to actually protect players or prevent them injuring themselves more instead of maximizing short term gains. I mean, this has been debated to death, the team let Mik, Hughes, Demko do the same thing and we’ve seen it backfire hard with Mik and Demko.

He still showed up to camp last season in pretty good shape. I mean you don’t really put up 100+ point pace for half a season if you are not in shape because we’ve seen what happens if you actually show up not in shape. Also if they really felt his prep was f***ing shit then they wouldn’t have put so much pressure for him to extend.

Again, I think the implication is that the off-season training program in 2023 wasn't good enough to withstand a full season. I don't really know anything about this but I'm just reading between the lines from what Cam said on his appearance, and from what Tocchet said today.

We can argue in circles about who to believe, but 45 points in 64 games isn't good enough.

 

[Diablo2020]

Elias himself gave enough accountability to keep everyone off his back and didnt let big excuses dictate his exit again.

Tocchet could have shifted the narrative slightly to protect his young star and instead told us "there was no bad guy really".

I fully expect Allvin and Jimmy to not be so nice on Monday.

They already have an idea of what his value is and who would want him you cant really tank it anymore so full send it.

 

[racerjoe]

Again, I think the implication is that the off-season training program in 2023 wasn't good enough to withstand a full season. I don't really know anything about this but I'm just reading between the lines from what Cam said on his appearance, and from what Tocchet said today.

We can argue in circles about who to believe, but 45 points in 64 games isn't good enough.

Honestly I don’t understand the wasn’t good enough to last the entire season…. Like that doesn’t make sense.

 

[David71]

with how EP has been acting, my gut says he’s waiting for his NTC to kick in, then asking for a trade. Something is just way off with him.

he doesnt want the spotlight shined on him asking him questions everyday. maybe to an eastern team. i think hes gone this offseason. a new set of top 6 forwards. mangement has at least 6-10months to fix the offense or else i think they're gonna get the axe as well. tocchet might return.. or go somewhere else.. I expect jimmy and alvin to take most of the heat for the moves they made. they made good ones sherwood,lankien/debrusk. but heinan/deharnais was head scratchers

 

[VanJack]

Hughes looked almost 'zombie-like' in that getaway-day scrum. Almost unfathomable how much of a toll this season has taken on him. It's like he's somehow carrying this year's #$#@%-show on his shoulders alone.

I know one inescapable conclusion. Things had better improve in a hurry in VanCity, and it better be next season. Another year like this, and Hughes is heading to the exits for sure.

 

[JT Milker]

They had Mik play with a torn ACL for half the season.

No they didn’t.

 

[I am toxic]

Honestly I don’t understand the wasn’t good enough to last the entire season…. Like that doesn’t make sense.

It makes total sense . . .

in opposite world

 

[I am toxic]

Deleted, f*** this website's ads are annoying

 

[rypper]

Honestly I don’t understand the wasn’t good enough to last the entire season…. Like that doesn’t make sense.

Yeah if anything your cardio would build to a level it needed to be. If you start the season in good enough shape and are exercising every night, it's not going down/away?

 

[Hodgy]

he was on a 100pt+ pace before he was injured.

Honestly I don’t understand the wasn’t good enough to last the entire season…. Like that doesn’t make sense.

I posted it in the other thread where Pettersson’s training came up as an issue based on the Robinson report, but Pettersson’s speed bursts dropped ten percent from 2022-23 to the first half of 2023-24, before he seems to have developed patellar tendinitis. So there is a quantifiable drop in his performance. His sleep bursts for the proceeding two seasons were basically identical too. This seems consistent with the poor training / preparation assertion. And it’s not just the off season as Tochett, who watched him every day in the regular season, is saying he needs to practice harder as well. So, at this point, it’s pretty hard to not conclude that there isn’t an issue with how Pettersson is training, preparing and practicing.

But of course the patellar tendinitis would have been a factor and probably compounded things for him. Certainly this was true for 2023-24. But he hasn’t disclosed that he had this injury last season and has only alluded to his training being compromised due to the injury, which, to me, makes sense to an extent, but, to me, wouldn’t be an excuse playing so terribly six months into the season. As many have pointed out, top players come back from significant injuries in season and don’t take six months to get back up to speed.

Edit: I should say, it’s possible he just won’t disclose this injury and still has it, but that would seem a bit odd given that he’s disclosed it in the past, and was willing to cite the injury’s impact on his off season training as a reason for his poor play. Perhaps he has damage to his knee that needs to be surgically prepared as @I am toxic suggests.

 

[andora]

Poor training can lead to things that cause twndonitis as well

Abother wrinkle

 

[I am toxic]

We know poor training was not what went on here. The training had him put up 100 point and pacing for 100 point seasons

Here's the thing with tendinitis - once you get to the point that scar tissue develops, you're essentially impaired permamently, no matter what you do, ime. If someone has experience otherwise, spill it

none of rest/ice/rehab/strengthening will make that scarring go away. None of it. And the tendon doesn't grow more material so that you have a full healthy amount of tissue plus scar tissue - you will always just have partly healthy tendon and partly scarred tendon

If you do debridement surgery, you end up with partly healthy tendon, and less scar tissue. Still not back to anywhere close to 100%. They will tell you that removing the scar tissue will allow for the tendon to heal, but it really won't in a full grown adult. Maybe if they took hgh. Anyway, the benefit of the surgery is less pain, less increase in scarring. Not improved performance

So if MRI's are showing scarring*, Petey is done as a 100 point player. He won't be able to train fully in the off season, and he will always be playing on one knee that is not all there

* and there is no way they aren't, right? Like this is basic stuff

Hopefully I am wrong. There's a first for everything

 

[iFan]

You can tell with Tocchets interview that he preferred to keep Miller over Pettersson. I wonder if he leaves if that has something to do with it. He’s not being given the forwards that play his style of system, the one top 6 forward we had who does play his way we traded him.

 

[ChilliBilly]

At least EP40 is saying the right things and seem to know what went wrong…I’ll give him that. Still don’t have much hope he will turn it around next season. But based on the way exit interviews went we are giving him one more chance…hopefully the leash is short next season if he continues the poor performance.

We all hope he returns to form. But what if he doesn't. There is nothing they can do next year. Sadly, trading him now will only get you pennies on the dollar. Right now his value is probably pretty low.