Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - A Forward Who Scores

[JT Milker]

Quite honestly tired of the constant rehashing of shit. Yes he was terrible for 50+ games last season. Yes he’s had bad stretches like this before. Yes it’s possible an injury affected his performance. Yes it’s possible he wasn’t actually injured.

I don’t care if Pettersson isn’t dangling 3 guys every shift. If he’s constantly playing like our best defensive forward night in night out getting Selke votes like he did 2 seasons ago, scores 80-85 points a season, and holds his own in the playoffs, he’s worth his contract. 8 years from now $11M will be equivalent to $8-9M today.

The constant Pettersson bickering and using the same constant lines of argument is actually so f***ing annoying at this point.

He was terrible at both ends against TB, so it’s not “night in night out”, hence the discussion here.

 

[Anthem]

If he could skate or shoot anywhere like he used to, yes. If he had his old speed bursts and was slapping the puck again but the puck wasn't going in it would be an entirely different story. But he doesn't have anywhere near his old top speed or his old shot.

And it's not due to lack of effort, that's plain as a day and you can see it on plays like when he tried to stop the empty net last game, chugged as hard as he could and dove to try and stop it but the entire time he's moving at like 50% of his old speed and it's almost painful to watch. That's not a lack of effort and it's not working on getting his game back, it's just a physical inability to access the top end speed he used to have.

Is it permanent? I doubt it but who knows. Apparently our team doesn't rest anything, even career threatening injuries, until eons after they should have been pulled out so EP won't come out unless he literally can't play anymore.


Great post and I am zero percent surprised it was ignored and overlooked by the denial and historical revisionism crowd.

But why would you expect him to peform at elite levels when his training was disrupted?

If a player loses signifigant offseason time to dealing with injury then I would expect them to be slower, less intense, not playing like they are feeling it, etc... for the first chunk of the season.

Which is exactly what we are seeing with Pettersson. It fits perfectly.

What doesn't fit is insisting that he's still hurt and that he's just suddenly learned to work around it because he's just that awesome.

But fine, you're right. He's still hurt. Months off did nothing. it's hopeless and they should immediately trade him because tendonitis has completely and permanently destroyed the ability of a 25 year old. Lets all embrace this insane idea that's based on absolutely nothing except our own obsession with giving the guy a permanent excuse.

> Great post and I am zero percent surprised it was ignored and overlooked by the denial and historical revisionism crowd.

Because it's not a great post, it's baseless speculation as an excuse to coddle the guy.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I dont trust your judgment on this.

I'm watching the same games. He's not abandoning the play or opting out of races he'd win.

He's getting skated by and he knows it.

Thats why you see the effort today on the empty net goal only for him to come up frustratingly short on Point flying down the wing. Pettersson could not keep pace.

Look at the angle he took initially - he had an idea to angle him to the boards around the redline. He had the angle to do it. Then he ended up doing a Blueger desperation dive because Point was past him.

Was he not competing on this play or was it something else that failed him?

This is happening all over the ice but that was just a glaring example.

There was a sequence where the puck was in the left corner of the offensive zone as it came onto the Dmans stick in a somewhat undefined situation - Pettersson was approaching the man and the puck because he read the play, positioned well and went to do his part on the forecheck... but he didn't approach with speed and the stick out to disrupt as soon as possible. He approached with the stick sideways trying to read and block the pass.

This is a Boeser tactic when he knows he won't get to the puck carrier quick enough on his closeout to get there before the pass opportunity.

He's there executing his assignment but lacking the speed in his play, to play the ideal way.

When he is taking the puck through the neutral zone, he's mostly angling to the boards away from the Dman rather than challenging them to the middle or straight on and adjusting from there. He doesn't have the skating to blow by or threaten that so he is playing off their responsibilities and taking angles to draw them away from Center ice and open passing seams.

His offensive zone play sees him frequently planting himself netfront and using pivots instead of any real hard skating. His recent stretch of points has been a lot of this netfront play or executing fairly basic passes intelligently within the team structure. He's relying on the system rather than being creative with his skating.

He is laboring to move - whatever the reason.

He can take some steps and get a passable pace in a line but his short area quickness is not there. He can predict the open space and use pivots to trick checkers but there's no burst once he escapes the initial check.

I've watched these games where he's been putting up points and he's still struggling to get around the ice how he'd like to.

He hasn't had games where he's chasing everything down and is all over the ice. He's performed better statistically but he's still making calculated moves all over the ice. He's learning how to play at a slower speed with the angles and plays that pace affords him. He's a fairly undynamic passing center right now.

"Suddenly engaged" strikes me as disingenuous.

His recent success has been very much within the team structure and he is simply making smart quick plays within the team structure that have lead to points recently. He's not suddenly skating through half their team... he's improving his net front play, his board play, his positional checking and his defensive positioning. He isn't intermittently looking like his old self - he's playing a new brand.

Just because you have elite IQ for the game it doesn't mean you can remake your game instantly. I hope he hasn't lost his skating like this permanently but we are witnessing a redesign in how he plays - a development of skills he didn't have before and there are growing pains.

Thank you. This is analysis from someone who understands the game and actually knows what he's watching happen from play to play and understands situational reads, when a guy would go hard, and what it looks like when someone is compensating for a lack of burst in his legs.

The "Hurr durr he doesn't care. He's a p***y" stuff is genuinely embarrassing and coming from some of the usual suspects but also a lot of people who should seriously seriously know better.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I also love that people are like, "If we don't know about it explicitly and unreservedly, he's not injured he's being a bitch".

Smash cut to Filip Hronek who needs 2 months to heal his shoulder and so he's figuring he may as well get lower body surgery on an injury that has been bugging him. Did you all know about that injury? You didn't?

You can really tell the ball hockey boys from those who have played physical hockey in a good league. Because under that circumstance, you're banged up a lot more often than you 'can't play' sometimes worse than others. And I didn't play pro or anything where it's even worse.

 

[sting101]

And......

Great game last night. Put the comeback and game on his shoulders. Played on his front foot and was clever and elusive off puck. This is the Pettersson we know and all love.

The shot off the crossbar would have brought the house down and some of his jukes and dekes were causing fits for the Blues defenders. Night and Day vs Sunday/Tampa

1G 1A, 9 shot attempts, multiple set ups, a takeaway, tremendous off puck movement and puck support, drew another penalty with deception, 2 blocks 10 face off wins and 23:15 of ice. 0 hits and quite frankly i loved it because it doesn't help him to play that way.

 

[theguardianII]

But why would you expect him to peform at elite levels when his training was disrupted?

If a player loses signifigant offseason time to dealing with injury then I would expect them to be slower, less intense, not playing like they are feeling it, etc... for the first chunk of the season.

Which is exactly what we are seeing with Pettersson. It fits perfectly.

What doesn't fit is insisting that he's still hurt and that he's just suddenly learned to work around it because he's just that awesome.

But fine, you're right. He's still hurt. Months off did nothing. it's hopeless and they should immediately trade him because tendonitis has completely and permanently destroyed the ability of a 25 year old. Lets all embrace this insane idea that's based on absolutely nothing except our own obsession with giving the guy a permanent excuse.

> Great post and I am zero percent surprised it was ignored and overlooked by the denial and historical revisionism crowd.

Because it's not a great post, it's baseless speculation as an excuse to coddle the guy.

I still say concussion related combined with coaching instructions.

Has anyone noticed he isn't trying to hit as much as he was and his production has increased with spots of his old self here and there?

It took Naslund and D. Sedin the better part of a year after one concussion to get back to the high skill form.
IMO EP has suffered from 3 with two where he missed time but was listed as anything else but each time he wasn't the same for longer and longer periods of time.

Tendonitis CAN become chronic if it wasn't treated correctly ASAP. IF that is the case then he will continue to decline. I'm sorry but if that is the case then a trade should be a serious consideration not an excuse.

 

[bossram]

@ohnoeszz Thank you for your excellent analysis. Absolutely spot on from someone who clearly knows what he's watching.

The people still just got calling Petey "lazy" or "soft" or whatever truly couldn't come up with an explanation even one-tenth of the quality.

 

[JT Milker]

Thank you. This is analysis from someone who understands the game and actually knows what he's watching happen from play to play and understands situational reads, when a guy would go hard, and what it looks like when someone is compensating for a lack of burst in his legs.

The "Hurr durr he doesn't care. He's a p***y" stuff is genuinely embarrassing and coming from some of the usual suspects but also a lot of people who should seriously seriously know better.

This poster was a Benning apologist.

 

[JT Milker]

@ohnoeszz Thank you for your excellent analysis. Absolutely spot on from someone who clearly knows what he's watching.

The people still just got calling Petey "lazy" or "soft" or whatever truly couldn't come up with an explanation even one-tenth of the quality.

Pettersson is a “soft” player, even when he’s on his game. He’s not going to physically punish you, he’s amusingly easy to knock off the puck, and very obviously sulks when things don’t go his way. Which is fine, he’s shifty/crafty and has very good hand-eye/stick skills to make up for it and things usually go his way. But soft is a very reasonable stylistic decription.

 

[Ernie]

And......

Great game last night. Put the comeback and game on his shoulders. Played on his front foot and was clever and elusive off puck. This is the Pettersson we know and all love.

The shot off the crossbar would have brought the house down and some of his jukes and dekes were causing fits for the Blues defenders. Night and Day vs Sunday/Tampa

1G 1A, 9 shot attempts, multiple set ups, a takeaway, tremendous off puck movement and puck support, drew another penalty with deception, 2 blocks 10 face off wins and 23:15 of ice. 0 hits and quite frankly i loved it because it doesn't help him to play that way.

And yet when he wasn't on the ice with Hughes he looked invisible.

He's the guy you want to pair with Hughes because he's getting stuff done. The inability to breakout is making everyone look bad. Only Garland and Hoglander were generating anything with the chip and chase.

 

[Bgav]

And yet when he wasn't on the ice with Hughes he looked invisible.

He's the guy you want to pair with Hughes because he's getting stuff done. The inability to breakout is making everyone look bad. Only Garland and Hoglander were generating anything with the chip and chase.

Pretty hard to do anything when the dcore is complete ass and cant make a pass.

 

[JT Milker]

Everyone looks good with Hughes because he’s pretty close to a generational talent.

Also agreed that physical EP is worst EP.

 

[sting101]

Pretty hard to do anything when the dcore is complete ass and cant make a pass.

odd comment by Ernie. I remember at least twice where they had possession in STL zone and Desharnais and Soucy turned it into nothing. Desharnais on the one was a fumbling mess.

And yes trying to come out with possession with that bottom 4 is a disaster and almost impossible for possession players. It works better for Sherwood and Hoglander because chip and chase is mostly their game anyway.

Garland is one of the best play driving players in the entire league right now. Had a couple tough giveaways last night up high but it's scary to think where we would be without him this year.

Pettersson was fantastic all game at both ends. With Hughes they could get on the attack and create

 

[Zarpan]

He's been pretty good over the last month and a bit.

Dom Luszczyszyn's model rates Pettersson's performances a bit above MacKinnon's from November 5th onward.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

FWIW, he maintained that pace up until about two weeks before he signed his extension. He had a 3 point game vs Detroit on Feb15th than had a goal and two assists in the next 7 games prior to signing his extension on March 2nd. did the knee injury begin then, or was there something else that affected his play? Post extension he went even colder netting just 14 points in his final 20 games and just 3 in 12 playoff games. It would be fascinating to find out when Rutherford first turned up the heat.

The injury gets worse and worse as you keep straining it.

I don't believe JT has a mental ailment. Or at least not the kind people have inferred based on the (horrible) press release announcing his LOA. He's hot headed, fiery as phuck, and anger management has been an ongoing issue (and always will be). Those are good qualities IMO, it drives him to compete hard.

Pettersson is arrogant....and a bit of an asshole. we've seen it since he got here. He's jerk to the media covering the team. He has at time looked like a play driving #1 C who can undress you with his ability to carry the puck through traffic and beat goalies clean from distance with an elite shot. Other times he plays like he'd rather be doom scrolling on tiktok. This isn't about one game.

Oh if you only knew...

 

[Jerry the great]

He's been pretty good over the last month and a bit.

Dom Luszczyszyn's model rates Pettersson's performances a bit above MacKinnon's from November 5th onward.

I think anyone that watches the games has seen that he's been better (for the most part) over the the last 15 games, but he hasn't even been better than Sherwood over that period, never mind Nate Mackinnon.

Full disclosure, i ascribe zero value to Dom's models.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Since November 9th he's 6th in league scoring.

He's not at his best eye test wise but we are talking a 1.4 PPG which is a 115 point pace. He's not playing spectacular but he's playing well.

I think he's becoming a whipping boy when their are other issues costing them points moreso than EP40

 

[geebster]

It's crazy how our best forward for a month now who plays both sides of the puck and is our only top 6 center is a topic of discussion and criticism still. A lot of it seems to be because of perception and not reality. Like Petey makes faces and mopes while Miller will make huge mistakes or have rough stretches but him snapping sticks or yelling at guys is him trying to motivate. To be clear neither should be criticized for that.

Petey wasn't anywhere near good enough for the first few weeks of the season. But its been a month. He had 9 points in 5 games going into Tampa, doesn't put up any and is a bum again. Kaprizov had no points against the Kings and only 1 point over 2 games. Trade the bum.

To me if there's a play that killed it for me last night it was Boeser not going on a 2 on 1 in OT and instead curling back into 2 opposition players inside his own blueline and giving it away. We need pre headshot Brock right now, Hughes and to a lesser extent Petey and doing too much. I don't want Brock getting hate like Petey does but man that was a game losing play we didn't need.

 

[Vector]

Thanks everyone. This is now over 1000 posts.