Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - A Forward Who Scores

[Ernie]

come on man....the dots are easy to connect.

edit: but in case they aren't, Quinn Hughes is the heartbeat of this team.

Funny enough people don't chant his name.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Edit: deleted because I realized I don't care.

 

[MS]

Maybe my eyes deceive me, but I've read plenty of criticism of both, as well as a lot of fan support. People were pretty unhappy with Miller when he was screaming at his teammates all over the ice, yeah. Then others tell Pettersson to go kill himself when he does poorly. Both have also been serenaded by crowds of people while they've struggled. I really don't think it's as simple as you're making it out to be.

Pettersson was given a monstrous free pass for his performances in 20-21 and 21-22 when Miller was crucified for his spells of poor defensive play at the same time.

It's only this year when we went through it with Pettersson *again* and the 1 ESG in 45 games thing that fans finally started to get legitimately pissed with Pettersson. And even then it was only when his poor play continued to start this year - he was mostly given a free pass for his awful play to close out last season, too.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Pettersson was given a monstrous free pass for his performances in 20-21 and 21-22 when Miller was crucified for his spells of poor defensive play at the same time.

It's only this year when we went through it with Pettersson *again* and the 1 ESG in 45 games thing that fans finally started to get legitimately pissed with Pettersson. And even then it was only when his poor play continued to start this year - he was mostly given a free pass for his awful play to close out last season, too.

I dunno. Maybe people view lack of defensive effort as more objectionable. Not sure. I actually deleted my initial post that you quoted (but too late) because I realized I have no interest in really engaging in all of this again. Appreciate the response. Outta here.

 

[Jerry the great]

Funny enough people don't chant his name.

I don't GAF what people chant, he's the best player we've ever had and a top 5 non goalie in the game. We can lose either Pettersson or Miller for a long stretch and still be a better than 500 team. If we lose Hughes, we're a lottery picker.

 

[Ernie]

I don't GAF what people chant, he's the best player we've ever had and a top 5 non goalie in the game. We can lose either Pettersson or Miller for a long stretch and still be a better than 500 team. If we lose Hughes, we're a lottery picker.

um ok. why so angry.

 

[Jerry the great]

um ok. why so angry.

not angry at all.

 

[Wisp]

"I still want to be perpetually mad about the slow start," is pretty unhinged. You guys, again, are unserious.

"But he was bad last year too and it continued!" It was an 89 point season where he made 7 mill... A pretty successful Canucks season overall. Get over it.

 

[racerjoe]

Literally everyone involved in this has said it's nothing or minor.

Everything about how this has been handled by the team indicates that it's minor.

The only people who don't think it's minor are a segment of fans who simply can't process that their favourite player might have some character issues.

And if your skating is 90% and you only produce 90% of your best performance, that's OK. If your skating goes to 90% and you deliver a 30% performance, it's a problem. And that's what's been happening for most of the year, and why there is criticism.

And as has been discussed here a bunch, all the same claims about his skating were being made in 2021 when he was playing with a minor wrist injury. And the Edge stats were down for his skating when he was playing with a wrist injury. This isn't nearly as straightforward as the injury apologists want to make it.

When has the team handled anything with injuries right? Demko was day to day for what 8 months? Hronek? Mik and his Knee? Hell moments before JT took his break Toc was giving it to him. No one is seriously hurt according to this team ever.

He is 90% and producing 90% of the way there… that seems to check out.

It’s also been pointed out it’s not an effort thing. We have seen this from adv stats and a great breakdown a few pages ago.

 

[MS]

When has the team handled anything with injuries right? Demko was day to day for what 8 months? Hronek? Mik and his Knee? Hell moments before JT took his break Toc was giving it to him. No one is seriously hurt according to this team ever.

He is 90% and producing 90% of the way there… that seems to check out.

It’s also been pointed out it’s not an effort thing. We have seen this from adv stats and a great breakdown a few pages ago.

According to the player himself it's not a serious thing. Literally nothing about the way this has been handled indicates it's more than a minor niggle.

It's a compete thing. This player has not competed for most of 2024.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I just get Naslund 2007-08 vibes from this player. Obviously a bit more superior as he's in his prime but it really feels like he's so easily rattled and would rather be elsewhere.

 

[Hodgy]

I think it began before that.

Pettersson said he was playing with a knee injury since January. Do you think he was lying? And why would he lie?

 

[Hodgy]

I think the compete and effort thing is a bit nuanced. To be a top player in the NHL, you need to be push yourself consistently to ensure you stay at the top of your game. If you are an offensive player like Pettersson, you need to always be attacking and continuing to move your feet. You need to practice like that, and you need to play like that. And I think sometimes players become successful as a result of doing those things but then become complacent and sit back and rely on their skill, and at first this works to a pretty significant degree, but every passing day they don't compete 100% and move their fee and attack they lose that trait, and slowly you start to see a decline in effectiveness and production.

At this point the player starts to see the lack of production and gets frustrated, but the real tipping point wasn't the start of the lack of production, it was the start of when that player didn't "compete" 100%.

And so the player then tries to work himself out of the slump, and often (usually?) a player is able to do so. And when that player is trying to work himself out of a slump, that player is genuinely putting in the effort, but unfortunately, you can't turn on a switch and be back to where you were before when you were competing 100% and moving your feet and attacking at the highest. And so there is truth to when fans will defend that player pointing out they are trying and putting in the effort, and I think that's true, but it ignores the larger context.

I think the above can explain Pettersson's play, and I think this kind of thing happens to relatively injury free players.

 

[racerjoe]

According to the player himself it's not a serious thing. Literally nothing about the way this has been handled indicates it's more than a minor niggle.

It's a compete thing. This player has not competed for most of 2024.

He also said that it changed how he trained, and they had to learn to train around it… how many minor injuries do you need to do that for?

 

[LemonSauceD]

Quite honestly tired of the constant rehashing of shit. Yes he was terrible for 50+ games last season. Yes he’s had bad stretches like this before. Yes it’s possible an injury affected his performance. Yes it’s possible he wasn’t actually injured.

I don’t care if Pettersson isn’t dangling 3 guys every shift. If he’s constantly playing like our best defensive forward night in night out getting Selke votes like he did 2 seasons ago, scores 80-85 points a season, and holds his own in the playoffs, he’s worth his contract. 8 years from now $11M will be equivalent to $8-9M today.

The constant Pettersson bickering and using the same constant lines of argument is actually so f***ing annoying at this point.

 

[Jerry the great]

He also said that it changed how he trained, and they had to learn to train around it… how many minor injuries do you need to do that for?

how many major injuries result in no requirement to miss games or even decrease TOI?

 

[racerjoe]

how many major injuries result in no requirement to miss games or even decrease TOI?

Hronek last year

 

[Jerry the great]

Hronek last year

no. guys play through stuff in the playoffs all the time....and he went out of his way not to blame anything on an injury. Whatever ails Pettersson has supposedly been around for 11 months now. he didn't miss any camp and played preseason games, both of which we have been re+arded if he's been dealing with a major injury for almost a full year.

 

[racerjoe]

no. guys play through stuff in the playoffs all the time....and he went out of his way not to blame anything on an injury. Whatever ails Pettersson has supposedly been around for 11 months now. he didn't miss any camp and played preseason games, both of which we have been re+arded if he's been dealing with a major injury for almost a full year.

So you just decided to change yourr argument? You see that is called moving the goalposts.

We know what ails Pettersson… look it up.

 

[Jerry the great]

So you just decided to change yourr argument? You see that is called moving the goalposts.

We know what ails Pettersson… look it up.

The player referenced the "major injury" in his media availability after we were knocked out of the playoffs...but said it wasn't serious.

Tocchet specified tendonitis and pretty much dismissed it entirely; though he's said probably half a dozen times now that Pettersson needs to "move his feet" more.

He missed no time down the stretch or in the playoffs.

4 months of offseason passed and the player, when asked about it in camp, said something about working around it over the summer and that it was a non issue.

he hasn't missed a game, practice, or shift this season. He's still killing penalties and playing PP1. Are you actually trying to suggest he was and still is dealing with a "major injury"?

 

[racerjoe]

The player referenced the "major injury" in his media availability after we were knocked out of the playoffs...but said it wasn't serious.

Tocchet specified tendonitis and pretty much dismissed it entirely; though he's said probably half a dozen times now that Pettersson needs to "move his feet" more.

He missed no time down the stretch or in the playoffs.

4 months of offseason passed and the player, when asked about it in camp, said something about working around it over the summer and that it was a non issue.

he hasn't missed a game, practice, or shift this season. He's still killing penalties and playing PP1. Are you actually trying to suggest he was and still is dealing with a "major injury"?

And Hronek was adamant he was hurt at the end of the year and then it came out he was very much hurt… he also didn’t miss anything from this injury.

And I don’t know how you can brush past something that forces you to change how you train…. It spoken by people who have never been halfway hurt.

I have shattered my arm in an accident, and yes that is more “major” but there was things I have to now do differently. It’s not that this is a major injury, so much that it takes a long time to come back from. Like Demko injury, it wasn’t deemed to be major, and it’s kept him out for how long?

 

[Anthem]

Pettersson was given a monstrous free pass for his performances in 20-21 and 21-22 when Miller was crucified for his spells of poor defensive play at the same time.

It's only this year when we went through it with Pettersson *again* and the 1 ESG in 45 games thing that fans finally started to get legitimately pissed with Pettersson. And even then it was only when his poor play continued to start this year - he was mostly given a free pass for his awful play to close out last season, too.

You mean when he missed a ton of time with a wrist injury then took months to recover?

And Hronek was adamant he was hurt at the end of the year and then it came out he was very much hurt… he also didn’t miss anything from this injury.

And I don’t know how you can brush past something that forces you to change how you train…. It spoken by people who have never been halfway hurt.

I have shattered my arm in an accident, and yes that is more “major” but there was things I have to now do differently. It’s not that this is a major injury, so much that it takes a long time to come back from. Like Demko injury, it wasn’t deemed to be major, and it’s kept him out for how long?

Doesn't it make a lot more sense that he dealt with the knee during the summer and he's just working on getting his game back up to elite levels?

I really don't understand the insistence that he's still hurt after spending the offseason dealing with a pretty well understood issue.

The problem with Demko was they didn't understand the issue and then had to figure out how a goalie deals with it so it doesn't just recur.

No offense to you but it's like some fans don't think anyone can heal from anything. Every moderately serious injury is "he'll never be the same again".

 

[DFAC]

Still waiting for him to take over a game and rip the puck with confidence. Miss it.

Hope he can get back to that level.





This doesn't even look like the same player atm. You guys are delusional if you think nothing is wrong with him (either physically or mentally). He absolutely needs to play better

 

[Anthem]

He also said that it changed how he trained, and they had to learn to train around it… how many minor injuries do you need to do that for?

You make changes to make sure the injury doesn't become a recurring problem. Say by resting the knee and then setting up a workout regime that pays special attention to the knee to make sure it's going to be stay healthy.

 

[mriswith]

Doesn't it make a lot more sense that he dealt with the knee during the summer and he's just working on getting his game back up to elite levels?

If he could skate or shoot anywhere like he used to, yes. If he had his old speed bursts and was slapping the puck again but the puck wasn't going in it would be an entirely different story. But he doesn't have anywhere near his old top speed or his old shot.

And it's not due to lack of effort, that's plain as a day and you can see it on plays like when he tried to stop the empty net last game, chugged as hard as he could and dove to try and stop it but the entire time he's moving at like 50% of his old speed and it's almost painful to watch. That's not a lack of effort and it's not working on getting his game back, it's just a physical inability to access the top end speed he used to have.

Is it permanent? I doubt it but who knows. Apparently our team doesn't rest anything, even career threatening injuries, until eons after they should have been pulled out so EP won't come out unless he literally can't play anymore.

I dont trust your judgment on this.

I'm watching the same games. He's not abandoning the play or opting out of races he'd win.

He's getting skated by and he knows it.

Thats why you see the effort today on the empty net goal only for him to come up frustratingly short on Point flying down the wing. Pettersson could not keep pace.

Look at the angle he took initially - he had an idea to angle him to the boards around the redline. He had the angle to do it. Then he ended up doing a Blueger desperation dive because Point was past him.

Was he not competing on this play or was it something else that failed him?

This is happening all over the ice but that was just a glaring example.

There was a sequence where the puck was in the left corner of the offensive zone as it came onto the Dmans stick in a somewhat undefined situation - Pettersson was approaching the man and the puck because he read the play, positioned well and went to do his part on the forecheck... but he didn't approach with speed and the stick out to disrupt as soon as possible. He approached with the stick sideways trying to read and block the pass.

This is a Boeser tactic when he knows he won't get to the puck carrier quick enough on his closeout to get there before the pass opportunity.

He's there executing his assignment but lacking the speed in his play, to play the ideal way.

When he is taking the puck through the neutral zone, he's mostly angling to the boards away from the Dman rather than challenging them to the middle or straight on and adjusting from there. He doesn't have the skating to blow by or threaten that so he is playing off their responsibilities and taking angles to draw them away from Center ice and open passing seams.

His offensive zone play sees him frequently planting himself netfront and using pivots instead of any real hard skating. His recent stretch of points has been a lot of this netfront play or executing fairly basic passes intelligently within the team structure. He's relying on the system rather than being creative with his skating.

He is laboring to move - whatever the reason.

He can take some steps and get a passable pace in a line but his short area quickness is not there. He can predict the open space and use pivots to trick checkers but there's no burst once he escapes the initial check.

I've watched these games where he's been putting up points and he's still struggling to get around the ice how he'd like to.

He hasn't had games where he's chasing everything down and is all over the ice. He's performed better statistically but he's still making calculated moves all over the ice. He's learning how to play at a slower speed with the angles and plays that pace affords him. He's a fairly undynamic passing center right now.

"Suddenly engaged" strikes me as disingenuous.

His recent success has been very much within the team structure and he is simply making smart quick plays within the team structure that have lead to points recently. He's not suddenly skating through half their team... he's improving his net front play, his board play, his positional checking and his defensive positioning. He isn't intermittently looking like his old self - he's playing a new brand.

Just because you have elite IQ for the game it doesn't mean you can remake your game instantly. I hope he hasn't lost his skating like this permanently but we are witnessing a redesign in how he plays - a development of skills he didn't have before and there are growing pains.

Great post and I am zero percent surprised it was ignored and overlooked by the denial and historical revisionism crowd.