Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - A Forward Who Scores

[Snauen]

I dont trust your judgment on this.

I'm watching the same games. He's not abandoning the play or opting out of races he'd win.

He's getting skated by and he knows it.

Thats why you see the effort today on the empty net goal only for him to come up frustratingly short on Point flying down the wing. Pettersson could not keep pace.

Look at the angle he took initially - he had an idea to angle him to the boards around the redline. He had the angle to do it. Then he ended up doing a Blueger desperation dive because Point was past him.

Was he not competing on this play or was it something else that failed him?

This is happening all over the ice but that was just a glaring example.

There was a sequence where the puck was in the left corner of the offensive zone as it came onto the Dmans stick in a somewhat undefined situation - Pettersson was approaching the man and the puck because he read the play, positioned well and went to do his part on the forecheck... but he didn't approach with speed and the stick out to disrupt as soon as possible. He approached with the stick sideways trying to read and block the pass.

This is a Boeser tactic when he knows he won't get to the puck carrier quick enough on his closeout to get there before the pass opportunity.

He's there executing his assignment but lacking the speed in his play, to play the ideal way.

When he is taking the puck through the neutral zone, he's mostly angling to the boards away from the Dman rather than challenging them to the middle or straight on and adjusting from there. He doesn't have the skating to blow by or threaten that so he is playing off their responsibilities and taking angles to draw them away from Center ice and open passing seams.

His offensive zone play sees him frequently planting himself netfront and using pivots instead of any real hard skating. His recent stretch of points has been a lot of this netfront play or executing fairly basic passes intelligently within the team structure. He's relying on the system rather than being creative with his skating.

He is laboring to move - whatever the reason.

He can take some steps and get a passable pace in a line but his short area quickness is not there. He can predict the open space and use pivots to trick checkers but there's no burst once he escapes the initial check.

I've watched these games where he's been putting up points and he's still struggling to get around the ice how he'd like to.

He hasn't had games where he's chasing everything down and is all over the ice. He's performed better statistically but he's still making calculated moves all over the ice. He's learning how to play at a slower speed with the angles and plays that pace affords him. He's a fairly undynamic passing center right now.

"Suddenly engaged" strikes me as disingenuous.

His recent success has been very much within the team structure and he is simply making smart quick plays within the team structure that have lead to points recently. He's not suddenly skating through half their team... he's improving his net front play, his board play, his positional checking and his defensive positioning. He isn't intermittently looking like his old self - he's playing a new brand.

Just because you have elite IQ for the game it doesn't mean you can remake your game instantly. I hope he hasn't lost his skating like this permanently but we are witnessing a redesign in how he plays - a development of skills he didn't have before and there are growing pains.

To sum this up; he has lost his skating top speed? And also his abillity to shoot the puck the way he did before? To me it sounds like issues that (atleast one of them) can be fixed. Someone in Vancouver should talk to him (preferably someone from the training staff) about it, face to face ( I can not do that, I live on the other side of the planet)

 

[arttk]

It's been the pattern for his whole career. You have no idea what you're going to get.

2 slumps in this whole career and always coincide with an injury so therefore conclusion is .. you never going to know what you are going to get with Petey.

 

[Curm]

2 slumps in this whole career and always coincide with an injury so therefore conclusion is .. you never going to know what you are going to get with Petey.

I totally get what you're saying, and he does appear to be getting his game back as I noted earlier, but a case could be made that what Pettersson is as a player and singular asset may not be worth $11.5 million to this iteration of the Canucks and may hold more value as a trade chip before his protection kicks in.

Is the team better off adding a quality piece on D and a downgrade at center in a return, or keeping Pettersson and his cap hit and throwing prospects and draft capital at acquiring the D and making it work cap wise?

A Cozens-Byram type return would be attractive, though not necessarily those two given Byram's injury history and Cozens perhaps not being best suited long term as a center, but something like that.

Like I said, a case could be made for either scenario, I'm kind of on the fence at this point, but it'll be interesting to see what they do next.

 

[arttk]

I totally get what you're saying, and he does appear to be getting his game back as I noted earlier, but a case could be made that what Pettersson is as a player and singular asset may not be worth $11.5 million to this iteration of the Canucks and may hold more value as a trade chip before his protection kicks in.

Is the team better off adding a quality piece on D and a downgrade at center in a return, or keeping Pettersson and his cap hit and throwing prospects and draft capital at acquiring the D and making it work cap wise?

A Cozens-Byram type return would be attractive, though not necessarily those two given Byram's injury history and Cozens perhaps not being best suited long term as a center, but something like that.

Like I said, a case could be made for either scenario, I'm kind of on the fence at this point, but it'll be interesting to see what they do next.

it depends on his health and if he can ever recover. like what @ohnoeszz said in more detailed, Petey has completely changed his game this season and while those changes could make him a complete player, it won't matter until he recovers his speed and power. He is playing at like 80% right now and somehow he's still close to a PPG and will probably be like a 90 point player if he doesn't get better and plays the same way for the rest of the season.

Trading Petey away and seeing him recover on another team will most certainly lead to immense regrets. Do you want to see him score 130 on another team?

 

[Curm]

Exactly, and that's what they need to weigh. Personally, I always thought Pettersson was a complete player, but I don't see him scoring 130 points.

 

[Bobby9]

it depends on his health and if he can ever recover. like what @ohnoeszz said in more detailed, Petey has completely changed his game this season and while those changes could make him a complete player, it won't matter until he recovers his speed and power. He is playing at like 80% right now and somehow he's still close to a PPG and will probably be like a 90 point player if he doesn't get better and plays the same way for the rest of the season.

Trading Petey away and seeing him recover on another team will most certainly lead to immense regrets. Do you want to see him score 130 on another team?

He wont't do that on any team, ever.

 

[arttk]

Exactlysww, and that's what they need to weigh. Personally, I always thought Pettersson was a complete player, but I don't see him scoring 130 points.

He scored at that pace for half a season last year before he got injured. He’s scoring at a 100 pt pace since he changed his game like 18 games ago?
So yeah a Petey with speed and ability to shoot can easily go back to the same pace he was at prior to injury

 

[Curm]

He scored at that pace for half a season last year before he got injured. He’s scoring at a 100 pt pace since he changed his game like 18 games ago?
So yeah a Petey with speed and ability to shoot can easily go back to the same pace he was at prior to injury

I'm not here to debate with you, but this is his 7th year in the NHL, and you're using half of one season as a barometer, whereas, someone with a counter position, can point to well over that amount of time when he's shat the bed. But I'm not that guy. lol

 

[arttk]

I'm not here to debate with you, but this is his 7th year in the NHL, and you're using half of one season as a barometer, whereas, someone with a counter position, can point to well over that amount of time when he's shat the bed. But I'm not that guy. lol

well this is the timeline...
24-25: recovering from injury and has absolute shit start, like 30 point pace and we'll see how it goes for the rest
23-24: half season 130 pace and then injury
22-23: healthy season, 101 pts
21-22: recovering from an injury, 90+ point pace for half a season and 40ish point pace for half.
20-21: missed like 6-9 months due to injury in the bubble season
19-20: sophomore season, almost PPG in reg season and PPG in playoffs in a season that was cut short by covid
18-19: rookie season

 

[Jerry the great]

He scored at that pace for half a season last year before he got injured. He’s scoring at a 100 pt pace since he changed his game like 18 games ago?
So yeah a Petey with speed and ability to shoot can easily go back to the same pace he was at prior to injury

No he didn't. At the halfway mark of the season he had 53 points (2 fewer than JT) in 41 GP....so he was on pace for 106 points.

 

[Jerry the great]

FWIW, he maintained that pace up until about two weeks before he signed his extension. He had a 3 point game vs Detroit on Feb15th than had a goal and two assists in the next 7 games prior to signing his extension on March 2nd. did the knee injury begin then, or was there something else that affected his play? Post extension he went even colder netting just 14 points in his final 20 games and just 3 in 12 playoff games. It would be fascinating to find out when Rutherford first turned up the heat.

 

[arttk]

No he didn't. At the halfway mark of the season he had 53 points (2 fewer than JT) in 41 GP....so he was on pace for 106 points.

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Why are we excluding Jan when he was player of the month and when he was the most productive?

 

[Jerry the great]

Why are we excluding Jan when he was player of the month and when he was the most productive?

At Feb1st he was on pace for the same number of points.

and it was you that said he was on pace for 130 over the first half of the season, so that's the measuring stick i used.

 

[MS]

2 slumps in this whole career and always coincide with an injury so therefore conclusion is .. you never going to know what you are going to get with Petey.

20-21 did not coincide with an injury.

And AGAIN, 'I can't play hockey effectively or compete to earn my $11 million salary if I have minor knee tendonitis' is not acceptable. This is just f***ing elementary shit.

 

[arttk]

At Feb1st he was on pace for the same number of points.

and it was you that said he was on pace for 130 over the first half of the season, so that's the measuring stick i used.

ok fair enough, I thought it was higher, probably got confused by his first month scoring.

20-21 did not coincide with an injury.

And AGAIN, 'I can't play hockey effectively or compete to earn my $11 million salary if I have minor knee tendonitis' is not acceptable. This is just f***ing elementary shit.

He only played like 26 games that season in 20-21. If you are saying, he put up only 21 points in 26 games in the season where players were locked up in a bubble due to a world wide pandemic after Benning gutted the team and the whole team played like they were depressed therefore he was dogging it. it seems like you are finding a reason to gripe vs looking at what is actually happening.

 

[MS]

ok fair enough, I thought it was higher, probably got confused by his first month scoring.


He only played like 26 games that season in 20-21. If you are saying, he put up only 21 points in 26 games in the season where players were locked up in a bubble due to a world wide pandemic after Benning gutted the team and the whole team played like they were depressed therefore he was dogging it. it seems like you are finding a reason to gripe vs looking at what is actually happening.

He was absolutely f***ing terrible in 20-21 and somehow gets a free pass for it. He was worse than JT Miller but people still bitch about how Miller performed in the first half of that season.

 

[supercanuck]

My goodness. This thread. You would think that this fanbase would be better than this. Literally, the guy everyone assumes is the heart and soul of the team (lion, heartbeat, *insert superlative description*) has been sitting at home for almost a month with mental health and unknown physical ailments, and you've got people calling EP a p***y for a bad game after stepping up and lifting this team in the lion's absence. This is getting as ridiculous as all the ppl calling the Sedins "sisters" way back when.

 

[Bobby9]

well this is the timeline...
24-25: recovering from injury and has absolute shit start, like 30 point pace and we'll see how it goes for the rest
23-24: half season 130 pace and then injury
22-23: healthy season, 101 pts
21-22: recovering from an injury, 90+ point pace for half a season and 40ish point pace for half.
20-21: missed like 6-9 months due to injury in the bubble season
19-20: sophomore season, almost PPG in reg season and PPG in playoffs in a season that was cut short by covid
18-19: rookie season

Most of these injuries you have made up. He didn't miss any significant time so bad could the injury be?

 

[MS]

1st, he still put up 21 in 26, define absolutely f***ing terrible. Feels like you are saying that just to justify your opinion rather than looking at it objectively.

2nd, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE in the world, was f***ed up in different ways that season/year, what part of the "we are in a pandemic and it f***ing sucks to have no life other than hockey" do you not understand. Yeah Miller was bad because he had controller disconnect moments, but we saw everyone struggle for various reasons. This is before we factor in the fact the whole team played like they were shellshocked from that infamous Benning offseason.

Scoring a point-per-game didn't seem to excuse being disengaged for JT Miller during his rough periods. 'Global pandemic' also didn't seem to excuse Miller's play in the eyes of most fans here.

Again, the Petey crowd seems to have different standards for him for pretty much everything across the board. He can do no wrong. Nothing but excuses.

 

[Jerry the great]

My goodness. This thread. You would think that this fanbase would be better than this. Literally, the guy everyone assumes is the heart and soul of the team (lion, heartbeat, *insert superlative description*) has been sitting at home for almost a month with mental health and unknown physical ailments, and you've got people calling EP a p***y for a bad game after stepping up and lifting this team in the lion's absence. This is getting as ridiculous as all the ppl calling the Sedins "sisters" way back when.

The heart and soul of this team hasn't missed a game since the 22/23 season and currently leads the team in scoring.

JT is on a LOA for unknown reasons and it's never been disclosed whether he initiated the leave, or the team did.

Other than the period coinciding with Miller going on leave, Pettersson has been checked out since just before he signed his massive contract.

 

[Ernie]

Pettersson has one game where he wasn't 100% on and people are triggered.

Early in the game he actually was trying to make the kind of plays that people are complaining he hasn't been making but they weren't connecting. He tried to bust into the zone 1 on 4 but got turned back quickly. It's almost like he doesn't have the speed to do that right now.

Somehow it's his fault that the Canucks' can't stop the Lightning from swiss cheese-ing the Canucks defence.

The heart and soul of this team hasn't missed a game since the 22/23 season and currently leads the team in scoring.

He's missed a bunch of games right now.

He doesn't lead the team in scoring.

 

[Jerry the great]

Pettersson has one game where he wasn't 100% on and people are triggered.

Early in the game he actually was trying to make the kind of plays that people are complaining he hasn't been making but they weren't connecting. He tried to bust into the zone 1 on 4 but got turned back quickly. It's almost like he doesn't have the speed to do that right now.

Somehow it's his fault that the Canucks' can't stop the Lightning from swiss cheese-ing the Canucks defence.



He's missed a bunch of games right now.

He does'nt lead the team in scoring.

come on man....the dots are easy to connect.

edit: but in case they aren't, Quinn Hughes is the heartbeat of this team.

 

[supercanuck]

The heart and soul of this team hasn't missed a game since the 22/23 season and currently leads the team in scoring.

JT is on a LOA for unknown reasons and it's never been disclosed whether he initiated the leave, or the team did.

Other than the period coinciding with Miller going on leave, Pettersson has been checked out since just before he signed his massive contract.

So both players have struggled with and are possibly still struggling with physical and mental ailments. Why is one looked so much poorly on then the other?

So Pettersson is now stepping up in the time of need for the team and the pitchforks are out for his first bad game since then?

 

[Jerry the great]

So both players have struggled with and are possibly still struggling with physical and mental ailments. Why is one looked so much poorly on then the other?

So Pettersson is now stepping up in the time of need for the team and the pitchforks are out for his first bad game since then?

I don't believe JT has a mental ailment. Or at least not the kind people have inferred based on the (horrible) press release announcing his LOA. He's hot headed, fiery as phuck, and anger management has been an ongoing issue (and always will be). Those are good qualities IMO, it drives him to compete hard.

Pettersson is arrogant....and a bit of an asshole. we've seen it since he got here. He's jerk to the media covering the team. He has at time looked like a play driving #1 C who can undress you with his ability to carry the puck through traffic and beat goalies clean from distance with an elite shot. Other times he plays like he'd rather be doom scrolling on tiktok. This isn't about one game.

 

[supercanuck]

I don't believe JT has a mental ailment. Or at least not the kind people have inferred based on the (horrible) press release announcing his LOA. He's hot headed, fiery as phuck, and anger management has been an ongoing issue (and always will be). Those are good qualities IMO, it drives him to compete hard.

Pettersson is arrogant....and a bit of an asshole. we've seen it since he got here. He's jerk to the media covering the team. He has at time looked like a play driving #1 C who can undress you with his ability to carry the puck through traffic and beat goalies clean from distance with an elite shot. Other times he plays like he'd rather be doom scrolling on tiktok. This isn't about one game.

Anger management issues on his own teammates is good, but not answering reporters nicely is "arrogant....and a bit of an asshole". One guy is definitely injured, but the other is not competing and just "doom scrolling on Tiktok".

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. We won't be changing each others' view of the situation.

Hopefully, management/coaching will support both players each to be their best and we will see the best for both by the playoffs.