Proposal: EDM - MN

[MNRube]

To the question, Why Minnesota, I do not have a compelling answer.

Makes sense given everything you wrote is complete nonsense.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The only reason Draisaitl wouldn’t extend here is if he wanted to be in a sexier market to be “the guy” and with all due respect there’s nothing sexy about Minnesota.

And if Edmonton did deal Draisaitl, it sure wouldn’t be for that. A team that was just within a whisper of a Stanley Cup isn’t trading a superstar for a downgrade, a middle sixer, and ~18th overall. Awful value.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Is Boldy Rossi for your franchise player the knew Ryder Halak and a 2nd?

Followed by Minnesota fans ripping on the player they are trying to get. Arguing they are overated even though no one on the opposing fanbase will do the trade.

Classic!

I don’t think that is necessarily fair. Minnesota just doesn’t have the kind of value on their roster or in their system that they can afford to give up for Draisaitl and come out ahead competitively, I think that’s more the point Wild fans are making.

If you give up the kind of pieces it takes to land a player like Draisaitl then you are just creating more holes on a roster that is already a little thin.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Seems likely that A) this isn’t enough to move Draisaitl and B) no team would or could meet the eye test of what an HFB poster would want to move him.

 

[roon]

The only reason Draisaitl wouldn’t extend here is if he wanted to be in a sexier market to be “the guy” and with all due respect there’s nothing sexy about Minnesota.

You're entitled to that opinion I guess.

And if Edmonton did deal Draisaitl, it sure wouldn’t be for that. A team that was just within a whisper of a Stanley Cup isn’t trading a superstar for a downgrade, a middle sixer, and ~18th overall. Awful value.

The odds are quite low that either Drai or McDavid take a discount to stay in Edmonton - plus you have both the Nurse and Cambell boat anchors....you are about to pay Bouchard way more than he is worth. You honestly might not be able to afford Drai....and if thats the case, you lose quite a bit of leverage.

 

[TS Quint]

Weird because that looks absolutely insane to me for a guy who is gonna be 29 soon and has one year left on his deal

29?! Roll him and his wheelchair into the grave now, he’s cooked.

 

[MNRube]

Drai in his first 3 seasons: 135 points in 191 games for 0.72 PPG. Remove his bad rookie year and give him his first 3 full seasons and he’s at 0.85.

Boldy in his first 3 seasons: 171 in 203 for 0.84 PPG

This trade is a massive overpay. Especially when Boldy is just entering his prime while Draisatl is leaving his. Oilers fans, as usual, are completely delusional

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You're entitled to that opinion I guess.



The odds are quite low that either Drai or McDavid take a discount to stay in Edmonton - plus you have both the Nurse and Cambell boat anchors....you are about to pay Bouchard way more than he is worth. You honestly might not be able to afford Drai....and if thats the case, you lose quite a bit of leverage.

Edmonton doesn’t lose any leverage of any kind. They’d have every team in the league making offers if they did decide to move him, and most of them would be a lot more enticing than Minnesota could muster.

Drai in his first 3 seasons: 135 points in 191 games for 0.72 PPG. Remove his bad rookie year and give him his first 3 full seasons and he’s at 0.85.

Boldy in his first 3 seasons: 171 in 203 for 0.84 PPG

This trade is a massive overpay. Especially when Boldy is just entering his prime while Draisatl is leaving his. Oilers fans, as usual, are completely delusional

Then don’t make offers for fan favourite superstars on one of the top teams in the league. Simple. Nobody is out here trying to pry Boldy from your cold dead fingers. We don’t want him. We want to keep Draisaitl, and no collection of lesser pieces from the Wild changes that opinion. Delusion is thinking that a team that was one game away from a Cup is trading a top 5 player in the league to you for Boldy+. And I really like Boldy.

 

[MNRube]

Then don’t make offers for fan favourite superstars on one of the top teams in the league. Simple. Nobody is out here trying to pry Boldy from your cold dead fingers. We don’t want him. We want to keep Draisaitl, and no collection of lesser pieces from the Wild changes that opinion. Delusion is thinking that a team that was one game away from a Cup is trading a top 5 player in the league to you for Boldy+. And I really like Boldy.

“ isn’t trading a superstar for a downgrade, a middle sixer, and ~18th overall. Awful value.”

I didn’t make the offer. But your valuations are clearly disengenious. Nobody is paying that much for Drai when he’s almost 30 and is about to command a massive contract

 

[roon]

Edmonton doesn’t lose any leverage of any kind. They’d have every team in the league making offers if they did decide to move him, and most of them would be a lot more enticing than Minnesota could muster.

Ok - lets be specifc - who could and more importantly would top that offer for Drai?

 

[ElPrimeTime]

“ isn’t trading a superstar for a downgrade, a middle sixer, and ~18th overall. Awful value.”

I didn’t make the offer. But your valuations are clearly disengenious. Nobody is paying that much for Drai when he’s almost 30 and is about to command a massive contract

Looking at the OP... where was the lie in Chaotic's response or valuation.

Is Brody a downgrade on Draisaitl right now? Yes
Is Rossi a middle sixer? Yes
With Draisaitl do the Wild make the playoffs, turning their 1st round pick to at best, 17th overall? Probably Yes.

I don't see how his values are "clearly disingenuous".

 

[AKL]

Looking at the OP... where was the lie in Chaotic's response or valuation.

Is Brody a downgrade on Draisaitl right now? Yes
Is Rossi a middle sixer? Yes
With Draisaitl do the Wild make the playoffs, turning their 1st round pick to at best, 17th overall? Probably Yes.

I don't see how his values are "clearly disingenuous".

That's what being disingenuous is. He's not wrong, but he's oversimplifying it to the point that he's ignoring what makes Rossi and Boldy valuable.

Rossi is in fact a middle sixer, but it ignores the fact that he's still on his ELC and has potential to improve.
Boldy is truly a downgrade, but it ignores the fact that he's signed long term to a deal that's already fair at worst, with the potential to improve and make that deal look like a bargain.

The value in this package is Rossi and Boldy are already good young NHL players with years of relatively cheap control left, in contrast to Draisaitl being older than them (by at least 6 years) and set to get a massive payday next summer.

None of this is to say anything about the value of this deal or whether Edmonton should accept or not, but reducing Boldy to "a downgrade" and reducing Rossi to "a middle sixer" in order to justify declining it is the part that's disingenuous.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Ok - lets be specifc - who could and more importantly would top that offer for Drai?

Specifically, Oilers and Rangers fans have had much more amicable discussions around Draisaitl+ for Shesterkin+Zibanejad+.

It's not my favourite offer, but it's more in line with what the Oilers want, which is to win now. The Wild aren't even a playoff team right now. Edmonton wouldn't be looking to them for win-now pieces.

“ isn’t trading a superstar for a downgrade, a middle sixer, and ~18th overall. Awful value.”

I didn’t make the offer. But your valuations are clearly disengenious. Nobody is paying that much for Drai when he’s almost 30 and is about to command a massive contract

Which means you think that the wild would offer even less for him? Talk about delusional. Spare parts don't return players of Draisaitl's caliber.

Draisaitl is a better player than Matt Tkachuk, and Tkachuk returned a top line forward coming off a massive season, a right shot top pairing defenceman in his prime, a B prospect, and a first. And this is while flipping the Flames the bird and wiping his ass with the jersey on the way out.

 

[rynryn]

you guys don't seem to understand how much harder it is to work a $14m a year player into your roster than to build around him. He's not young enough to build around anymore.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That's what being disingenuous is. He's not wrong, but he's oversimplifying it to the point that he's ignoring what makes Rossi and Boldy valuable.

Rossi is in fact a middle sixer, but it ignores the fact that he's still on his ELC and has potential to improve.
Boldy is a downgrade, but it ignores the fact that he's signed long term to a deal that's already fair at worst, with the potential to improve and make that deal look like a bargain.

The value in this package is Rossi and Boldy are already good young NHL players with years of relatively cheap control left, in contrast to Draisaitl being older than them (by at least 6 years) and set to get a massive payday next summer.

I didn't ignore it at all. OP has Draisaitl on an extension, so theyre getting him longterm too. Draisaitl is one of the top centers in the league. He's going to be paid appropriately. That's on the Wild to negotiate, but Edmonton isn't taking discounts just because of the hand-wringing about how expensive he's going to be. Don't want to pay him, don't trade for him.

Rossi has a very complicated history that also makes me a bit leery. Characterizing him as a middle sixer isn't unfair in the slightest. Sure he has one year of his ELC left, and then he needs to get paid too. That doesn't benefit us longterm.

I like Boldy a lot, but he's not Leon Draisaitl. He probably never will be. That's not a slight on him, it's just the facts. Very few players in league history have ever been that.

In short, I see OP's offer as a downgrade today with no guarantee of being an upgrade in the longterm and a middling first isn't enough to mitigate that risk.

you guys don't seem to understand how much harder it is to work a $14m a year player into your roster than to build around him. He's not young enough to build around anymore.

Then don't trade for him. That's what we're saying. If you don't want to pay him, then don't, but don't expect Oiler fans to be over the moon with the value presented, because it's not very good. Options A, B, C, all the way through Y are to keep him. Option Z is to trade him but only if he makes it clear he doesn't want to stay here, and if that's the case, it's open to the highest bidder.

 

[AKL]

I didn't ignore it at all. OP has Draisaitl on an extension, so theyre getting him longterm too. Draisaitl is one of the top centers in the league. He's going to be paid appropriately. That's on the Wild to negotiate, but Edmonton isn't taking discounts just because of the hand-wringing about how expensive he's going to be. Don't want to pay him, don't trade for him.

Rossi has a very complicated history that also makes me a bit leery. Characterizing him as a middle sixer isn't unfair in the slightest. Sure he has one year of his ELC left, and then he needs to get paid too. That doesn't benefit us longterm.

I like Boldy a lot, but he's not Leon Draisaitl. He probably never will be. That's not a slight on him, it's just the facts. Very few players in league history have ever been that.

In short, I see OP's offer as a downgrade today with no guarantee of being an upgrade in the longterm and a middling first isn't enough to mitigate that risk.


Then don't trade for him. That's what we're saying. If you don't want to pay him, then don't, but don't expect Oiler fans to be over the moon with the value presented, because it's not very good.

I don't care if you want to do it or not. If what you got out of my post was that I was trying to convince you it's a good deal for you, you completely missed the mark.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I don't care if you want to do it or not. If what you got out of my post was that I was trying to convince you it's a good deal for you, you completely missed the mark.

Well, you called me disingenuous for not waxing poetic on why Boldy and Rossi are valuable, while you reduced Draisaitl to an expensive old man, so I suppose you can play that game too, hey?

 

[AKL]

Well, you called me disingenuous for not waxing poetic on why Boldy and Rossi are valuable, while you reduced Draisaitl to an expensive old man, so I suppose you can play that game too, hey?

I didn't do that, and I can see you're not here to discuss anything in good faith, so enjoy your day

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I didn't do that, and I can see you're not here to discuss anything in good faith, so enjoy your day

You did do that though. I highlighted the negatives of OP's package. You highlighted the negatives of Draisaitl. I fail to see how you've discussed anything in better faith than I have.

Hope the view from your high horse is good, though.

 

[AKL]

You did do that though. I highlighted the negatives of OP's package. You highlighted the negatives of Draisaitl. I fail to see how you've discussed anything in better faith than I have.

Hope the view from your high horse is good, though.

1) I didn't say anything about Draisaitl's value and I didn't refer to him as an expensive old man
2) I highlighted the age difference and the cost and control because those have legitimate value in a salary cap world
3) I didn't use Draisaitl's age or cost or lack of control to diminish what he is, I said it to highlight the value Boldy and Rossi could have here
4) You used "downgrade" and "middle sixer" to diminish Boldy and Rossi's value
5) For the third time, I didn't say Draisaitl had less value because he's an expensive old man, those were your words and thoughts

I hope this helps

 

[ViD]

So, basically Minnesota will have Draisaitl - Kaprizov and a whole bunch of nothing?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

1) I didn't say anything about Draisaitl's value and I didn't refer to him as an expensive old man
2) I highlighted the age difference and the cost and control because those have legitimate value in a salary cap world
3) I didn't use Draisaitl's age or cost or lack of control to diminish what he is, I said it to highlight the value Boldy and Rossi could have here
4) You used "downgrade" and "middle sixer" to diminish Boldy and Rossi's value
5) For the third time, I didn't say Draisaitl had less value because he's an expensive old man, those were your words and thoughts

I hope this helps

1) you got pissy with me for not fawning over how young and cost controlled the Wild pieces are. You could at least fleetingly mention that Draisaitl is one of the absolute best players in the league.
2) being a superstar also has value in the salary cap world.
3) that is the same thing in a trade discussion
4) because that is what they are currently. Could they be more than that, sure, but that's not all that important considering we are a win-now team and OP's trade makes us worse in the short term.
5) you certainly implied it. If you want to pretend that you weren't implying Draisaitl's age and future contract decreases his value, that's on you, but other Wild fans are outright saying it.

 

[rynryn]

So, basically Minnesota will have Draisaitl - Kaprizov and a whole bunch of nothing?

yes. we should jump at the chance.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

So, basically Minnesota will have Draisaitl - Kaprizov and a whole bunch of nothing?

if losing two pieces off the main roster leaves the Wild with "nothing" they really shouldn't be making trade proposals for the likes of Leon Draisaitl.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

Not that I should expect more from a fanbase that thought Spurgeon for Draisaitl straight across was fair value, but hey. I guess we're just used to getting lowballed.

The Spurgeon for Draisaitl conversation was one of my HF highlights.