Series Talk: ECSF: New York Rangers vs. Carolina Hurricanes (NYR Lead 3-2)

[clmetsfan]

This is the problem with stats, distortion. Those particular ones, for instance, make the Canes' PP seem way better than the next-level dogshit it has actually been.

1 high danger chance in 15 mins of PP time makes them seem better than they are?

 

[GG96]

If they are going to call it there, they should call it all over the ice. Those cross checks happen 100 times a game in front of the net and in the corners. You can't just call it because Trocheck loses his balance. Honestly all 3 penalties called in OT were weaker and I think should have been let go. The refs injected themselves into the game, and it made for a worse product.

That + the Fox flops that the refs kept calling made the game less enjoyable.

I’m not sure if you have ever played, but that type of crosscheck did exactly what it was supposed to do. You push down on the pants and it causes the player to lose their balance.

And Fox didn’t flop. And Wennberg didn’t flop. This idea what every penalty is a flop is so stupid.

2 posts ago you literally just whined that "Necas created that whole situation by being a gutless bitch." There's no saltier tears than crying someone won't stand still waiting for your meathead to connect with a cheapshot flying elbow to the head. None more salty.

Why, thank you.

Except his arm was tucked until Necas bailed.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I’m not sure if you have ever played, but that type of crosscheck did exactly what it was supposed to do. You push down on the pants and it causes the player to lose their balance.

I've played, refereed, and coached. That's a very soft call.

And Fox didn’t flop.

I'm a huge Adam Fox fan, but he absolutely flopped, and twice it led to NYR powerplays.

 

[AssaultPK]

Carolina genuinely was GARBAGE against the islanders save for two big third periods in games 2 and 5 btw

Anyone shocked at the Rangers being up 2-0 hasn't paid attention. Also, the whiplash from facing a garbage PK unit to a top unit in the Rangers is there. Freddy Anderson also looks worse when he actually has to face a team who also shoots the damn puck. To the Hurricanes, I hope this spells the end of Brind'amour and co if they get beaten by the Rangers. The past six years have been a tremendous waste of time and effort.

Carolina should have won lastnight, and freddy looks great

 

[Osakahaus]

Carolina should have won lastnight, and freddy looks great

Carolina shoulda coulda woulda all they wanted, the Rangers had the higher quality chances

 

[Tryamw]

1 high danger chance in 15 mins of PP time makes them seem better than they are?

Yes...
They have been about as threatening as a fortune cookie fortune that blank

 

[clmetsfan]

Carolina should have won lastnight, and freddy looks great

You mean except for the soft goals, fat rebounds, and sub-90 save percentage?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

As you are seeing, playoffs are a different beast. Special teams are making a noticeable difference in NYR's favor as I said pre-series it would.

It's against lesser competition in the regular season. Perhaps Canes are better than the Rangers at killing average powerplays and better at scoring against average penalty kills.

But playoffs are about how you are against the other best teams in the league when they gameplan around you for 4-7 games straight. The one size-fits-all way of finding success in the regular season against two dozen teams doesn't always translate against a single good team night after night.

There's still a lot of series left to play though. The lopsided special teams performance can easily swing the other way with some adjustments (even though I hope they don't).

Don't disagree with any of this and even stated in another post that the NYR PP should be feared and the best way Canes can avoid getting burned there is to stay out of the box... which they haven't done.

All of the PP goals that NYR have scored in this series are perfect examples of them playing to their strengths and leaning into Carolina's weaknesses. They aren't good at moving bodies from the front of the net and Freddie doesn't have amazing rebound control. The 3rd and 4th goals aren't on him, but more the scrambly Canes in front of the net.

Aho scooped the puck out from under Freddie and put it right onto Kreider's stick. Not ideal. The 2OT winning goal was a crazy pinball follow the puck and Trochek was in the right place right time to slide it home after another scramble.

So I go back to... don't take penalties. But if you do you have to get better at clearing things in front of the net. You can't play the game of chasing the Rangers trying to intercept cross ice passes because they are too good at that and it will leave Mika (or whoever) open for one-timers that will go in if it's a clean look.

I think the take away the Canes should have on the PP side is that they just need to get pucks to the net. Igor's only real weakness(ish) is on long range shots and probably going for tips or high blocker. You aren't scoring on him in close and low on the ice for the most part. He is amazingly quick with his legs and he covers angles super well so cross ice passes won't work on him the way they do on other goalies. He has good rebound control but sometimes he overplays the angles and can be out of position for the rebound. Canes need to scoop those up like Kreider and Trochek due.

Guys like Staal, Martinook, Jarvis, Guentzel, Aho Noesen, Drury can all do that. They had chances last game but didn't bury them when they did.

100% agree you cannot play against the Rangers like other teams and expect to win based on what works against other teams/goalies.

 

[clmetsfan]

Don't disagree with any of this and even stated in another post that the NYR PP should be feared and the best way Canes can avoid getting burned there is to stay out of the box... which they haven't done.

All of the PP goals that NYR have scored in this series are perfect examples of them playing to their strengths and leaning into Carolina's weaknesses. They aren't good at moving bodies from the front of the net and Freddie doesn't have amazing rebound control. The 3rd and 4th goals aren't on him, but more the scrambly Canes in front of the net.

Aho scooped the puck out from under Freddie and put it right onto Kreider's stick. Not ideal. The 2OT winning goal was a crazy pinball follow the puck and Trochek was in the right place right time to slide it home after another scramble.

So I go back to... don't take penalties. But if you do you have to get better at clearing things in front of the net. You can't play the game of chasing the Rangers trying to intercept cross ice passes because they are too good at that and it will leave Mika (or whoever) open for one-timers that will go in if it's a clean look.

I think the take away the Canes should have on the PP side is that they just need to get pucks to the net. Igor's only real weakness(ish) is on long range shots and probably going for tips or high blocker. You aren't scoring on him in close and low on the ice for the most part. He is amazingly quick with his legs and he covers angles super well so cross ice passes won't work on him the way they do on other goalies. He has good rebound control but sometimes he overplays the angles and can be out of position for the rebound. Canes need to scoop those up like Kreider and Trochek due.

Guys like Staal, Martinook, Jarvis, Guentzel, Aho Noesen, Drury can all do that. They had chances last game but didn't bury them when they did.

100% agree you cannot play against the Rangers like other teams and expect to win based on what works against other teams/goalies.

I feel like this last part sums up all of Brind'Amour's playoff coaching struggles. He's got his system, and it's made the Canes a great regular season team, but he doesn't account for the fact that a playoff series involves intense scouting and planning for the exact opponent in front of you. It's not "win this one and then we have a new opponent with new tendencies the day after tomorrow." Brind'Amour simply doesn't make adjustments when teams gameplan specifically to stop what the Canes do well.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

If they are going to call it there, they should call it all over the ice. Those cross checks happen 100 times a game in front of the net and in the corners. You can't just call it because Trocheck loses his balance. Honestly all 3 penalties called in OT were weaker and I think should have been let go. The refs injected themselves into the game, and it made for a worse product.

That + the Fox flops that the refs kept calling made the game less enjoyable.

They called a far less impactful crosscheck on Goodrow, turning a Rangers PP into a 4v4 and the Canes scored.

Carolina had two PPs in OT at that point. The crosscheck was blatant and in open ice and on the puck carrier and he fell down and it would've led to a breakaway AND the refs know they just gave Carolina their second OT PP. I mean the amount of factors there this penalty gets called 10/10 times in this circumstance.

There were 3 PPs in almost 30 minutes of OT time, that's not exactly the refs injecting themselves into the game and that's probably them calling 1/10th of the infractions both ways.

Guentzel punches Fox in the face directly in front of the ref, we're blaming the refs for calling the retaliation? A lesson all players learn in mites?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

You mean except for the soft goals, fat rebounds, and sub-90 save percentage?

No Freddie was great last game. Made a ton of game-saving stops in the moment.

Goal 1 - He was completely screened and couldn't see Laf's shot at all. Maybe he didn't cover the net as well as possible but when you can't see the shot coming there's not a lot you can do. It was also a great shot that picked the corner

Goal 2 - This was amazing team passing play and a show of patience from the Rangers. They moved the puck up the ice beautifully and kept it away from the Canes forwards and defence allowing Laf to streak up the ice and tap in a great cross ice pass from Fox. Perfectly placed. No goalie is stopping that unless you cut down the pass

Goal 3 - He was on top of it and Aho scooped it out and put it on Kreider's stick. Literally not on him at all

Goal 4 - Crazy pinball bounce where the puck pops up in the air and there is a mad scramble in front of the net. Rebound goes to Trocheck and he slides it home amongst the chaos

Agree with you on Freddie's rebound control in that it is a bit of a weakness but in general the Canes aren't great at clearing the crease and getting those rebounds out of harms way. Like maybe he could have played goal 1 and 2 slightly better but very likely those get the same result regardless of who is in net. Game 2 not on him at all.

Sub 900 is the pickiest of pickiest as well based on there being 39 shots. Was he better than Igor? No. Igor was fantastic obviously but Freddie didn't lose them the game at all. Canes taking dumb penalties and not converting on the PP and the chances they had did.

 

[NorthStar4Canes]

1 high danger chance in 15 mins of PP time makes them seem better than they are?

Yes. On the PP their mobility reminds me of nothing so much as 5 life-sized, wooden nutcracker players in giant bubble hockey game spinning around going nowhere.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

They called a far less impactful crosscheck on Goodrow, turning a Rangers PP into a 4v4 and the Canes scored.

Carolina had two PPs in OT at that point. The crosscheck was blatant and in open ice and on the puck carrier and he fell down and it would've led to a breakaway AND the refs know they just gave Carolina their second OT PP. I mean the amount of factors there this penalty gets called 10/10 times in this circumstance.

There were 3 PPs in almost 30 minutes of OT time, that's not exactly the refs injecting themselves into the game and that's probably them calling 1/10th of the infractions both ways.

Guentzel punches Fox in the face directly in front of the ref, we're blaming the refs for calling the retaliation? A lesson all players learn in mites?

I mean Fox punched Guentzel first so it is dumb they both didn't go off but you can't punch back and it was pretty clear the Rangers were doing stuff to have the Canes react, and then fall down like a ton of bricks to get the calls. The camera going to Trochek, Fox, etc after these penalties where they have shit eating grins is all you need to know about it. But it worked and it's absolutely 100% stupid on the Canes for falling for it.

 

[S E P H]

Andersen HAS to do a better job when it comes to tracking pucks around his feet, I swear that was the 3 goal Rangers scored yesterday because he second-guessed himself where the puck was.

 

[Drytoast]

Good christ that was a dangerous hit. That skate coming down...yikes!

 

[Leonardo87]

Rangers need to be better at ES, which has been an obvious thing since the regular season. If the refs swallow their whistles (Doubt it) I can see Carolina having a serious edge if the Rangers have to rely on ES to score.

This series is going to go the distance. 6 or 7 games, imo.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

They called a far less impactful crosscheck on Goodrow, turning a Rangers PP into a 4v4 and the Canes scored.

And it was a weak call, shouldn't have been made.

Carolina had two PPs in OT at that point. The crosscheck was blatant and in open ice and on the puck carrier and he fell down and it would've led to a breakaway AND the refs know they just gave Carolina their second OT PP. I mean the amount of factors there this penalty gets called 10/10 times in this circumstance.

Those aren't factors that should be considered. And it very clearly wasn't a breakaway considering he didn't even get the puck afterwards.

There were 3 PPs in almost 30 minutes of OT time, that's not exactly the refs injecting themselves into the game and that's probably them calling 1/10th of the infractions both ways.

All 3 penalties were very soft calls IMO.

Guentzel punches Fox in the face directly in front of the ref, we're blaming the refs for calling the retaliation? A lesson all players learn in mites?

They should have taken both if they were going to take either. If Fox hadn't fallen to the ice they probably don't call anything. Though they probably should have called the cross check from Lindgren on Jarvis right beforehand, it was far more blatant than the Skjei crosscheck.

 

[NotCommitted]

I love Aho, but I think the elite comments from fans perspective of game-breaking talent. Like all you need is this player to have the puck for a couple of seconds and you may be in danger. Aho will get his points because he's a great player who works extremely hard. He's smart. He's tough to play against. He's a fantastic player you can count on.

It's also systemic on Hurricanes part. In both good and the bad. In terms of pure offense I think he'd have more to give playing in a team that wasn't so structured in all 3 zones, but whether he'd be better or worse overall player for that I have no idea. I think he's underrated though, rarely features in top10 lists for centers for example but I'm not convinced there's 10 better centers in the league. For me he's definitely in that group of 20 top10 centers I mean once you get past top5 or something it's really difficult to rate the players. That 2nd Guentzel goal last night was a beauty, absorbs a hit, hangs on to the puck, draws several Rangers to him and executes a perfect pass.

 

[T REX]

No Freddie was great last game. Made a ton of game-saving stops in the moment.

Goal 1 - He was completely screened and couldn't see Laf's shot at all. Maybe he didn't cover the net as well as possible but when you can't see the shot coming there's not a lot you can do. It was also a great shot that picked the corner

Goal 2 - This was amazing team passing play and a show of patience from the Rangers. They moved the puck up the ice beautifully and kept it away from the Canes forwards and defence allowing Laf to streak up the ice and tap in a great cross ice pass from Fox. Perfectly placed. No goalie is stopping that unless you cut down the pass

Goal 3 - He was on top of it and Aho scooped it out and put it on Kreider's stick. Literally not on him at all

Goal 4 - Crazy pinball bounce where the puck pops up in the air and there is a mad scramble in front of the net. Rebound goes to Trocheck and he slides it home amongst the chaos

Agree with you on Freddie's rebound control in that it is a bit of a weakness but in general the Canes aren't great at clearing the crease and getting those rebounds out of harms way. Like maybe he could have played goal 1 and 2 slightly better but very likely those get the same result regardless of who is in net. Game 2 not on him at all.

Sub 900 is the pickiest of pickiest as well based on there being 39 shots. Was he better than Igor? No. Igor was fantastic obviously but Freddie didn't lose them the game at all. Canes taking dumb penalties and not converting on the PP and the chances they had did.

Reality is that the Canes aren't winning a cup with Freddie in net. You can rationalize the goals but Carolina doesn't have tge team to outscore his deficiencies.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

And it was a weak call, shouldn't have been made.

Those aren't factors that should be considered. And it very clearly wasn't a breakaway considering he didn't even get the puck afterwards.

All 3 penalties were very soft calls IMO.


They should have taken both if they were going to take either. If Fox hadn't fallen to the ice they probably don't call anything. Though they probably should have called the cross check from Lindgren on Jarvis right beforehand, it was far more blatant than the Skjei crosscheck.

I mean, I agree in that I think the officiating wasn't great overall but I don't see it as impacting the outcome to the degree you do I guess. The PP chances were almost even, both teams got away with a lot and both teams had questionable calls against them. The story around the difference in the series is special teams execution more than anything else. Carolina has more power plays in the series.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Reality is that the Canes aren't winning a cup with Freddie in net. You can rationalize the goals but Carolina doesn't have tge team to outscore his deficiencies.

Very well might be true but the team has to play better around him in those situations. Like would we want him to stop some or all of those goals? Sure, but you have to be realistic and reasonable as well. If Aho doesn't scoop the puck out from under him and put it on Kreider's stick Canes probably win that game in regulation. Rather than saying Freddie should play better (which is like totally fair, you can have that take) it's probably easier and a better strategy to not do stuff like that.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I mean, I agree in that I think the officiating wasn't great overall but I don't see it as impacting the outcome to the degree you do I guess. The PP chances were almost even, both teams got away with a lot and both teams had questionable calls against them. The story around the difference in the series is special teams execution more than anything else. Carolina has more power plays in the series.

PP chances being even doesn't mean the outcome wasn't impacted. The more these games are played 5v5, the more advantage it gives to the Hurricanes. The more penalties, the more advantage to the Rangers.

 

[NotCommitted]

The way NYR PP is playing, Canes need to stay out of the box but they've taken some really stupid penalties at key moments, game one they already scored 1 with their net empty and had an 6v4 PP opportunity to tie it with a minute (or something) to go, but Svechnikov takes a penalty right off the draw. He took another penalty like that in game 2 midway through their PP, straight after a draw again. Though not so crucial situation and if I recall correctly call might have been a bit weak but still, you can't keep taking those. He was not the only one, some stupid trips where guys are just being careless with their sticks etc.

I hope Canes win both games at home to make it 2-2, this has been a really good series so far. Sadly (for Canes) it's starting to feel a bit too much like the Florida series last season.

 

[Tofveve]

It did feel like the Rangers wills were stronger thus far. Carolina has work to do.

 

[Ruggs225]

I always thought Rod was a great coach. But really am thinking he might not be.

It seems like he really struggles with adjustments and makes the Canes easier to gameplan against.

The Canes play one style and one style only. I always thought it was an advantage for the Rangers bc while we dont dictate play, we can play many types of games comfortably and adjust.

Still a long way to go. And as the saying goes, you are only in trouble once you lose on home ice. Game three is going to be mega huge.