Eastern Conference playoff picture: Leafs HOST Tampa Bay

[fahad203]

I promise myself this is the last reply you will ever get from me

"Montreal frustrated the Leafs" You have no clue what the f*** you're talking about, stop posing like a fan and stop with these ridiculous garbage takes.

Dermott unforced turn over leads to MTL gwg

Galchenyuk unforced turn over leads to a 2 on 0 in OT gwg (moments before that Matthews hit it off the post)

Sandin loses a foot race where he has like a legitimate 20ft head start, leads to the gwg

Somehow you watched those plays and thought to yourself "wow Montreal really frustrated them there and won the game"

Please stop the bullshit as if the Habs were some great team that outplayed us. That was literally as lucky as you can get, that Tavares injury and then the Leafs shooting themselves in the foot. If you actually watched that series and believe they were the better team aside from goaltending, you actually have no clue about the game of hockey at all.

Isnt having better goaltending part of the equation of being a better team?

That series to me falls more on the coach than anyone else to me. Keefe had home ice advantage but he refused to take Matthews line away from Denault who schooled him

Keefe refused to match lines. He said himself he doesnt believe in it

 

[Gary Nylund]

Isnt having better goaltending part of the equation of being a better team?

That series to me falls more on the coach than anyone else to me. Keefe had home ice advantage but he refused to take Matthews line away from Denault who schooled him

Keefe refused to match lines. He said himself he doesnt believe in it

Absolutely it is. It's amazing how many people don't get this and it's what the Dekes/Zeke crowd miss when they trot out stats showing expect this and expected that, none of which factor in goaltending and then when they lose, they say we were the better team but we just got "outgoalied" as if the goalie was somehow separate from the rest of the team.

And that's why it sucks that we have to play TB in round 1. They have the best goalie in the world and we have Campbell who is a big question mark.

 

[Aus34Matt]

..and now he goes up against b2b SC champ Cooper. Hope Keefe is up to the task.

Cooper's a clever, calculated man who will sadly school Keefe in the PO.

 

[Cleetus]

What did Tampa three consecutive losses to end the 2020/2021 season say about their competitiveness and preparedness for that playoffs?

to be fair they were cup champs the year before they kinda get a pass no?

 

[Jojalu]

They are incredibly tough, and for better or worse an extremely dirty team. Which has clearly worked for them. Did you watch the Tampa-Florida or Tampa-NY series last year? They have a mindset these Leafs clearly lack.



It doesn't matter how many points they get in the regular season when they've got a whopping 0 playoff series wins to show for it, against some pretty brutal teams.

Goalies can 100% steal a series. My issue is with how people react to it. Many Leafs fan were acting like the Habs having Price was some random act of god that robbed a superior from advancing. When in reality thats how the Habs were built, and it was in a superior way to the Leafs. Deal with it.



The reality is this core has 0 playoff success to their names, and none of these pieces that have been changed out around them look like big enough moves. The core 4 forwards are still the same, Rielly is still unfortunately the best d-man (nothing against him but he's a #2 on a real cup contender), and the goaltending is as unreliable as ever.

Potentially losing to Tampa unfortunately allows for the red carpet of excuses to roll out, when the reality is the team can't even beat Montreal or Columbus already.

Is it luck to get a stud goalie? How many would you say are in the league? 5? 6?

If you have a stud, how is anyone going to acquire him?

I think it is fair to say you think the Leafs should have tried to upgrade but who was available?

Tampa not giving up Vasi
Rangers not dealing Shesterkin
Mon not dealing Price
Jets not trading Hellybuck.

I guess they could have signed Markstrom but they had Andersen and Campbell was a good backup.

As for the draft Swayman was picked before management was in charge, they had no chance to get Knight, Tarosov was 2017 again before management.

So where is this magical stud goalie the Leafs should have acquired?

 

[ToneDog]

Absolutely it is. It's amazing how many people don't get this and it's what the Dekes/Zeke crowd miss when they trot out stats showing expect this and expected that, none of which factor in goaltending and then when they lose, they say we were the better team but we just got "outgoalied" as if the goalie was somehow separate from the rest of the team.

And that's why it sucks that we have to play TB in round 1. They have the best goalie in the world and we have Campbell who is a big question mark.

$1.65m Soup vs $10m Vasi. Ford vs Ferrari. You taking the Ford ??

 

[Morbo]

Is it luck to get a stud goalie? How many would you say are in the league? 5? 6?

If you have a stud, how is anyone going to acquire him?

I think it is fair to say you think the Leafs should have tried to upgrade but who was available?

Tampa not giving up Vasi
Rangers not dealing Shesterkin
Mon not dealing Price
Jets not trading Hellybuck.

I guess they could have signed Markstrom but they had Andersen and Campbell was a good backup.

As for the draft Swayman was picked before management was in charge, they had no chance to get Knight, Tarosov was 2017 again before management.

So where is this magical stud goalie the Leafs should have acquired?

you're right, it's been totally impossible for Dubas to do anything but collect injury prone journeyman backup goalies.

 

[ToneDog]

Is it luck to get a stud goalie? How many would you say are in the league? 5? 6?

If you have a stud, how is anyone going to acquire him?

I think it is fair to say you think the Leafs should have tried to upgrade but who was available?

Tampa not giving up Vasi
Rangers not dealing Shesterkin
Mon not dealing Price
Jets not trading Hellybuck.

I guess they could have signed Markstrom but they had Andersen and Campbell was a good backup.

As for the draft Swayman was picked before management was in charge, they had no chance to get Knight, Tarosov was 2017 again before management.

So where is this magical stud goalie the Leafs should have acquired?

Gotta draft them and odds are against you if you draft them in the rounds we draft ours.

 

[Jojalu]

you're right, it's been totally impossible for Dubas to do anything but collect injury prone journeyman backup goalies.

What? The point was being made about acquiting a stud goalie.

Show me how they could have done that. Going through FA and the draft and considering the cost of trading there was no 'Stud" to be had.

The only one that seemed possible was Markstrom.

Even MAF who really has been no better than Campbell this year was a steep cost that fans would have lost their shit if it didn't work out.

 

[Menzinger]

to be fair they were cup champs the year before they kinda get a pass no?

I think it just means these end of season games are terrible predictors on how well or poorly a team will play in the playoffs.

 

[Menzinger]

$1.65m Soup vs $10m Vasi. Ford vs Ferrari. You taking the Ford ??

Though in 2020 both of the Jackets goalies combined made less than Freddy. How much money a guy makes isn't always a good way to guess how well he's going to play in a 7 game series.

That said, obviously Vasi should be seen as the better goalie. Whether or not he plays as such will remain to be seen

 

[ToneDog]

Though in 2020 both of the Jackets goalies combined made less than Freddy. How much money a guy makes isn't always a good way to guess how well he's going to play in a 7 game series.

That said, obviously Vasi should be seen as the better goalie. Whether or not he plays as such will remain to be seen

Binnington and Niemi say you are not wrong. Gotta hope Matty pours some some sugar in the Ferrari's gas tank.

 

[zeke]

What did Tampa three consecutive losses to end the 2020/2021 season say about their competitiveness and preparedness for that playoffs?

That they were waiting for Kucherov to come back?

 

[ToneDog]

you're right, it's been totally impossible for Dubas to do anything but collect injury prone journeyman backup goalies.

Dubas looks for diamonds in the rough. Thought he found one until the new year. Some of the shine has worn off but Soup was a good pickup.

 

[Morbo]

What? The point was being made about acquiting a stud goalie.

Show me how they could have done that. Going through FA and the draft and considering the cost of trading there was no 'Stud" to be had.

The only one that seemed possible was Markstrom.

Even MAF who really has been no better than Campbell this year was a steep cost that fans would have lost their shit if it didn't work out.

Show me proof they couldn't have. You can no more do that than what you're asking of me, can you?

as for "what"...are you sure there's nothing in the considerable gap between "stud goalie" and whatever it is we've got now? nothing at all that would be better?? that is my point.

Dubas has built a good group of skaters, but goaltender is part of that team and he has made a hash of the netminding situation. And I defended him when Sparks didn't work out, because at the time he made it, it was the right call -- his own drafted and developed guy, that just won the AHL title, over a journeyman backup. It didn't pan out, but sometimes that happens even if you do things right.

The Mrazek decision on the other hand was the wrong call immediately. 3 year term too much, 3.8 too much for a non starter, and to top it off another injury prone flaky inconsistent guy like Campbell. Just a poor move all around and one that played a part in preventing a more impactful deadline because of his essentially dead money.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

If Stars/Canes Leafs show up it will be a quick series. Tampa is too old and not as deep anymore to keep up with that team for 7 games. Leafs run through all young blood 24-27 year olds. Got Mitch Marner out here throwing up 13 hits in 2 game spans now. Boosh for sure gonna kill someone game 1. Hopefully lays out Kucherov he seems a bit injury prone now. Get him hurting from the start.

Brayden Point seems to have given all he has in those back to back cup wins. Just a shadow of himself since the beginning of the Habs series. If Nylander can make Point a wash this series is in the bag. Nylander has been ahead of Point for the entire 21/22 regular season so far.

Of course there is no guarantee what version of the Leafs show up but hopefully this is the year they get over the mental block and meet their potential.

Time to start backing the boys and get positive. New slate for take 6

 

[Jojalu]

Show me proof they couldn't have. You can no more do that than what you're asking of me, can you?

as for "what"...are you sure there's nothing in the considerable gap between "stud goalie" and whatever it is we've got now? nothing at all that would be better?? that is my point.

Dubas has built a good group of skaters, but goaltender is part of that team and he has made a hash of the netminding situation. And I defended him when Sparks didn't work out, because at the time he made it, it was the right call -- his own drafted and developed guy, that just won the AHL title, over a journeyman backup. It didn't pan out, but sometimes that happens even if you do things right.

The Mrazek decision on the other hand was the wrong call immediately. 3 year term too much, 3.8 too much for a non starter, and to top it off another injury prone flaky inconsistent guy like Campbell. Just a poor move all around and one that played a part in preventing a more impactful deadline because of his essentially dead money.

Mrazek I am not thrilled with and I do agree that there could have been something in between but the premise of the conversation was that Dubas has failed to acquire a stud goalie.

My point is it is damn near impossible since there are so few.

 

[Morbo]

Mrazek I am not thrilled with and I do agree that there could have been something in between but the premise of the conversation was that Dubas has failed to acquire a stud goalie.

My point is it is damn near impossible since there are so few.

I think we could win a Cup with a good goalie. we don't need a great one with the squad and defence corps we have. with good, not even great, goaltending all year long the GA would much better reflect this team's defensive strength.

but we don't even have that much. that's the problem.

we've got a guy who's a tandem goalie somewhere in midpack of his peers, and pretty much a steep cliff behind him after that. Kallgren is trying as best he can in a tough situation but probably isn't an NHL netminder, at least not right away.

Shameful stuff when you're otherwise calling yourself a contender and have a legitimate Hart Trophy type player on the squad.

it's kind of amazing the team is threatening 115 points with goaltending this poor, honestly.

 

[Jojalu]

I think we could win a Cup with a good goalie. we don't need a great one with the squad and defence corps we have. with good, not even great, goaltending all year long the GA would much better reflect this team's defensive strength.

but we don't even have that much. that's the problem.

we've got a guy who's a tandem goalie somewhere in midpack of his peers, and pretty much a steep cliff behind him after that. Kallgren is trying as best he can in a tough situation but probably isn't an NHL netminder, at least not right away.

Shameful stuff when you're otherwise calling yourself a contender and have a legitimate Hart Trophy type player on the squad.

it's kind of amazing the team is threatening 115 points with goaltending this poor, honestly.

I think Campbell is good. Not as good as early season and not as bad as Jan through March.

I just don't see any matchup where the Leafs will have the better goalie. Unless Wash upsets Florida

 

[JKG33]

Well great teams win championships and there are usually one of those. I'd say there is area between great and shitty. Are we shitty if we lose to Tampa Bay outgoalied or not? We can be, but are we. Were we last year? In some extent yes, our big stars dropped the ball and our coaching didn't deliver either.

It's these extremities that bothers me in these discussions and I don't mean you are doing it. Shitty is an expression. We are learning to win with our young team, there will be disappointments way more than there will be celebrations.

I don't care if we win Tampa Bay. I have hated this playoffs system from the start and we don't get any benefit from our great regular season performance, but it is what it is. I don't care if it's Tampa Bay or Boston. We can take either one, if we play our A game.

It's the ultimate challenge and I think we're underdogs which should be in someway good for us. I still hope there is other scale than great and shitty which isn't determined just by winning or losing.

First off I agree 100% about the playoff format. This was all Bettman and NBC's wet dream to manufacture more rivalries by having the same teams play against each other year after year. The last two years of the Covid Cup have given us some much needed fresh playoff matchups, but what we really need is the 1v8 format back. That said, we as Leaf fans have no right to complain about a first round matchup with Tampa, as the last two playoff matchups have been vs Columbus and Montreal.

Shitty is a relative term, what I call shitty might be different to what you or someone else does. Personally I subscribe to the Talladega Nights theory of "If you ain't first, you're last." I'm all about Stanley Cup or bust, especially when this team has such strong regular seasons, expecting they follow it up with playoff success isn't unreasonable.

Now you may not agree with my cup or bust mentality, and thats fine. But what we should all be able to agree upon is the lack of progress shown by this team. No matter how good of a regular season they have, or how beatable their first round opponent is, they still find a way to shit the bed. That for me earns them the word shitty.

 

[Jojalu]

First off I agree 100% about the playoff format. This was all Bettman and NBC's wet dream to manufacture more rivalries by having the same teams play against each other year after year. The last two years of the Covid Cup have given us some much needed fresh playoff matchups, but what we really need is the 1v8 format back. That said, we as Leaf fans have no right to complain about a first round matchup with Tampa, as the last two playoff matchups have been vs Columbus and Montreal.

Shitty is a relative term, what I call shitty might be different to what you or someone else does. Personally I subscribe to the Talladega Nights theory of "If you ain't first, you're last." I'm all about Stanley Cup or bust, especially when this team has such strong regular seasons, expecting they follow it up with playoff success isn't unreasonable.

Now you may not agree with my cup or bust mentality, and thats fine. But what we should all be able to agree upon is the lack of progress shown by this team. No matter how good of a regular season they have, or how beatable their first round opponent is, they still find a way to shit the bed. That for me earns them the word shitty.

I agree with everything but they should win the cup. They have never been first in the league, in fact this is the higheat they have finished as a group. Win a round or two I can buy.

 

[JKG33]

You can't be serious with this ? Boston got absolutely destroyed by Vancouver that series, the 5 on 5 play wasn't even close. Thomas absolutely goalied them and with some help from Campbells daddy. Teams get goalied all the time. Kings were elite, that Boston team was not, but they were good.

A team getting outplayed but winning because of their goaltender is a real thing, it does not make the other team shit. Bad take. Tampa doesn't get past the Isles without Vasi, not even close.

Vasilevsky, Thomas, Cam Ward have all recently carried their teams to the cup. Price and Lundqivst have carried their teams to the finals, neither of those teams had any business making the cup final. You can even talk about Binnington/Quick.

Boston was a legit great, deep, rough team. Vancouver was extremely mentally weak, not unlike our Leafs. The Bruins were built around their stud goalie and continued to do so when they transitioned to Rask as well.

The Islanders and their trap did not outplay Tampa, thats a laughable take.

Ward played great but once again those Hurricanes were a great team that benefited from playing against a very injured Buffalo team.

Binnington played well enough to win, that SCF really was a toss-up. Quick and the Kings were going to murder everyone in 2012 regardless, you don't go 16-4 solely on the back of a goalie no matter how great he plays.

Price and Lundqvist prove my point. You can't "goalie" your way to a cup.

I promise myself this is the last reply you will ever get from me

"Montreal frustrated the Leafs" You have no clue what the f*** you're talking about, stop posing like a fan and stop with these ridiculous garbage takes.

Dermott unforced turn over leads to MTL gwg

Galchenyuk unforced turn over leads to a 2 on 0 in OT gwg (moments before that Matthews hit it off the post)

Sandin loses a foot race where he has like a legitimate 20ft head start, leads to the gwg

Somehow you watched those plays and thought to yourself "wow Montreal really frustrated them there and won the game"

Please stop the bullshit as if the Habs were some great team that outplayed us. That was literally as lucky as you can get, that Tavares injury and then the Leafs shooting themselves in the foot. If you actually watched that series and believe they were the better team aside from goaltending, you actually have no clue about the game of hockey at all.

I could be so lucky should the bolded actually happen.

The Habs outplayed the Leafs. Price is a part of that team. This team that you claim is so terrible went on to the SCF by beating the powerhouse that is Vegas, hardly the makings of a bad team.

I can almost guarantee you I've played and coached at a higher level than you ever have, so spare me the you have no clue about hockey bullshit. Admit you're a homer for this team and move on. Unlike you, I don't delude myself into thinking they're some great team.

 

[JKG33]

I agree with everything but they should win the cup. They have never been first in the league, in fact this is the higheat they have finished as a group. Win a round or two I can buy.

The cup expectations might be a bit much sure, but even some progress would be nice. And I don't mean finishing 4th as opposed to 6th or whatever in the regular season. Win a round, maybe find a way to make it to the ECF. Anything more than another 1st rd exit would be progress.

And thats just it, for a team thats supposed to be as good as the Leafs, and finishes in the top third of the league every year, you'd think they'd have managed to win a round if for no other reason than dumb luck.

 

[Brown Dog]

First off I agree 100% about the playoff format. This was all Bettman and NBC's wet dream to manufacture more rivalries by having the same teams play against each other year after year. The last two years of the Covid Cup have given us some much needed fresh playoff matchups, but what we really need is the 1v8 format back. That said, we as Leaf fans have no right to complain about a first round matchup with Tampa, as the last two playoff matchups have been vs Columbus and Montreal.

Shitty is a relative term, what I call shitty might be different to what you or someone else does. Personally I subscribe to the Talladega Nights theory of "If you ain't first, you're last." I'm all about Stanley Cup or bust, especially when this team has such strong regular seasons, expecting they follow it up with playoff success isn't unreasonable.

Now you may not agree with my cup or bust mentality, and thats fine. But what we should all be able to agree upon is the lack of progress shown by this team. No matter how good of a regular season they have, or how beatable their first round opponent is, they still find a way to shit the bed. That for me earns them the word shitty.

I agree the playoff format is stupid. However, if the season ended now and it was the old 1-8 setup, we'd be slated to play Boston instead of TB. Not much better (if at all).

Fact is, we were always going to have to beat a top team in Rd 1. Tampa will be great challenge but it's doable.

 

[JKG33]

I agree the playoff format is stupid. However, if the season ended now and it was the old 1-8 setup, we'd be slated to play Boston instead of TB. Not much better (if at all).

Fact is, we were always going to have to beat a top team in Rd 1. Tampa will be great challenge but it's doable.

I think we can all agree playing any of the Metro playoff teams would be preferable to an Atlantic opponent.

I also agree that you have to beat the best teams regardless.

However in the old format, the Leafs wouldn't be guaranteed Florida in rd 2 should both team advance. In a reseed its impossible for #3 to play #1 before the conference finals. Which is a huge advantage of the old system.