Eastern Conference playoff picture: Leafs HOST Tampa Bay
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As a goalie myself, I hate this implication that the Leafs got beat simply because of a goalie as if that absolves them from the reality that this team isn't built for the playoffs. Goalies are a part of the team just like any other player. Maybe if management wasn't so inept the team could have a stud goalie of their own.
riffle
Registered User
Curious what you believe?
A) Great goaltending stops great shooting
B) Great shooting beats great goaltending
I think both are true. Which is truer? In my view, that is outcome dependent. If you score, then great shooting beat great goaltending. If a save is made, great goaltending stopped great shooting.
The reality is, if you claim you were "goalied" ...your shooters were not good enough. There is a ton of responsibility that should be shouldered by the shooters who couldn't beat the goaltender. People who like the term, "goalied" use that to deflect from this concept of the shooters bearing any responsibility for their lack of scoring.
This came up with the idea Price "goalied" the Leafs. Yet, Nylander beat him 5 times in 7 games which is well above Nylander's GPG average by a significant margin. William Nylander had no issues beating Price and was not goalied. The Matthews acolytes can't bear to put any blame on him so ...goalied, with fingers in ears is what happens in response. Matthews with the best set up man in the league beat Price, once. Fans should levy blame on him for not getting it done. Some do. Some don't. The ones who don't can't stand the ones who do.
I guarantee if he performs vs. Tampa as he did vs. Montreal, the same people who made excuses for him will do the same things again, save for throwing in "he was injured" on top of Vasilevskiy goalieing him. You already know what's going to happen before it happens. For the record, Matthews has a tremendous track record vs. Tampa. If he fails in the playoffs, perhaps the charge that Matthews is built for regular season hockey and or chokes should be considered?
EDIT: If Jack is terrible, and Leafs lose another series, should we say we got "shootered" so it isn't considered Jack's fault because we're fans and we like him? Every playoff series the Leafs have lost must be because they got "shootered", if I'm trying to protect the goalie from bearing any responsibility.
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To me when guys wanted to hold me down I always knew they were scared when they felt my power early in da fight .. Wayner achieved what he wanted da Tampa bench saw their big guy did not want to fight .. in playoffs he won't let Maroon off da hook
Montreal frustrated the Leafs, from the goaltending to the grinding style the team was built to play.
The additions are all fine and well, until you realize they're playing against Tampa. Those guys went toe to toe with the Panthers and Islanders (and Habs) in the playoffs last year, and still came out ahead. Even their skill guys are some nasty MFers, which is more than I can say for the Leafs.
I’m
You seem to be railing hard against this goalied thing like people say it’s the only reason the team has lost. Im not sure anyone here has made that claim.
As for your diatribe about Matthews. It’s not excuses to rightfully mention his wrist injury. It was clear to anyone watching his shot wasn’t right. Hell he was barely even shooting which is entirely out of character and it’s not that he didn’t have the looks
You seem to be railing hard against this goalied thing like people say it’s the only reason the team has lost. Im not sure anyone here has made that claim.
As for your diatribe about Matthews. It’s not excuses to rightfully mention his wrist injury. It was clear to anyone watching his shot wasn’t right. Hell he was barely even shooting which is entirely out of character and it’s not that he didn’t have the looks
And with the way the league is officiating things - I don't doubt for one second that Maroon is aware of it and he will abuse it to no end.
Tampa is not that tough. They’re tough, but you are building them up way too much imo
mapleleafs34
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2011
- 1,129
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I doubt Kase is ready. Therefore, I like your Line 1 & 3. Who gets the spot on Line 2 though? Would have to be Blackwell no?
The claim that the management of a 111 point team is inept is laughable at best.
You don’t believe that a goalie can steal a series? There are countless examples to say otherwise.
Imo most people aren’t using it to absolve the team of any fault. Just recognizing that the play of the opposition goalie has in some cases been among the largest contributing factors which I don’t think is unfair
Could you imagine trying to tell a certain section of our fanbase that actually, I think we're only as good as Columbus, throughout that season? Haha.
The same section that is adamant our D is better than Carolina's. They'd never let you hear the end of it.
Tufted Titmouse
13 Cups.
- Apr 5, 2022
- 6,222
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I've agreed with a lot of your takes, but I think I'm hitting my limit. Matthews and Marner look like completely different players this year, and I like our depth way more this year than I did last year.
What happened last year feels pretty inconsequential outside of shared Leaf fan trauma. Losing your captain and 3rd best player (at the time) 10 mins in is also quite unlucky.
I think this years team has a much better chance of going deep on merit than last years. They just happen have a much, much more difficult path - likely the hardest path of any team in the NHL.
If we come out skating and we hound the puck like we were for most of the season, I really think we can negate the physicality gap.
He really shouldn't play. Dubas needs to stop him from playing
If he gets another concussion, then I'll personally blame the team
At some point the team has to interject. If Kase wants to continue his career, great, he can do that with another team
I dont' care if the medical team has cleared him.
riffle
Registered User
I am railing hard vs. the term, "goalied". Thanks for noticing. It is lazy.
The heart of my post was ignored. Which beats which? Isn't that dependent on outcome? If a save is made on a great shot, the goaltending was better. If a great shot beats great goaltending, then the shot was better.
To me, the answers here to these questions are obvious as well as the takeaway. Exclaiming "goalied" is incredibly lazy and invalid fan excuse-making 101. I find irony in those fans who claim this happened vs. Korpisalo and Price. You may as well resign yourselves to saying "we're getting goalied" before this one ever starts. We all know if the Leafs lose, it will not be the Leafs fault. It will be due to the greatness of Vasilevskiy...same as it was with Rask, Korpisalo and Price. I sense a pattern here but I'm probably wrong and it was just being "goalied" 4 times in a row.
leafsfan5
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2014
- 15,221
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I tend to agree, someone needs to have the conversation with him. He has 10 million in earnings based on cap friendly, so he's already made a decent amount. At this point it should be about protecting quality of life
But, if we do play him I throw him on the second line
Like you start with, it's not all or nothing and I also classify the series vs. Mon and CBJ differently from a goaltending perspective, though both had good performances
Verse Montreal, I think Price was great once they were facing elimination and there were times he made difficult saves look easy. There is some luck with posts and shots going in being deflected, etc..
Verse Columbus, I think Korpi was good but it was lower event series with fewer chances either way. The big miss in this series was pissing away Game 4 for me
There are 8 teams in the east with 100+ points. A lot of teams had banner year
We were 6th in the league last year and 4th in the league this year. We know how last year ended to a garbage team
Are we really that much better this year?
Sure Campbell go on a hot streak. I hope for everyone's sake that he does
Otherwise, going against Vasi who has proven to be super clutch not going to be fun
leafsfan5
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2014
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It would have to be Blackwell in that case, yes. I think he could do well in a middle 6 role. He worked with Panarin in NYR
They are incredibly tough, and for better or worse an extremely dirty team. Which has clearly worked for them. Did you watch the Tampa-Florida or Tampa-NY series last year? They have a mindset these Leafs clearly lack.
It doesn't matter how many points they get in the regular season when they've got a whopping 0 playoff series wins to show for it, against some pretty brutal teams.
Goalies can 100% steal a series. My issue is with how people react to it. Many Leafs fan were acting like the Habs having Price was some random act of god that robbed a superior from advancing. When in reality thats how the Habs were built, and it was in a superior way to the Leafs. Deal with it.
The reality is this core has 0 playoff success to their names, and none of these pieces that have been changed out around them look like big enough moves. The core 4 forwards are still the same, Rielly is still unfortunately the best d-man (nothing against him but he's a #2 on a real cup contender), and the goaltending is as unreliable as ever.
Potentially losing to Tampa unfortunately allows for the red carpet of excuses to roll out, when the reality is the team can't even beat Montreal or Columbus already.
Well, I’m not going to answer for the thoughts or claims of other fans, but I don’t think it’s incorrect to say the concept of being goalied is a real thing. That doesn’t mean I specifically think that’s what happened with us the last 2 years either though. I do however think Carey Price was the single largest factor (on montreals side) that lead to the Leafs losing that series. I also recognize that Vasi has all the ability to steal a series on his own. So can it happen? Yeah. I don’t expect the Leafs to go down without a hell of a fight this year though.
As for it being a lazy argument. Yeah, it is. I said as much earlier. Disregarding the ability of or ignoring the occurrence of a goalie to steal a series however is equally lazy.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,109
- 62,027
Granted, the Leafs were big underachievers in 2019-2020 even before the bubble and probably the least likeable version of the Dubas era in general but look at their preseason odds to win the cup. @Gallagbi is not remembering correctly when he suggests that the Leafs and Blue Jackets were even teams that year.
2019-20 NHL Preseason Odds | Hockey-Reference.com
Check out the Preseason Odds to win the Stanley Cup, and over-unders for the 2019-20 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com
www.hockey-reference.com
Not even sure why anyone would spent much time defending that version of the team when they retooled it so thoroughly in the years since. The only point to be taken is to prepare for the opposition more than we traditionally have.
The Leafs beat themselves. The Canadiens, quite frankly, had very little to do with it.
Just looking at the standings and results of the series.Granted, the Leafs were big underachievers in 2019-2020 even before the bubble and probably the least likeable version of the Dubas era in general but look at their preseason odds to win the cup. @Gallagbi is not remembering correctly when he suggests that the Leafs and Blue Jackets were even teams that year.
2019-20 NHL Preseason Odds | Hockey-Reference.com
Check out the Preseason Odds to win the Stanley Cup, and over-unders for the 2019-20 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com
But tell me more about them playing pretend in the visitors room instead of actually preparing. Or are we going to ignore this because you know it's bullshit?
and just like last year, this team is yet again somehow "different" and "better" if you ask most of the people here.
I mean I don't entirely disagree but thats an incredibly lazy take and is wrongly discrediting a team that went to the SCF. If they got swept in RD2 you may have a point.
The Habs were a beatable opponent for a team that is as good as Leafs fan claim their team to be, but the reality is Montreal still won that series by being the superior team
