Early Season Thoughts

[Schmooley]

I dont post here often but do check in and see whats cookin. Anyways...really concerning start to the season. I dont even care about the losses but I feel the team just looks really bad. Not much reason to watch. And I say that as someone that has not missed a game in more than a decade. For years Id read some posters on here (i think kings17 is one) that talked about trading everyone and thought how dumb that would be. After the last 2 years and how things look right now Id have to agree with blowing this team up. Signing Drew Doughty was a mistake. I know everyone thinks he dominates and I used to think he was the best but hes on some sideshow trip and not focused on making good plays. To be honest I havent liked his game since Voynov left and he started getting big minutes. He now picks his spots here and there whereas he used to be a force every shift. You do not need a player eating those kind of minutes to win games especially when you look at what the caps and pens d looked like.
Is Carter playing injured? His lack of intensity is sad.
Thompson and Clifford are liabilities on the ice. Clifford doesnt even hit anymore. Im glad the Kings think you can play in the NHL even if you cant give a pass or take a pass cause now any sorry *** can make the big show. Etem looked much better than these guys in preseason.
Lewis should be the 12th best forward on the team.
Pearson looks more like a 3rd or 4th liner.
Toffoli has been off since he took a heavy hit to the head what seems like a while ago now.
First line with Kopitar, Kovalchuck, and Iaffalo looks good and I appreciate their effort.
Young guys look ok but I havent seen enough of them to be critical of their play...
Though he hasnt been putting up the points, I think Kempe should be the only player not available for trade should other teams call. Hes fun to watch and gives good effort. His play on the defensive side of things looks better this year and I hope he can come up with a little more offensive touch.
Forbort is not great but not too bad. His first pass out of the zone is a problem some nights but not all nights and maybe as he gets older hell be more reliable. Scuderi used to absorb contact while hed dish out a first pass and I think Forbort can make that play.
Muzzin ive never liked. Sutter gave him a unusually long leash in his early years and he was awful but still got playing time. I wish theyd give Ladue that same leash as he actually shows signs of a good player. I know a lot of you on here arent fond of Ladue but I think he has some scoring touch and has good vision. He is not afraid to make a play. Like last year he scored in the playoffs and then sat the next game. Last game vs ottawa Thompson was responsible for a goal against and got promoted to play 3rd line. It doesnt make sense to me. Ladue needs to put on some mass and hell be better in the dzone.
A third pair of Phaneuf and Martinez is cool with me. If either are worth a scoring winger youd have to listen to the offer. Fantenberg is an ok 7th dman.
Without Quick the Kings are gonna have troubles, so hopefully he comes back along with Brown and things look better. I like both Quick and Brown. Even when they play bad you do not question their desire to win a game. Im not sure I can say that about this whole team and I may have to stop watching for a bit. Because if they dont care then I dont either. I dont think im a coach or gm or want to come off as a cool guy for roasting these guys i dont even know. Its just frustrating to have invested time and money into this thing thats clearly headed in the wrong direction. I dont have the answers on how to make the team better but maybe Blake should strongly consider moving carter and doughty if the offer made the team better next year and after.

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[lumbergh]

Nice take. Raccoon Jesus said it best, that this team has no identity. There's not enough speed, skill, or creativity to make the games fun to watch. If you're not going to compete based on those characteristics, then you better bring some physical intimidation and nastiness. The Kings don't have that anymore either. They wanna play fast, but can't get out of their own way. It's unwatchable right now.

I don't mind the losing, it's the way they're losing. Early goal(s) against, then trying desperately to put the puck towards the net without any real pressure. Eventual breakdowns in the defensive zone leaves you wondering if they have any idea what they're doing out there. Special teams are a mess. I'd rather see them lose 7-4 than 4-1. Right now 3 goals in a game seem almost impossible.

The lone bright spot is the first line. 6 goals in 6 games for Iafallo-Kopitar-Kovalchuk. The rest of the forwards have 5 goals total. Not gonna win that way.

They're heading home for a few games, so maybe they right the ship at home, but that's doubtful.

The Kings don't look like they care right now. I'd like to see a bit of a shake-up just to remind the veterans their jobs aren't secure. Bring up Rempal, who's been killing it in Ontario, and MacDermid, and send down Fantenberg. Sit Phaneuf or Martinez and play MacDermid. Sit Thompson or Pearson and play Rempal and JAD. At least the kids play like they want to be there.

I'd just like to see something new and exciting. This team has sucked the life and fun out of hockey for me the past couple of games.

 

[Schmooley]

I agree on the identity issue. They play really soft. Used to be the heaviest team to play against and other teams would have to adjust to their game. Now their adjusting to other teams and thats a sign they are no longer the team to beat.
They show flashes of a good forecheck and results come from it. But they need to sustain it.
It will be interesting to see what happens going forward. Its early in the season and they can string together some wins if they can get things going.

 

[Fat Elvis]

Good thoughts.
I think right now we can all agree that Brown isn't the missing piece to fix this team. It's been tough to watch. TT and Pearson are just extra guys at this point, neither creates chances on their own and having a decent centerman hasn't helped them either. They look lazy along with 5 defensemen each night. When Forbort looks like your steadiest dman, it's gonna be a long evening.
The young forwards are giving an honest effort each game, which is a positive. Unfortunately, most of these guys don't play with any urgency until they're 3 goals down.
I agree it's pretty much unwatchable

 

[KingsHockey24]

The Good:
Alex Iafallo (He looks like the only one playing with energy besides a few others.)
Ilya Kovalchuk (He's produced and actually cuts to the middle and does things to create scoring chances.)

The Bad:
Jeff Carter (Does not look like Jeff Carter out there.)
Derek Forbort (I never really disliked the guy but man has he been bad.)
Trevor Lewis (If it wasn't for his goal the other night he's been one of if not the worst player on the team.)
Adrian Kempe (Takes a lot of dumb penalties, continues to not produce, 1 goal in 37 games.)
Michael Amadio (Hasn't done anything.)
Tanner Pearson (Probably the most invisible player so far.)
Nate Thompson (Sure he has one of the better face-off % but he also has the worst +/- on the team.)
Alec Martinez/Jake Muzzin (What do I need to say.)

The Average:
Anze Kopitar (He's been okay, hasn't really produced but he is one of the best two way players in the game still.)
Tyler Toffoli (Tied for 2nd on the team in scoring but has anyone really noticed him?)
Kyle Clifford (Leads the team in hits which is what he gets paid to do but he really needs to start running goalies.)
Dion Phaneuf (He hasn't produced at all but I believe he hasn't been horrible either.)
Jack Campbell (Played well for a bit, now he's kinda falling back to earth.)

 

[Butch 19]

paragraphs work!

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Kings need to rebuild and collect draft picks at the deadline.

 

[johnjm22]

I'm starting to wonder if Doughty is really that good. He's very sloppy out there.

Blind passes to no one, botched clearing attempts, losing his stick, can't hold the puck in the zone, whiffing on shots/passes.

 

[Herby]

I'm starting to wonder if Doughty is really that good. He's very sloppy out there.

Blind passes to no one, botched clearing attempts, losing his stick, can't hold the puck in the zone, whiffing on shots/passes.

Doughty is that good.

I know people in the around the league thread love to point out when a certain defenseman makes a mistake, but Doughty is no different, guys who play that much in key situations are not going to be perfect. And Doughty certainly isn't perfect but he's still at worst a top 3 defenseman in the league in his prime, we have way bigger worries.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

As others have stated, a lack of identity and poor coaching are the biggest "macro" problems with the team at the moment. They're caught somewhere between a freewheeling, irresponsible rush attack and Terry Murray era "play not to lose" monotony.

On a micro level:

- Pearson and Toffoli have regressed into total disappointments
- Carter is showing some major age-related regression
- Doughty is coming off his big contract, and is due for a downer year
- Quick will continue to struggle with injuries
- Brown is depth top six tweener, at best

We're clearly locked into certain players with these massive contracts and NMCs. In an ideal world, we dismantle most of the team this year and go full tank/youth movement. Players that could and should be moved over the course of this season:

Toffoli
Pearson
Carter
Quick
Muzzin
Martinez

So many of these players have become complacent and entrenched with the team. If you're hellbent on keeping your big name, big contract players, so be it. But you clearly need to re-roll your depth. That 70s Line is as dead as its namesake show. It's time to move on from these players.

And for the love of god, fire Stevens.

 

[johnjm22]

The way he's playing now he's not top 3.

He's not playing anywhere near as good as we've seen him play before. He needs to clean up his game.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Doughty is amazing. He is the least of this team's problems. The biggest issues this team has are (1) no identity/style; and (2) bad secondary scorers. Blake needs to make a serious push for a player of Nylander or Panarin's caliber, and unload borderline top 6 players like Pearson, Toffoli etc.

Even if we can't get such high end forwards, I still think we should trade Pearson and Toffoli for prospects/picks. There is a log jam in our roster, and I would rather have players like Wagner, JAD, (maybe Vilardi someday), Kempe, Amadio, etc. get more playing time. Other than Kempe and Vilard, I don't think our young players have the skill set of Toffoli or even Pearson, but this team needs new energy in the lineup, and get rid of coasters. 2014 is ancient history. Blake needs to build a completely new team, but keep our elite players in the process (Kopitar, Doughty)

I don't have much concerns on defense. I think players like Forbort and others will get things together. This team is lacking high end offensive players to play on the second line.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Seems a better place to leave this here,

I am how did you put it, "since I usually feel that you believe--at a minimum--everything is fine and--more often than not--things are better than they are." Because I don't go bi-polar over one performance, one game, one mistake etc, you have some guys in here banging there head against the wall because the Kings aren't gonna go 82-0 while scoring 500 goals and allowing none.

Obviously that's hyperbole, but are things better than the people on this board portray them as, absolutely, are they as better as let's say the Leafs problems, of course not, back from the off-season, I've said it, actually agreed with Herby for once, the roster is flawed, but in a hard cap league, the fix, isn't as easy as PLAY THE KIDS, or PLAY THE VETS, or FIRE THE COACH or TRADE EVERYONE,

I can guarantee you the powers that be, are taking stock of the way guys like Amadio, JAD, Pearson, Toffoli, Fantenberg, Cambpell are playing, but not only that, how they are off the ice, how they are in the locker room and they are going down their list and going, we want to keep him, him, him, not sure on him, let's keep watching etc.

Rome wasn't built in a day, the one thing that we can not let happen, is to let the base, the development core that Lombardi put in, go back to pre-Lombardi era, that would be the ultimate disaster.

I would love to see a huge trade, Pearson, Toffoli, Carter, and Muzzin for Draistiel and Nurse...yay!! change, but that ain't gonna happen. Like I mentioned before, you have guys like Wagner, JAD, Amadio that you really have to be careful with, they are all different and handle stress and losing differently and the worse thing you can do is just keep putting them out there if they can't handle it mentally, now I don't know if that's the case, but that's a concern you have to have. The Kings are notorious for not being able to develop players, that's slowly starting to change, developed Quick, Muzzin, Martinez, Toffoli, Pearson, Kempe etc, but they don't have a huge history of it like say, Detroit etc.

For example, tonight's game, fun to watch, they played well at times, and at times, you just went, WTF was that, but that's the game itself and every team has that, should Dallas blow everything up, trade Benn, Seguin etc, because Ottawa just beat them 4-1? Naw....probably not,

Everyone just needs to settle the hell down and realize that we are in this place because of the Cups we won, and the idea of trying to keep it together, it's not like we are St. Louis or San Jose and are in the position that never was.

The seasons, or the game, is cyclical, especially in a hard cap, you won't really ever have a dominant team stay dominant like Detroit, Colorado, etc of the mid-90s

As far as what some are saying about Rob Blake and Luc etc, they have both been around LA long enough, to know that it's results oriented, you say they want to keep selling tickets, right? When is the last time LA supported a losing team, hell they had 2 football teams leave and then eventually return, etc, so they know the results have to be there unless they have a Gretzky like player and can do what McNall did, they don't, and they can't, and you have to think they realize this.

They have also been around the game long enough to realize that you don't judge players on one bad stretch, or one good stretch. I'm not saying they are right, or even good at their jobs, it's what i said before, they have MORE information to make a a more informed judgement than, anyone on the outside etc.

I just think everyone around here reacts way to quickly when things go wrong, and have the patience of a gnat.

 

[mrkolice]

what is identity?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is not a very fun team to watch and has sucked the enjoyment of watching hockey. They are indeed back to being a team with no identity and these slackers have gotten too comfortable with their cushy roles.

Blake better step in at some point and put an end to the country club atmosphere, because a good majority of players in the lineup are not living up to their lofty contracts.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I just think everyone around here reacts way to quickly when things go wrong, and have the patience of a gnat.

Maybe you have the memory of a gnat, but do you need to be reminded of how many playoff games they’ve won, how many post seasons they have missed, and how many times the offense or PP has finished in the bottom half of the league?

You have to be quite the sycophant to think that fans are only reacting like this solely over the start to this season. The frustrations with the team has been growing. But you have your head buried so far in the sand that you are too obtuse to realize this.

And this is coming from someone who had a more positive outlook heading into this season. But the eyeballs and numbers don’t lie. This team is underachieving and has been for close to five years.

 

[Herby]

I must have missed the Stanley Cups that the Lucic and Sekera trades brought, the Stanley Cups that the Gaborik extension brought, the Stanley Cups that bringing back Greene and Richards brought. The last significant assets the Kings gave up that lead to winning SC's was Jack Johnson and the 2013 1st that were traded for Carter. (and no Matt Frattin wasn't a significant asset 2 years later)

 

[Steve Zissou]

I know most don't regard pre-season as holding ANY resemblance into regular season form, but boy, I don't think this team has had the training wheels come off just yet.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Maybe you have the memory of a gnat, but do you need to be reminded of how many playoff games they’ve won, how many post seasons they have missed, and how many times the offense or PP has finished in the bottom half of the league?

You have to be quite the sycophant to think that fans are only reacting like this solely over the start to this season. The frustrations with the team has been growing. But you have your head buried so far in the sand that you are too obtuse to realize this.

And this is coming from someone who had a more positive outlook heading into this season. But the eyeballs and numbers don’t lie. This team is underachieving and has been for close to five years.

I do have the memory of a gnat, to be honest, but that's not really relevant...

Frustration with this team has been growing, because fans are impatient as hell, hell society as a whole is impatient as hell,

Kopitar had a career year last year, Quick had a fantastic year last year, as did Doughty, Kempe had a solid rookie year, yea, things didn't go as planned they rarely do, but more than half of you are ready to trade the entire team with no plan for that, start over is what you say, so you guys want to go back to the 70s and 80s, were they were just training fodder, or 2001 where there was nothing but a black hole.

You would think that the run from 2012 - 2014 would teach fans patience is a virtue, and while yea, this roster is flawed....every roster is flawed to some degree...

 

[habdj]

Why does every team that loses to the leafs think their players are all garbage and they need a complete rebuild. The leafs are a great up and coming team. No shame in losing to them

 

[mrkolice]

i mean really, what is identity? so many of you are using this word all the time, do you at least know what it means? in hockey terms?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We are coming up on half a decade since we last saw the Kings win a playoff round. The past is the past and what they did then is an achievement none of us will ever forget.

The team had terrific individual performances last season where we saw top players perform like top players. Unfortunately, they also had little support and depth, problems that have plagued the team for years and still do today. And that can be attributed to the poor drafting from the previous GM and is a work in progress that Blake is addressing.

Looking at the current state of the franchise, the window to win is shrinking. That has fans concerned. That is why I understand where some fans are coming from when they want to accelerate a rebuild, or restructuring. This team doesn’t have one or two flaws, they have a number of problems holding the team back.

And if you are watching the games, you’ll also notice how little chemistry there is throughout the lineup. Hardly any line or pairing looks like a cohesive unit. They look like a team in shambles.

 

[mrkolice]

just a few thoughts about identitiy.

on a physical personal level it means recognizing your own face in the mirror: look, that's me. that's i. i-dentity.

psychologically it goes many steps beyond, as one does not need a mirror anymore, and can answer without looking, who he or she is.

team identity is even trickier. you have a bunch of big egos, who spend a lot of time looking in the mirror anyway, but to build team chemistry they must be able to see the same shit in the same mirror but with different eyes.

now that's magic, that's holy grail of coaching.

in the old days when the grass was green it was simple: lak identity was big & possession. then they won two cups, then evolution happened, other teams started to read their book, and so on.

it is a serios question: what is identity in nhl today?

what kind of identity can la kings build under such circumstances, with such roster?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Seems a better place to leave this here,

I am how did you put it, "since I usually feel that you believe--at a minimum--everything is fine and--more often than not--things are better than they are." Because I don't go bi-polar over one performance, one game, one mistake etc, you have some guys in here banging there head against the wall because the Kings aren't gonna go 82-0 while scoring 500 goals and allowing none.

Obviously that's hyperbole, but are things better than the people on this board portray them as, absolutely, are they as better as let's say the Leafs problems, of course not, back from the off-season, I've said it, actually agreed with Herby for once, the roster is flawed, but in a hard cap league, the fix, isn't as easy as PLAY THE KIDS, or PLAY THE VETS, or FIRE THE COACH or TRADE EVERYONE,

I can guarantee you the powers that be, are taking stock of the way guys like Amadio, JAD, Pearson, Toffoli, Fantenberg, Cambpell are playing, but not only that, how they are off the ice, how they are in the locker room and they are going down their list and going, we want to keep him, him, him, not sure on him, let's keep watching etc.

Rome wasn't built in a day, the one thing that we can not let happen, is to let the base, the development core that Lombardi put in, go back to pre-Lombardi era, that would be the ultimate disaster.

I would love to see a huge trade, Pearson, Toffoli, Carter, and Muzzin for Draistiel and Nurse...yay!! change, but that ain't gonna happen. Like I mentioned before, you have guys like Wagner, JAD, Amadio that you really have to be careful with, they are all different and handle stress and losing differently and the worse thing you can do is just keep putting them out there if they can't handle it mentally, now I don't know if that's the case, but that's a concern you have to have. The Kings are notorious for not being able to develop players, that's slowly starting to change, developed Quick, Muzzin, Martinez, Toffoli, Pearson, Kempe etc, but they don't have a huge history of it like say, Detroit etc.

For example, tonight's game, fun to watch, they played well at times, and at times, you just went, WTF was that, but that's the game itself and every team has that, should Dallas blow everything up, trade Benn, Seguin etc, because Ottawa just beat them 4-1? Naw....probably not,

Everyone just needs to settle the hell down and realize that we are in this place because of the Cups we won, and the idea of trying to keep it together, it's not like we are St. Louis or San Jose and are in the position that never was.

The seasons, or the game, is cyclical, especially in a hard cap, you won't really ever have a dominant team stay dominant like Detroit, Colorado, etc of the mid-90s

As far as what some are saying about Rob Blake and Luc etc, they have both been around LA long enough, to know that it's results oriented, you say they want to keep selling tickets, right? When is the last time LA supported a losing team, hell they had 2 football teams leave and then eventually return, etc, so they know the results have to be there unless they have a Gretzky like player and can do what McNall did, they don't, and they can't, and you have to think they realize this.

They have also been around the game long enough to realize that you don't judge players on one bad stretch, or one good stretch. I'm not saying they are right, or even good at their jobs, it's what i said before, they have MORE information to make a a more informed judgement than, anyone on the outside etc.

I just think everyone around here reacts way to quickly when things go wrong, and have the patience of a gnat.

As I responded previously, it's about more than just the beginning of this season. But if I'm to step back and be a little more optimistic for balance, Rosen had a good take:

"Well, there are several forces in play here. There’s one in which the LA Kings have opened the year 0-for-21 on the power play, a surprising 12-for-17 on the penalty kill and sport a minus-four goal differential with a possession rate in the red. There’s another in which 11 days of the season have elapsed, Ottawa and Vancouver currently occupy playoff spots, and there’s the widely held understanding that you should take what you see in early and mid-October with a healthy dose of skepticism. Lots of times teams will get these types of things sorted out. And sometimes they don’t. To this point, the eye test does not pan out. Several familiar staples of team success – suppressing shots, relying on terrific penalty killing and out-possessing their opponents – aren’t there right now, leading to questions about identity. Will that be sorted out? Perhaps; they’ve had suspect starts before. Sometimes they’ve made the playoffs, and sometimes they haven’t. There’s nothing consistently positive from the recent data. It depicts a team that scored one goal in three of four games on the road trip and, though it benefited from moments of strong five-on-five play on Monday, doesn’t have much margin for error if it wants to beat teams like the Maple Leafs."

I don't expect them to be this bad forever, I guess. I'm hoping last night was rock bottom (again, though, I didn't watch), but I thought the other game was rock bottom--it just keeps getting worse. Though nowhere to go but up? My issue is the stuff that was working before--defense, PK--was about the only thing contributing to any sort of identity. Now? That stuff is gone too. Now you have Derek f***ing Forbort making drop passes at the blueline. You have Drew Doughty with no confidence in what to do. You have the coach putting Ilya Kovalchuk in front of the net.

There's a hell of a cleanup job to do no matter how positive anyone wants to be.

Why does every team that loses to the leafs think their players are all garbage and they need a complete rebuild. The leafs are a great up and coming team. No shame in losing to them

It's not about the Maple Leafs.

 

[lexlavender]

Despite the fact that a rebuild is now long overdo, I still can't help feel a new coaching staff could work wonders. The team seems to tune people out when they stick around for too long; maybe a brand new coach would energize the team and help them relearn hockey?

I'm just not sure at this point. But a rebuild ain't happening, so the next best thing is new coaching staff/large hockey trades.