Dustin Wolf, Juuse Saros, and Being Small in Net

[Kielbasa]

Kevin Woodley wrote a really interesting article on Wolf and how his game has developed, I suggest you give it a read here:

Unmasked: Wolf of Flames impressing as undersized goalie | NHL.com

Rookie performing well despite atypical positioning, depth in crease

www.nhl.com

What really caught my eye was the quote that Saros gave on Wolf, who he has been following since the 2018 Ivan Hlinka Gretzky Cup apperently.

"Obviously there's not many of us," said Saros, who at 5-foot-11 is the smallest goalie in the NHL this season. "But I don't really pay much attention to the size. I pay attention to how goalies play. There's a lot of saves you notice how he controls his body and how fast he changes direction, so all those little things as a goalie you really appreciate when you see that. His technical, his skating and all those little details are, I feel, better than anybody in the League, so that's what I feel all goalies can look up too."

That's some pretty darn high praise from a guy most people see as an annual Vezina candidate.

Click to read more...

 

[Norwegianoiler]

Why "smol"?

 

[Kielbasa]

Why "smol"?

Oh lol, that would be an autocorrect that my phone has learnt from other stuff, woops.

Any comment on the post beyond the title?

Edit: fixed

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I do wonder if they benefit from being a different matchup than most goalies. Teams prepare for 6'4" goalies, not 5'11" goalies

 

[DJJones]

He's clearly way faster than most goalies, especially laterally.

So much offense is based on cross ice passes in order to beat the giant goalies he seems to have an advantage there.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Hockey IQ doesn't get talked about much when it comes to goalies but these two have it in spades. Process and anticipate extremely well.

 

[Sheppy]

It's kind of crazy how that position changed so much. In the 80's it seemed like 5'10 was a big goalie, haha.

1984 Wins Leaders (Top 10):

Lindbergh - 5'9, 165
Hayward - 5'10, 180
Brennerman - 5'11, 185
Riggin - 5'9, 170
Lemelin - 5'11, 170
Barrasso - 6'3, 210 (Absolute giant)
Penney - 6'1, 190
Millen - 5'9, 175
Fuhr - 5'10, 200
Janecyk - 6'1, 180
Wamsley - 5'11, 185

Outside the top 10 in wins:

Moog - 5'8, 175
Stefan - 5'11 180
Hrudey - 5'10 185
Smith - 5'10, 185
Gosseln - 5'8, 160
Brodeur - 5'7 160
Keans - 5'7 185
Resch - 5'9 165
Vanbiesbrouck - 5'8 180

 

[JPeeper]

The link to the article is broken for me (404).

Wolf rules and will win a Vezna one day..

 

[WayTooCold]

That's what she said ...

 

[SUX2BU]

The link to the article is broken for me (404).

Wolf rules and will win a Vezna one day..

Is a Vezna for small goalies?

 

[Chips]

When teams were clogging up and creating a new dead puck era, larger goalies were covete. No disrespect to bishop who was legit great but I remember thinking the dude barely had to move 90% of the time.


No, there is way more movement, space and lateral passing. Defensemen are looking to transition an any moment.

I think smaller explosive / athletic goalies will make a comeback

 

[StreetHawk]

I do wonder if they benefit from being a different matchup than most goalies. Teams prepare for 6'4" goalies, not 5'11" goalies

Shorter goalie needs to be on top of their technique. Less margin for error vs 6’4 guys where the puck would hit them if they are off on their technique as they take up more room in the net.

 

[1989]

The best goalies of the last 30 years have been between 6'0" - 6'3", and Wolf is listed at 6'0".

As I said in the other Wolf thread, there have been more great goalies in that size range than good goalies beyond 6'4".

 

[Bank Shot]

The best goalies of the last 30 years have been between 6'0" - 6'3", and Wolf is listed at 6'0".

As I said in the other Wolf thread, there have been more great goalies in that size range than good goalies beyond 6'4".

Yeah. There aren't many giants dominating.

The biggest difference is that the 6'6" goalie has to prove he CAN'T play where it's the other way around for sub 6ers.

 

[Stive Morgan]

IQ and speed/reflex far surpasses size when it comes to goaltending in my opinion

It's not like he's 5'7

 

[Cloned]

Oh lol, that would be an autocorrect that my phone has learnt from other stuff, woops.

Any comment on the post beyond the title?

Edit: fixed

“Other stuff”

 

[Grifter3511]

It's kind of crazy how that position changed so much. In the 80's it seemed like 5'10 was a big goalie, haha.

1984 Wins Leaders (Top 10):

Lindbergh - 5'9, 165
Hayward - 5'10, 180
Brennerman - 5'11, 185
Riggin - 5'9, 170
Lemelin - 5'11, 170
Barrasso - 6'3, 210 (Absolute giant)
Penney - 6'1, 190
Millen - 5'9, 175
Fuhr - 5'10, 200
Janecyk - 6'1, 180
Wamsley - 5'11, 185

Outside the top 10 in wins:

Moog - 5'8, 175
Stefan - 5'11 180
Hrudey - 5'10 185
Smith - 5'10, 185
Gosseln - 5'8, 160
Brodeur - 5'7 160
Keans - 5'7 185
Resch - 5'9 165
Vanbiesbrouck - 5'8 180

Everyone knows the 'story.' Shittiest player gets put in net. Hence goalies being runts. Some credit Roy, some credit the evolution of the equipment (and the helmet), but somewhere along the way it became cool (or at least not a punishment) to play goalie and suddenly you had actual athletes growing up playing goalie and the goalies got bigger and better.

 

[Gjman2019]

Wolf and Saros are very talented but i wouldn't either one of them on my team...........NHL shooters are just too good to give them that extra dylight to shoot at......Saros has never won a playoff series.........

Logan Thompson is 6ft4 , 201lbs , and was on fire against Dallas and still got chased from the series......NHL shooters are just scary good.

When teams were clogging up and creating a new dead puck era, larger goalies were covete. No disrespect to bishop who was legit great but I remember thinking the dude barely had to move 90% of the time.


No, there is way more movement, space and lateral passing. Defensemen are looking to transition an any moment.

I think smaller explosive / athletic goalies will make a comeback

No...

NHL shooters would expose them.........

 

[Skeletorrr]

It's kind of crazy how that position changed so much. In the 80's it seemed like 5'10 was a big goalie, haha.

1984 Wins Leaders (Top 10):

Lindbergh - 5'9, 165
Hayward - 5'10, 180
Brennerman - 5'11, 185
Riggin - 5'9, 170
Lemelin - 5'11, 170
Barrasso - 6'3, 210 (Absolute giant)
Penney - 6'1, 190
Millen - 5'9, 175
Fuhr - 5'10, 200
Janecyk - 6'1, 180
Wamsley - 5'11, 185

Outside the top 10 in wins:

Moog - 5'8, 175
Stefan - 5'11 180
Hrudey - 5'10 185
Smith - 5'10, 185
Gosseln - 5'8, 160
Brodeur - 5'7 160
Keans - 5'7 185
Resch - 5'9 165
Vanbiesbrouck - 5'8 180

The first really big goalie that impressed me was Roman Turek in the early 90's when he played for Czechia. The guy (6'4) looked HUGE compared to other goalies and was like a brick wall on most nights. To me it just looked "wrong" to have that big of a guy playing in the net.

 

[Kielbasa]

The first really big goalie that impressed me was Roman Turek in the early 90's when he played for Czechia. The guy (6'4) looked HUGE compared to other goalies and was like a brick wall on most nights. To me it just looked "wrong" to have that big of a guy playing in the net.

I would tell you that Flames fans have a very different memory of Roman Turek. He was... not great for us.

 

[PlayersLtd]

Shorter goalie needs to be on top of their technique. Less margin for error vs 6’4 guys where the puck would hit them if they are off on their technique as they take up more room in the net.

I think it's the opposite. Large goalies are typically not as athletic and quick and thus rely more on positioning and fundamentals, which is more technical in nature. Whereas a small goalie is forced to rely on his athleticism and reactions, which is less technical.

It's like a Formula 1 car of today vs in the 80's. Now with the big cars it is all technical in how they get around the track with much less margin for error. Previously with a shorter wheelbase you had a whole range of driving styles that were more based on feel and controlled chaos.

 

[Skeletorrr]

I would tell you that Flames fans have a very different memory of Roman Turek. He was... not great for us.

Was he THAT bad really? I didn't follow the NHL too closely back then but was his bad play a reason why flames traded for Kipper? If so, then one could argue that his presence there was a net positive in the grand scheme of things

 

[Hinterland]

The best goalies of the last 30 years have been between 6'0" - 6'3", and Wolf is listed at 6'0".

As I said in the other Wolf thread, there have been more great goalies in that size range than good goalies beyond 6'4".

I don't think there's a downside to being big. If there is a downside it's probably durability. I don't have any data to support this but my feeling says that many big goalies sooner or later have injury problems...probably just because the kind of explosive movements and the back and forth going down and getting up wearing heavy gear puts more pressure on the different parts of your body parts the heavier you are.

Other than that the problem the small goalies have nowadays is that bigger guys can move the same way they do. That's a recent development which is why we see less smaller goalies like Saros or Wolf today.

That doesn't mean they can't still play though. They obviously need perfect positioning though or they get shelled while a bigger goalie might still get away with it.
I think technique, the point Saros made, is another good point. If you have a clean technique you can be a very good goalie even if you're small. Personally, I still think the most important factor for goalie success sits between the ears though. You have to have the ability to track pucks consistently. You have to have the opportunity to keep focus for 60' or more if needed. Not just ones but several times a week and no matter what happens on or off the ice. Being big doesn't help with that one bit.

So again... other than maybe durability I don't think there's an advantage to being small or an advantage to being big but I personally think there are more important factors for goalie success than just size.

If there aren't lots of giants playing goalie in the NHL it's probably because there aren't enough of them in hockey or they're just hurt too often. But in today's world where we see 6'8 athletes move like 5'11 ones I don't see why being 6'4 should be better than being 6'8. You just cover more net the bigger you are.

 

[Hinterland]

I think it's the opposite. Large goalies are typically not as athletic and quick and thus rely more on positioning and fundamentals, which is more technical in nature. Whereas a small goalie is forced to rely on his athleticism and reactions, which is less technical.

It's like a Formula 1 car of today vs in the 80's. Now with the big cars it is all technical in how they get around the track with much less margin for error. Previously with a shorter wheelbase you had a whole range of driving styles that were more based on feel and controlled chaos.

I think that's very much a thing of the past. Athletic Training has made lots of progress over the years. Even the biggest kids are fantastic athletes today. Big or small it's become almost impossible to have success if you aren't an excellent athlete.