Friedman: Duchene/Landeskog for Top-pairing Defenceman in Offseason

[Meeqs]

Oilers' first rebuild was around Hall and Yakupov and both are gone.

Oilers rebuild was overrated when 1 1st OA was a complete bust in Yak and the other was simply a decent 2nd line C in RNH. Only elite player they had before McDavid and their German Prince was Hall. Along with that they drafted terribly in every other round and never found a goaltender or defense.

Fans assume being bad means rebuilding for many teams, but often FO's can be inefficient with what they get out of bad years and in many cases getting nothing of benefit out of it at all.

Moving a bust for a 3rd and trading a top 5 winger in the NHL for a decent top 4 D didn't make EDM any better. Getting the best player in the World by miles from some ping pong balls did.

 

[Riptide]

Sheary's been very good this season. At the very least he can provide you legitimate depth scoring from your 3rd line. He's also not eligible for the expansion draft.

Jake Guentzel is another guy who's looking like a guy who can step into any team's top 9 very soon, if not right now. C/LW versatility.

I'd be willing to add our 1st to lock down Sid's longterm LWer.

So something like Sheary/Guentzel+Maatta/Dumoulin+1st.

Jesus... hell no. We just won a cup based entirely on our depth and ability to run 3 true scoring lines. There's no way in hell I'd move one of the 3 skilled offensive young forwards we have (Sheary, Guentzel, Sprong) and Maatta/Dumo and our 1st for damn near anyone. And I'm not even getting into whether the value is or isn't there - that type of move in general just doesn't make sense for PIT.

Sheary is one of the very few actual skilled wingers we have. Skill and ability to create offense, I'd put him 4th or 5th behind Crosby, Malkin and Kessel (Cullen might beat him out). Guentzel isn't that far behind them either. Not because he's that good (he's not yet), but because PIT has a serious lack of offensive forwards. The vast majority of their forward group is made up from guys who capitalize on what Crosby and Malkin and Kessel create. Or they create their own space due to their speed. But very few are actually have their own offensive skills, and Sheary and Guentzel do.

Sheary currently has 6g/13pts (all ES) in 19 games and is on pace for 25.8g/56.1pts. His shooting % is 14%, so a little high but not outrageous. His next contract is almost certainly less than 2.5-3m (and that's assuming he has a very good season). Now even if he doesn't hit those numbers and only has 17-20g and 35-40 pts at ES. That's still damn good considering how little he's going to cost on his next contract.

Look, do I really have faith that Sheary is going to be a 50-60 pt winger? No. And depending on the deal, I'd probably move him. But it would have to be the right deal, because even though I don't really believe he's going to be that winger... neither am I in a rush to ship his ass out of town considering his speed, skillset and what his next contract will likely be. You want to win another cup? It's depth players like this that will get us there. You want this team to be competitive with a chance at winning another cup in the next 4-5 years? Our early picks in the next draft or two will be crucial.

 

[Riptide]

Where they rank on your club is irrelevant. Olli Maatta isn't a great skater, which is the exact same issue the Avs have with half of their club. He has had severe injury issues, and now has 1 point in 26 games played. He's getting over 4 million for that, until 2022. Dumoulin is having a rough year. He has not solidified himself as a top four defensman in this league yet, and certainly not a top pairing defensman. 44 good games last year + playoffs on a ridiculous Pittsburgh club does not mean he would be anything approaching decent on a miserable Avs team. Now maybe he'll turn it right around, but no, neither he, nor Maatta, are a centrepiece for any deal whatsoever. Trying to suggest they are, when the pieces Landeskog and Duchene were made available for, according to Friedman, were Hampus Lindholm and Jacoub Trouba, is an insult. No, compared to what is being offered, and what the Avs want, they are scraps, man. The Avs are not looking for some secondary piece deal that the Pens can scrabble together. One defensman they could spare, one vastly inferior forward being offered up, one late first rounder...meh. Nice try.


Next up I'll probably be offered Pouliot, and get told he's a "top prospect?"

Uh what? Maybe the fact that COL's blueline is so weak it's colored your perception of what a good defenseman looks like.

I think you need to get out of your bubble and watch some other teams... I agree with the top pairing part and disagree with the 44 good games part (he was very good all season and playoffs long). But he absolutely is a top 4D in the NHL.

 

[Avs44]

Never mind. Not worth the silliness.

 

[Riptide]

Fans assume being bad means rebuilding for many teams, but often FO's can be inefficient with what they get out of bad years and in many cases getting nothing of benefit out of it at all.

Moving a bust for a 3rd and trading a top 5 winger in the NHL for a decent top 4 D didn't make EDM any better. Getting the best player in the World by miles from some ping pong balls did.

Disagree. Larsson has helped that team tremendously. Not knocking McDavid, but he was still there last year, and at the time of his injury EDM was 2 points ahead of CBJ for last place in the standings with a -23 goal differential. Fast forward that to this year... they wouldn't be anywhere near where they are if Hall was here instead of Larsson.

 

[Nordic*]

I try not to do blockbusters, but, an idea.

Duchene OR Landeskog
Barrie

For

Faulk
Lindholm

Lindholm is basically a third-liner. Not much development at all since he came to the NHL.

Close to bust land.

 

[LucastheJames]

The Avs' are in a tough spot. François Beauchemin's play fell off faster than they could have anticipated. Tyson Barrie has not adjusted to a new system yet (though I believe it will pay dividends). After a fantastic pre-season, both Varly and Picks have had a hard time. Soderberg is having a tough year. You can put that on Sakic if you want, but really, who could have predicted that? They don't have enough prospects/picks to trade for a stud to help now (because that would wipe out most of whatever system-depth they have), which means they'd have to trade one core player for a new core player, which, IMO, is robbing Peter to pay Paul. They're just now, after years of waiting, starting to replenish the system after LaCroix decimated it. Their best option right now, IMO, is be patient. Wait for the deadline. Trade for futures. Keep the core. Unless a true #1D somehow becomes available, you just stay the course. The Avs need both scoring and defense, and their depth fell off a cliff. So... Yeah. Rebuilds are hard. I just don't see Sakic, McFarland and Co. blowing it up. And I don't think they should.

 

[Remember2004]

When Patrick is drafted, does that make Duchene expendable

 

[AvsFanJosh]

When Patrick is drafted, does that make Duchene expendable

Nope

 

[Prominence]

why cant avs rebuild around duchene and landeskog? LHD are easier to find than RHD (barrie, johnson).

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If that's the case, why have all reports been that COL is looking for a blueliner?

There are no reports!!

Anything Friedman says starts with something like "last season" or "early in the summer." Roy leaked info to the French media and also had a different mindset of how he wanted the team built compared to Sakic. This lead to the smaller, skilled players (Barrie/Duchene) having their names in the mill because those are the guys Roy wanted to trade.

Now the Avs are back to their old ways of secrecy. When somebody asks Bobby Mac anything about the Avalanche he always talks about how it's impossible to get information on that organization and that he has nothing to report right now. Friedman on the other hand works for Rogers and is forced to speak constantly. He's always being asked questions and feels pressured to say something so he uses the information from in the past. In fairness to Friedman he does always make sure to make it clear that it's "last season" or "early in the summer" but he has had nothing new to report since Patrick Roy left the organization.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Carolina makes sense.

They need a star forward, while the avs need a top 4 dman back.

 

[AslanRH]

If that's the case, why have all reports been that COL is looking for a blueliner?

Oh, I think the Avs are certainly looking for 1 more Defenseman, but that will taper off if Zadorov, Bigras, and Meloche continue to develop. I'm a bit skeptical there regarding what ceiling those 3 have and it wouldn't surprise me if the Avs FO is too.

Getting an established insurance defenseman who is young enough to fit with the core and already somewhat established at the NHL level probably is high on the list of wants.

However, what the Avs need especially right now is legitimate top 6 forwards, arguably potential top line forwards if they are trading Landy or Duchene

 

[Chan790]

Carolina makes sense.

They need a star forward, while the avs need a top 4 dman back.

It would, but it's impossible to discuss because Avs fans don't have reasonable expectations and valuation on their trade assets. One can only spend so long explaining that neither Duchene or Landeskog is worth what the Canes value Hanifin at. There might be something around Faulk...but that doesn't interest them.

They seem to think it's emotional, when it's practical for us. Fact is, if we were going to move Hanifin, we could hold an auction and get a better return, more in line with MacK (which is what we'd demand in a Hanifin trade) than Duchene.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

This just smells Canucks. Gudbranson+5th at the draft for Landeskog+Avs 1st 2018

Benning would do that.....

If he was the f**king Avalanche GM.

 

[JoemAvs]

It would, but it's impossible to discuss because Avs fans don't have reasonable expectations and valuation on their trade assets. One can only spend so long explaining that neither Duchene or Landeskog is worth what the Canes value Hanifin at. There might be something around Faulk...but that doesn't interest them.

They seem to think it's emotional, when it's practical for us. Fact is, if we were going to move Hanifin, we could hold an auction and get a better return, more in line with MacK (which is what we'd demand in a Hanifin trade) than Duchene.

Funny because obviously I feel the exact opposite.

And amuse me.

Who could you get for Hanifin right now that is better than Duchene and even remotely available?

Please. Name some names. Which player more in line with MacKinnon could you get for Hanifin?

Please. Lets ask the fans of that players team how they would feel about your proposal.

 

[Paradise*]

IMO Duchene is a better player than McKinnon. Only thing McKinnon has on Duchene is age and more term. He certainly doesn't have better hockey IQ or history. McKinnon is dumb as ****. He's not a player I'd build around.

 

[Ivan13]

Never mind. Not worth the silliness.

Don't worry, a couple of years ago Pouliot was a top 4 D.

 

[Paradise*]

Funny because obviously I feel the exact opposite.

And amuse me.

Who could you get for Hanifin right now that is better than Duchene and even remotely available?

Please. Name some names. Which player more in line with MacKinnon could you get for Hanifin?

Please. Lets ask the fans of that players team how they would feel about your proposal.

As a neutral fan...

I agree that Duchene is probably the best offer that Carolina can get.

What team is gonna trade a player of his talents? Nobody. Most reams are still competing for the playoffs.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If Trouba is sticking to his guns and won't sign here long term I think Landeskog is a strong offer. Would be tough to beat.

What makes you think that Trouba would commit long term with Colorado? I see him more or less signing in the East when he becomes a UFA in 4 years or so. Doubt he has any desire to sign a long term deal with Colorado.

 

[MinJaBen]

As a Canes fan, if we were targeting a trade for an Avs forward, I'd think Duchene would be the guy. Certainly Landeskog and MacKinnon are excellent as well, but Duchene is a center and more available. And frankly, I think he'd be a better fit in Carolina. As other Canes fans have said, I don't think Hanifin, Slavin or Pesce are available, so if Faulk is a non-starter for Avs fans, then there will not be a deal.

 

[Chan790]

As a neutral fan...

I agree that Duchene is probably the best offer that Carolina can get.

What team is gonna trade a player of his talents? Nobody. Most reams are still competing for the playoffs.

Better today isn't the immediate issue in a Hanifin/Slavin trade...we'd want the best projected NHL-ready 1C/RW on their ELC we can get, for our present and future core. The Canes needs if we move one of our superb young D is for a young top-line forward with years of team control. Thus, MacKinnon is the only piece from the Avs worth considering in a Hanifin deal.

Matt Duchene isn't the best offer we'd get because he's really not an offer that should be considered at all in the current situation. If offered, the Canes I would assume, counter with Faulk who is age, quality, contract comparable to Duchene...and hang-up if the Avs stick with the Hanifin demand or ask for Slavin instead.

We're prepared to move a quality young D to fill our immediate forward need...but that D is most-likely Faulk and only Faulk because he's older, higher-paid, has less term, is more established and carries a higher value to teams seeking a definite 1D.

If you want the kids, it's going to cost quality youth. Offers like Matt Duchene won't be considered.

 

[JoemAvs]

Better today isn't the immediate issue in a Hanifin/Slavin trade...we'd want the best projected NHL-ready 1C/RW on their ELC we can get, for our present and future core. The Canes needs if we move one of our superb young D is for a young top-line forward with years of team control. Thus, MacKinnon is the only piece from the Avs worth considering in a Hanifin deal.

Matt Duchene isn't the best offer we'd get because he's really not an offer that should be considered at all in the current situation. If offered, the Canes I would assume, counter with Faulk who is age, quality, contract comparable to Duchene...and hang-up if the Avs stick with the Hanifin demand or ask for Slavin instead.

We're prepared to move a quality young D to fill our immediate forward need...but that D is most-likely Faulk and only Faulk because he's older, higher-paid, has less term, is more established and carries a higher value to teams seeking a definite 1D.

If you want the kids, it's going to cost quality youth. Offers like Matt Duchene won't be considered.

Offers like Matt Duchene.....


You realize that guy would be arguably your best player right the moment after you make the deal?

This is a legit #1 C who is 25 years old, has 0 questionmarks and has been a staple for freaking Team Canada for quite some time now.
He has an olympic gold medal for gods sake.

You are talking like he is some scrub or second tier piece. Guys as good as him are almost never on the market. Especially when the only reason for him possibly getting traded is because the Avs are inept and not because of some falling out or struggle.

And you still can't answer who that imaginary player is that is so much better than Duchene and that you could get for Hanifin.

And we all know why you won't answer. Because no such player exists. Toronto is not giving you Matthews for Hanifin. Florida is not giving you Barkov. Edmonton is not giving you McDavid. Buffalo is not giving you Eichel. How many younger and better #1 C do you think are in this league?


If you don't want to trade Hanifin than fine but stop embarassing yourself trying to devalue Duchene.

And no Faulk for Duchene makes 0 sense for the Avs for multiple reasons so it is not even worth discussing.

 

[strictlyrandy]

How is Matt Duchene not quality youth?

Acting like he's 37 up in here..

 

[Chan790]

How is Matt Duchene not quality youth?

Acting like he's 37 up in here..

No, he's 25...age-comparable to Faulk, whom we said would be the likely offer.

He's not a desirable asset in a deal for a 19 year old D spec with 1D upside and elite talent to go with years of team-control. That's the kind of decision that gets GMs fired. It's a terrible offer for the Canes that will bite us in the a** for the next decade or so as Hani improves and his value far outpaces Duchene's.

I honestly think Faulk is a fair offer...and I'd even add something to him to get it done, but he's the centerpiece of any Canes offer for Duchene, the only young Canes D available to Colorado.