Friedman: Duchene/Landeskog for Top-pairing Defenceman in Offseason

[Pierce Hawthorne]

well... apparently they are asking for a top pairing dman right? Tanev and Edler are their top pairing dman, based on ice time, those 2 dominate it, Edler runs the offence, Tanev is stable, not sure why you guys want Juolevi who is not even a top pairing dman. Tanev is 2 years older,

Because Juolevi would fit into our core much more appropriately then what Tanev does.

If we're moving Duchene, it's a sign that our core is changing to a new core younger core.


Now, depending on what's added to Tanev he could still be a target for the Avs as he is already a solid Dman for sure.


But my point of the post was that if Juolevi is the centerpiece of a Duchene trade, it would have significant other pieces coming along with it. Although the same would be said for Tanev.


EDIT: Actually, thinking about it more Tanev doesn't really fit at least not right now. He's a Right hand Shot and the Avs already have the right side set up in the Top 4 with EJ and Barrie.

Now if they also look at moving Barrie in the summer, perhaps it becomes more of a fit but right now it's not.

 

[falconski]

Looking at Colorado's roster I think they need defensemen and wingers BADLY, but I can't decide which is the more grave need.

it's wingers, with Zadorov-EJ, X-Barrie, with the X having a decent chance of being Bigras, our top 4 isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be (assuming Barrie figures out how to play decently again, he's been terrible this year)

 

[dellzor]

Tanev for one of them, thanks.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Tanev for one of them, thanks.

What's the +?

 

[TacitEndorsement]

What's the +?

Tanev + thanks

 

[lawrence]

Because Juolevi would fit into our core much more appropriately then what Tanev does.

If we're moving Duchene, it's a sign that our core is changing to a new core younger core.


Now, depending on what's added to Tanev he could still be a target for the Avs as he is already a solid Dman for sure.


But my point of the post was that if Juolevi is the centerpiece of a Duchene trade, it would have significant other pieces coming along with it. Although the same would be said for Tanev.


EDIT: Actually, thinking about it more Tanev doesn't really fit at least not right now. He's a Right hand Shot and the Avs already have the right side set up in the Top 4 with EJ and Barrie.

Now if they also look at moving Barrie in the summer, perhaps it becomes more of a fit but right now it's not.

errrr no..... the rumor is the asking price of our top pairing dman.... We give you Tanev and a no name prospect thats about it. If you want Hutton we will gladly give him to you, as his ice time in the past 4 weeks is almost like a top pairing dman anywas.

 

[Meeqs]

Just came out earlier today in Friedman's 30 thoughts. There were some rumours before the draft that Ducks and Avs talked about a Lindholm/Landeskog swap, while Trouba has been rumoured around the Avs lately. We can also perhaps include Hamonic as one of them since Avs and Islanders have been scouting each team lately.

Avs did tell clubs that because Landeskog and Duchene are signed for great cap friendly deals, it should increase their trade value. Whatever the case is, sounds like these types of moves are extremely hard to conduct during the season. If Avs do finish in the bottom third again, we might legitimately see a trade of this calibre in the offseason.

Honestly this is incredibly misleading. No where in the article does he mention that the Avs are trying to move them in the offseason. It only states they are the players who are not, not going to be moved. Here is the actual excerpt which you really should have added in the OP.

"12. Colorado Avalanche GM Joe Sakic told The Denver Post’s Terry Frei he is not inclined to make changes despite a rough start.

“Not right now, no…changes are hard to do, especially this time of year. We’re two games under .500, but a four-game swing and you’re two games over .500 and right back in it.â€

Colorado’s core (all signed long-term) is made up of Tyson Barrie, Matt Duchene, Erik Johnson (out 6-8 weeks with a broken fibula), Gabriel Landeskog, Nathan MacKinnon and Semyon Varlamov.

Varlamov’s hold on the net in tenuous, so he’s an obvious candidate when it is time. But who else?

The Avalanche are looking to add defencemen, not lose them. MacKinnon’s not going anywhere. That leaves Duchene/Landeskog, but one thing Colorado told clubs last summer was both men had great-value contracts, which increased the price.

Duchene has two more seasons at $6 million. Landeskog has four more years as $5.57 million, although the actual salary is higher. The team has about $17 million coming off the cap next summer (including Brad Stuart’s buyout), so I wonder if the organization prefers to see what it can add with that flexibility before tearing apart the core."

Also for anyone not aware in another recent Denver Post interview Sakic said the teams struggles "aren't a core problem, but a team problem".

The Avs core have actually be great, albeit injured. They are just surrounded by garbage.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

errrr no..... the rumor is the asking price of our top pairing dman.... We give you Tanev and a no name prospect thats about it. If you want Hutton we will gladly give him to you, as his ice time in the past 4 weeks is almost like a top pairing dman anywas.

Then we say no quite easily.


Well, that was simple and productive.

I could get into a hole spiel about how Tanev isn't a true top pairing guy and really a good #3. But given how this thread is going right now I feel it would be a wast of my time and go nowhere.

 

[lawrence]

Then we say no quite easily.


Well, that was simple and productive.

why are you saying no? The Canucks are offering you a top pariing dman.

 

[Meeqs]

Looking at Colorado's roster I think they need defensemen and wingers BADLY, but I can't decide which is the more grave need.

They just need depth. Specifically a #4 dman who can play with Barrie, and a solid 3rd liner where D is concerned. They have good puck moving skilled Dmen but they badly need some defensively sound options that don't struggle to transition the puck. There is an X factor in Will Butcher should he sign and make an impact on the team that could make Barrie available for a Dman with a different skill set.

They also need 2-3 middle 6 wingers, especially those who have the ability to finish. Right now they are well set up with 92/29 on one line and 9/96 on the other, but outside of that really only have 1 solid 3rd line winger in Comeau and 2 fringe 3rd line wingers in a streaking Bourque and Grigs. Especially with the core getting injured there is just no one on the roster to replace them and it has hurt the team mightily.

But really its just a lack of quality NHL depth that is holding the Avs back right now. They don't need anyone elite, just about 5-6 players who are good.

 

[Avs44]

why are you saying no? The Canucks are offering you a top pariing dman.

...and killing an already depleted offence, one of the worst in the league, while adding another right handed, top four defensman. Did you think we had to say "yes?"

 

[Meeqs]

This just smells Canucks. Gudbranson+5th at the draft for Landeskog+Avs 1st 2018

You know that Gudbranson is barely and NHL level player and the Nucks GM is looney right?

 

[Meeqs]

I think there's very little chance of a full rebuild, if anything it could potentially be similar to what Edmonton just did.

Making really bad trades and having McDavid carry the team hard enough to cover it up? I'd be ok with that

 

[Foppberg]

Making really bad trades and having McDavid carry the team hard enough to cover it up? I'd be ok with that

Trading the older core for newer pieces to be part of the core, not specifically the exact deal that Edmonton did.

 

[Meeqs]

well... apparently they are asking for a top pairing dman right? Tanev and Edler are their top pairing dman, based on ice time, those 2 dominate it, Edler runs the offence, Tanev is stable, not sure why you guys want Juolevi who is not even a top pairing dman. Tanev is 2 years older,

Tanev is a solid #2 dman and probably a #3 on a good one. They only look good because Van is so bad. If anyone was going to give up anything for Edler it would have happened already.

 

[Riptide]

No chance the Avs trade their ONLY proven top 6 winger and their captain for a guy who would be 3rd on the RHD depth chart.

Avs need forwards, not D.

If that's the case, why have all reports been that COL is looking for a blueliner?

 

[Meeqs]

Trading the older core for newer pieces to be part of the core, not specifically the exact deal that Edmonton did.

No but they would easily get the worse end of the deal, like Edm did.

Fans always get Kessel Syndrome when their teams struggle, thinking some how the good players are the problem instead of the terrible ones holding them down.

 

[Hennessy]

This is pretty insulting to have the "Friedman" label on it, for reasons many others have noted. It's a cheap way to make one's own speculation sound official.

 

[Balthazar]

Oilers' first rebuild was around Hall and Yakupov and both are gone.

 

[Avs44]

This is pretty insulting to have the "Friedman" label on it, for reasons many others have noted. It's a cheap way to make one's own speculation sound official.

Pretty much. As I said on the first page, this title needs to be changed by a mod. It's quite misleading.

 

[Meeqs]

If that's the case, why have all reports been that COL is looking for a blueliner?

Because the media is currently in a state of mainly mass producing clickbait articles and recycling the same 2 year old narrative to reduce the needed workload and increase how many they can pump out.

That or fans basing their impressions of situations on a small number of articles because no normal person could keep up with more than a single team at an in depth level let alone 30.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If that's the case, why have all reports been that COL is looking for a blueliner?

All these reports were before the season started. Even this one Friedman is talking about is based on a report from earlier this summer.


The Avs are now 30th in Goals for on the season, and have all of 4(?) forwards on pace for more then 40 points this year. While Zadorov is quietly having himself a breakout campaign playing Top 4 and Top pairing minutes and doing well in that role.

At this point, they have at least as big of a need for a high end forward as they do a Top pairing D...


It all depends on how the draft goes though really. If they draft a Dman like Foote or Liljegren, then any trade involving Duchene would almost definitely have to be for another forward.

If they draft a forward, they probably look at trading for a Dman.

 

[PAZ]

Anaheim isn't trading you Lindholm. Or at least they shouldn't. He's on a different tier in value.

And if you think Trouba is more valuable than Sheary, Maatta/Dumoulin and a 1st, fair enough. Doesn't really make much sense when you already have two top 4 RD in Barrie and Johnson.

Lindholm is on a different tier, but that tier is closer between Landeskog/Duchene than your package of Sheary, Maatta/Dumo, and 1st.

Sheary is realistically a 30 point player 3rd line tweener without Crosby, he just happens to have good chemistry with him. Dumo/Maatta are great, but again they're complimentary defenseman, you can't build around them. Then it's a late 1st.

They're good players, but not anyone you can build around or expect to push the play. When you're giving up someone of Duchene or Landeskog's caliber, it can't be for a bunch of complimentary players. Either a package of young players/prospects with potential, or a swap for a young player with high pedigree.

 

[Avs44]

If that's the case, why have all reports been that COL is looking for a blueliner?

A top young blueliner, someone who can solidify their defence and lead it for a long time. Hampus Lindholm. Jacob Trouba, if they are high on him. The Avs were apparently also in on Subban. They are looking for a potential #1 defensman by the looks of it if they are moving Duchene or Landeskog, not just anyone. The Hamonic "rumors," for example, have come from people like Jim Matheson in Edmonton, and those stemmed from speculation from Staples. The credible people have them interested in bigger names - and those bigger names are no longer on the table. So I'm not quite seeing the relevance anymore, to be quite honest. This latest report from Friedman? As much as the OP twisted it, it's Friedman actually talking about last summer. There's nothing new in it.

 

[JoemAvs]

If that's the case, why have all reports been that COL is looking for a blueliner?

The Avs desperately need a #1 D.

I still don't understand why people believe that the Avs need Wingers of all things after looking at our roster/system. It honestly baffles me. The Avs have maybe 5 quality dman in their whole system if everyone develops perfectly (which they won't). None of them is a real #1 D and the same people wanting wingers can't wait to trade Barrie for one for some reason.

We already have two top line wingers in Rantanen and Landeskog and have Jost marinating in college (he either plays wing himself or will push one of Mac/Duchene to wing if he is a better fit there chemistrywise).

What the Avs could use is a few more complimentary players (and they even have a few of them coming through the ranks now with Greer, Beaudin or Morrison).

But those should be the last thing you add.

Right now the focus has to be on landing a #1 D. I am not a fan of GM Sakic to say the least but to his credit he seems to understand that..