Puck dropped: How failed hockey bid adds to Fresno Convention Center drama
Lots of issues. ADA compliance is an expensive one.
Lots of issues. ADA compliance is an expensive one.
Don't count on Fresno getting another hockey team
- Thread starter LadyStanley
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Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
I think they mean any sort of fan revenue-driven hockey. The Fresno Monsters like all USPHL-Premier teams are pay to play.
Fresno had always had issues going back to the Falcons existence.... BD..... This just confirms what likely those there knew everytime the market was discussed and nothing materialized as PCS can tell you
Fresno State could have an NCAA D-I ice hockey team at their arena, Save Mart Center. All the FBS schools in California should launch one.
To cut down on launch and operating costs, the teams would all use existing arenas, or in one case an arena soon to be built by an NHL team for its minor league affiliate:
Cal - Oakland Arena
San Diego State - Pechanga Arena
San Jose State - new arena at Sharks' practice facility
Stanford - SAP Center
UCLA - Honda Center
USC - Long Beach Arena
To cut down on launch and operating costs, the teams would all use existing arenas, or in one case an arena soon to be built by an NHL team for its minor league affiliate:
Cal - Oakland Arena
San Diego State - Pechanga Arena
San Jose State - new arena at Sharks' practice facility
Stanford - SAP Center
UCLA - Honda Center
USC - Long Beach Arena
Fresno State's been discussed numerous times since the Falcons collapse, Z, they'd block any pro team in either Save Mart or Seiland.....
PAC 12 has enough to deal with in the midst of a Pandemic.... never mind the existing Pacific Division that has been established the last 7 seasons( it's why the Barracuda are side by side in their own arena instead of sharing SAP Center)
Oakland Arena aka the original ORACLE is gonzo, Z, THAT'S been transferred to Alameda County as the A's have that control now that the Warriors are in San Francisco again along with the Giants at Chase Center, never mind Santa Cruz....
I don't see Anaheim allowing a second tenant at Honda Center
It's because of the Kings' Stanley Cup titles in the 2010s that we even have AHL hockey in California (the desire of Western NHL teams to have closer AHL affiliates and the state's increasing dissatisfaction with the ECHL as well). NCAA Division I ice hockey is the natural next step to the increasing popularity of hockey in the state.
that has nothing to do with Fresno or the topic, Z, LA/Anaheim/Calgary/Edmonton/SJ to name 5 already exist, and once Seattle starts you add Palm Springs to that sextant, not unlike what occurred when ASM Global (then AEG) was in New England from 2000 on until 2019 when Manchester (which originally was Ontario) collapsed.... Augusta, Georgia collapsed weeks before Fresno did and nobody has touched that market since, in any league, junior or otherwise.
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Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Congrats. There are hockey suitable rinks near colleges. None of those schools are adding hockey any time soon. No reliable source has ever linked those schools to adding NCAA DI hockey. If the game you're playing is naming arenas that schools are near, then you would be tough pressed to find a big school that isn't near an arena...
Holy fake news, Z. Like usual, what you are saying is entirely false.
The Pacific Division of the AHL was a long time coming with teams having expressed desire to cut down call-up times while keeping reduced travel times far earlier than LA King's Cup success.
The only two AHL Pacific teams that were direct switches from ECHL markets, Stockton and Bakersfield, both have lower attendance in the AHL than in the ECHL.
And like I said, no California school has ever expressed serious interest or ability in adding NCAA DI hockey. American states that have large numbers of hockey players and pro hockey don't have NCAA DI hockey. Texas, Florida both don't despite having high participation numbers and all levels of pro hockey. Eastern Pennsylvania have one of the highest participation rates and no college hockey. Illinois is as well, they don't have college hockey.
But with how much of you're thinking and assertions have been proven to be outright false and not based in facts, I really shouldn't be surprised. Can you please try actually posting something that has some sort of factual basis or is at least based in logic? Please and thank you. It is actually frustrating trying to correct the insanely illogical and false things you continuously post. You are fake news.
210
Registered User
The San Jose Sharks were openly talking about wanting to move their AHL affiliate to the West Coast as early as 2008.
Centrum Hockey
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Most of The echl teams in ca before the swap had pretty successfully runs and had owners that where locally committed. I am sure the fans in Bakersfield and Stockton wish the echl owners of the thunder and condors where still involved in running the business operations of their ahl team’s.
Nevertheless, California wanted better minor league hockey. A number of ECHL markets have lots of fans that prefer to be in the AHL. The ECHL Manchester Monarchs failing after 4 seasons is an example of this.
210
Registered User
Ummm...no. That franchise was already failing when they were in the AHL.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Stockton and Bakersfield both have lower attendance in the AHL than they had in the ECHL. Thanks Mr. Fake News. Try again after you gain some knowledge.
Z:
why do you think Stockton and Calgary are on borrowed time right now as had COVID not intervened the last thing that was being discussed there was Calgary's intention to remain there longer than 2021-22..... the issues around Stockton's practice arena being as old as some Eastern junior arena markets a primary cause of that discussion/concern. Stockton Arena in itself is aging, and being neglected by ASM Global is another reason Calgary's not happy with the city and/or the arena manager..... most of those CA Markets as well as Fresno are managed by ASM Global... Stockton's fanbase isn't exactly enamored with ASM either from what I've read/heard/ and talked with several of their members of their fanbase as to what those issues are....
Calgary's MO of how they operate in a given market is a concern to all fans, also, since they started owning and/or operating their top affiliate, no matter whether they own and operate it as they do currently or have it leased to an outside group, to operate it, as was the case in Saint John, Omaha, Quad City, and Abbotsford from 1993-2014.
why do you think Stockton and Calgary are on borrowed time right now as had COVID not intervened the last thing that was being discussed there was Calgary's intention to remain there longer than 2021-22..... the issues around Stockton's practice arena being as old as some Eastern junior arena markets a primary cause of that discussion/concern. Stockton Arena in itself is aging, and being neglected by ASM Global is another reason Calgary's not happy with the city and/or the arena manager..... most of those CA Markets as well as Fresno are managed by ASM Global... Stockton's fanbase isn't exactly enamored with ASM either from what I've read/heard/ and talked with several of their members of their fanbase as to what those issues are....
Calgary's MO of how they operate in a given market is a concern to all fans, also, since they started owning and/or operating their top affiliate, no matter whether they own and operate it as they do currently or have it leased to an outside group, to operate it, as was the case in Saint John, Omaha, Quad City, and Abbotsford from 1993-2014.
royals119
Registered User
While it sounds like Fresno is way on the back burner for now, and there would be some hurdles to overcome if it was brought up in the future, the article actually seems to imply that the city council and AEG would be interested in hockey, if it wan't a money loser for them.
IF (big if) things change in Utica and Vancouver were looking for a spot out west to put their team, it is a spot they would likely investigate. Likewise Winnipeg, if they eventually feel the market is over-crowded and they wanted to move the Moose out. Both of these are extremely unlikely in the short or long term, and an ECHL team seems even less likely considering the travel they would face. (although Utah, Idaho, Rapid City, and Newfoundland, etc are all flying a lot already, so it's not impossible - especially if one of the California AHL teams or Vegas decided they wanted a nearby ECHL team (or a couple of them wanted to have a nearby team to pull free agents from and make rehab assignments)
IF (big if) things change in Utica and Vancouver were looking for a spot out west to put their team, it is a spot they would likely investigate. Likewise Winnipeg, if they eventually feel the market is over-crowded and they wanted to move the Moose out. Both of these are extremely unlikely in the short or long term, and an ECHL team seems even less likely considering the travel they would face. (although Utah, Idaho, Rapid City, and Newfoundland, etc are all flying a lot already, so it's not impossible - especially if one of the California AHL teams or Vegas decided they wanted a nearby ECHL team (or a couple of them wanted to have a nearby team to pull free agents from and make rehab assignments)
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Vancouver has outright said if they were to relocate the Comets out of Utica, it would be to a city in British Columbia closer to home. Abbotsford and Chilliwack were two cities that were listed.
the question then becomes what market is available without impacting the existing teams and if Calgary isn't happy with the arena management at last check in Stockton, they were still looking at a long-term contract there.....
AEG no longer exists an an entity now if they've rebranded to ASM Global, royals, tbth.
what market could Foley go to.... without damaging the brand either in Vegas or Henderson, otherwise spot on.
Centrum Hockey
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I believe Vancouver was skeptical the last time they renewed with Utica. That a team in British Columbia could be viable if it was the only one in that area.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
That is the reason why they extended with Utica. They said they love it there, they have no plans to leave, their prospects are treated well and are developing there, the city treats the organization well, and everything else they have been saying since the Comets started play. They did saw if they were to relocate, it would have to be in British Columbia, likely Abbotsford. They said they wouldn't do that because the team would be on the island, travel would be horrible, which would negatively affect prospect development, etc.
In all, they pretty much said "We're not moving the team. If we were, we would put it here. It would make sense to put it here for us. But it doesn't make sense to put it there for these reasons. Besides, we're not moving the team to begin with."
a lot to do with Abbotsford's relationship to the league and how Calgary blocked another club's incursion (VAN hadn't then gone into the owner/operation business at that point), but, Centrum, Esche is now a known commodity in the League, not just Utica, even Andrews praised him on TSN1240 as part of his transition to President-Emeritas, the Canucks/Aquillini's/Orca Bay AREN'T looking to leave there or opt out..... the NEXUS Center IS Progressing despite the pandemic, which is something that the Mohawk Valley hasn't seen in years, if ever, the way you want a practice arena close to the where the franchise plays is about as equal to committed as a franchise can be in a given community
guinness
Not Ingrid for now
Seeing Fresno on here brings back some memories of living Clovis.
TBH, I wouldn't expect a potential new team to end up an different than the Falcons, whom did the downtown to campus shuffle. The city already has an albatross in the Grizzlies.
Don't know how Stockton and Bakersfield do it, but maybe it's because they're at the end of the valley and not in the middle of it.
TBH, I wouldn't expect a potential new team to end up an different than the Falcons, whom did the downtown to campus shuffle. The city already has an albatross in the Grizzlies.
Don't know how Stockton and Bakersfield do it, but maybe it's because they're at the end of the valley and not in the middle of it.
Centrum Hockey
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MLB wants to demote the grizzles to the CA league and it looks like at the moment they are going to be successful. The owners of the team are probably going to want a more favorable deal from the city to stay given their revenue will probably decrease which could put the city in a worse spot to attract a hockey team.
guinness
Not Ingrid for now
I've been to CA league games in Visalia, and they play in a fun little neighborhood park. Like 2,500 people, including the outfield berm. Chukchansi in on another scale, and is closer to 12,500.
However, unless the attendance has improved (admittingly a tough sell in Fresno summers), it will just continue to get subsidized by the city...which I think they spent close to $50 million on to build it. I guess they would have little choice but to have high A ball there, however it would be pretty amusing.
An issue I always had with downtown Fresno, is that they did jack all with that area around Fulton Mall. But apparently the city keeps trying to make that part of downtown a thing. If it wasn't for the courthouse, I'm not even sure if the parking garage across from Chukchansi would be used during the day.
The Falcons folded just after I moved to Clovis, but I got the feeling that the university didn't really want to share it either.
I guess I'm just oddly reminiscing and rambling now, but TL;DR I don't see the AHL making a stop in Fresno. The politics and trying to undo some bad developments get in the way.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
You mean besides the fact there will be no more league expansion and no possible relocation candidates that would be interested in Fresno to begin with? Yeah, the AHL isn't making a stop in Fresno...
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