Confirmed with Link: Don Waddell Resigns not be confused with Re-Sign

[Unsustainable]

I can't remember which podcast this was, but it was within the past year so it was around the time he was getting outside GM interviews. Tulsky touched on that subject of being a manger and leading teams as opposed to just doing research/analysis on his own. He seemed to make it a point that he wasn't just sitting in a room with a couple engineers. With his promotion to AGM he was now leading all people involved with the pro-scouting side of hockey ops and compared it to his time leading research teams.

It's a good question on if he can handle that part of the job, and I would assume it's one of the main questions he's gotten from the teams who interviewed him. So when I heard that in the podcast it stuck with me as him trying to sell himself as having those abilities. I'll have to see if I can go back and find it, would be good to revisit now.

Either way, I would certainly feel more comfortable with a President of Hockey Ops type that can help him manage relationships with the 200 hockey men. I'd still want to make sure Tulsky has the autonomy to make the final decision like most other GMs, so Williams might be a great fit for that role where his ego won't get in the way and he knows how to manage up to Dundon.

JWilly for POHO

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Unless there’s evidence that it’s a money thing, let’s not start that rumor. Lord knows there’s already enough misguided “Dundon cheap” narrative out there without this adding on to it.

It's a reasonable assumption though, even if it may or may not be the case.

1) Dundon didn't want to pay top dollar in the first place when he initially interviewed guys and finally settled on Waddell. He said something to the effect that there are more than 30 guys that can do this job (which is essentially saying he doesn't need to pay top dollar).

2) He did the same thing with announcers and scouts, getting rid of higher priced guys and bringing in lower priced people that he felt could do the job just as well.

3) When Waddell came up for renewal the first time, Dundon said he doesn't believe in contracts and basically forced Waddell's hand to go out and interview for other jobs before matching.

4) Waddell's contract is expiring and up until recently, there's been no indication of any internal strife or that he was leaving.

5) Waddell is 65 years old and a GM job requires an exorbitant amount of time. I'm suspect he doesn't "need" the money, but at that age, if someone is going to require you to put in that amount of time, stress, etc... the have to make it worth your while. I'd get tired of having to go do a bunch of interviews just to get a contract with the team I'm already the GM of.

6) Dundon has said repeatedly that he wants to spend money on players (on ice product). I'm sure there are some guys like Rod (also maybe like Tulsky?) that he's going to pay to keep as he views them as irreplaceable.

It could be something totally different for sure, but it smells like salary to me. It's all speculation though.

I'm not blaming Dundon here, it's his business and he's been successful running it how he has.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

So what if it's a money thing?

The money belongs where it can most help the team win. Period.

DW was a perfectly good GM -- even though it seemed like he wouldn't be when we hired him. Remember how some folks thought he was brought in for his experience in relocating a team? Remember? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

More importantly, though, DW was part of an unusual team management approach, with opinions coming from all around. (Unusual in hockey, that is, but pretty common everywhere else.) That approach has proven its worth with the best stretch of prolonged success in franchise history. Yes, DW was a valuable contributor, but I don't think anything fundamentally changes with his departure.

 

[chaz4hockey]

It's a reasonable assumption though, even if it may or may not be the case.

1) Dundon didn't want to pay top dollar in the first place when he initially interviewed guys and finally settled on Waddell. He said something to the effect that there are more than 30 guys that can do this job (which is essentially saying he doesn't need to pay top dollar).

2) He did the same thing with announcers and scouts, getting rid of higher priced guys and bringing in lower priced people that he felt could do the job just as well.

3) When Waddell came up for renewal the first time, Dundon said he doesn't believe in contracts and basically forced Waddell's hand to go out and interview for other jobs before matching.

4) Waddell's contract is expiring and up until recently, there's been no indication of any internal strife or that he was leaving.

5) Waddell is 65 years old and a GM job requires an exorbitant amount of time. I'm suspect he doesn't "need" the money, but at that age, if someone is going to require you to put in that amount of time, stress, etc... the have to make it worth your while. I'd get tired of having to go do a bunch of interviews just to get a contract with the team I'm already the GM of.

6) Dundon has said repeatedly that he wants to spend money on players (on ice product). I'm sure there are some guys like Rod (also maybe like Tulsky?) that he's going to pay to keep as he views them as irreplaceable.

It could be something totally different for sure, but it smells like salary to me. It's all speculation though.

I'm not blaming Dundon here, it's his business and he's been successful running it how he has.

Re: DW finances:
Listening to 32 thoughts this afternoon the guys indicated that Waddell made a boatload of money when working in Atlanta. Real estate development plus port-a-san business. Take away is he is not moving for $$$$; he is walking away because he can.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

But as it stands today, I think we’re worse off, because we’ve promoted a guy out of a very specific role that he’s very good at and have effectively asked him to divert his attention away from that.

We have no idea what he's been asked to do, actually. We have no idea how roles and responsibilities are split up in the org; they could be split a million different ways. If Tulsky says "I want the GM title but I want to focus on X and not Y," and if he is valuable enough doing X, then Dundon can find someone else to do Y. Or Tulsky can hire someone himself to do Y.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So what if it's a money thing?

The money belongs where it can most help the team win. Period.

I'm not sure if this was aimed at my post, but I agree with this (thus my last line). Dundon has been successful running the team as he has.

I was just trying to clarify that it may indeed be about money and not saying it's wrong.

The Canes look at players similarly. If a guy is irreplaceable they pay. If a guy isn't a core guy, they don't pay.

 

[Joe McGrath]

DW was a perfectly good GM -- even though it seemed like he wouldn't be when we hired him. Remember how some folks thought he was brought in for his experience in relocating a team? Remember? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

I mean they brought him in 10 years ago when they were very much exploring relocation and the topic was at least broached to him after TD took over. He very well may have been brought in with that in mind.

Just because that stuff didnt wind up happening doesnt mean PK didnt consider it when he hired him.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I mean they brought him in 10 years ago when they were very much exploring relocation and the topic was at least broached to him after TD took over. He very well may have been brought in with that in mind.

Just because that stuff didnt wind up happening doesnt mean PK didnt consider it when he hired him.

Fair enough! But the point remains: plenty of folks expected DW's arrival to be the death knell for the franchise. It wasn't. Now some folks expect his departure to be the death knell for the franchise. It isn't.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Re: DW finances:
Listening to 32 thoughts this afternoon the guys indicated that Waddell made a boatload of money when working in Atlanta. Real estate development plus port-a-san business. Take away is he is not moving for $$$$; he is walking away because he can.

Maybe. One thing I've learned from people I know with a LOT of money. Having a lot of money does not mean future decisions aren't still about money.

Not everyone is the same.

I got out and retired as soon as I was financially able to. A guy very high up in the company that I worked for is 5-10 years older than me and was a walking heart attack, yet just kept working even though he is way wealthier. When he finally left, he took a higher paying position at another company. I asked him about it "They made me a deal I couldn't refuse."

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

We have no idea what he's been asked to do, actually. We have no idea how roles and responsibilities are split up in the org; they could be split a million different ways. If Tulsky says "I want the GM title but I want to focus on X and not Y," and if he is valuable enough doing X, then Dundon can find someone else to do Y. Or Tulsky can hire someone himself to do Y.

I mean, maybe. Maybe Tulsky won’t be working the phones, making the final decisions, handling contract negotiations, etc. But then he’s not really a GM, is he? So… if that’s the case, then yes, you’re right that we don’t know. But IMO we can venture a good enough guess.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Maybe. One thing I've learned from people I know with a LOT of money. Having a lot of money does not mean future decisions aren't still about money.

Not everyone is the same.

I got out and retired as soon as I was financially able to. A guy very high up in the company that I worked for is 5-10 years older than me and was a walking heart attack, yet just kept working even though he is way wealthier. When he finally left, he took a higher paying position at another company. I asked him about it "They made me a deal I couldn't refuse."

Money is a proxy, in many ways, for ambition. Some guys are extremely ambitious even at an older phase of their life.

 

[3CanesInTheBox]

I have no idea how to feel. Not the kind of "chaos" I'd like before such a pivotal offseason; but I also have no idea what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Money is a proxy, in many ways, for ambition. Some guys are extremely ambitious even at an older phase of their life.

That's true sometimes. Sometimes it's also just a "habit". You've accumulated wealth your whole life and don't want to stop now.

It was one of the hardest thing for me when I retired. I've had some steady income since I was 15 years old and contributed to 401K and stock plans for over 30 years. To suddenly not be doing that was a bit unnerving.

 

[To Be Determined]

Yes, an assumption, hence the qualification "most likely". Based on years of observations of personnel in the software industry.

But let's face it, it was Don working the phone lines with the other GMs. Hopefully Tulsky is up to the task.

Gotcha. And based on software guys, sure. But guys who train as chemists before taking a different path? We're all awesome and have no social interaction issues. None at all. They. I mean they are awesome...

I honestly wondered if i had missed something, like a throwaway statement in past years about sheltering him in his role or something.

I hope he is as capable at the schmoozing part and the dicks on the table part as he is at analytical stuff. We'll see.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Maybe. One thing I've learned from people I know with a LOT of money. Having a lot of money does not mean future decisions aren't still about money.

Not everyone is the same.

I got out and retired as soon as I was financially able to. A guy very high up in the company that I worked for is 5-10 years older than me and was a walking heart attack, yet just kept working even though he is way wealthier. When he finally left, he took a higher paying position at another company. I asked him about it "They made me a deal I couldn't refuse."

Haha so true. Different paths are taken by many.

I am very happily retired but I also know a bunch of people in Naples that need the power and money to exist. They continue to work in key roles/board positions well into their 80’s and never think of “slowing” down because their ego needs it.

I enjoy my family, our pets and the ability to go get breakfast at my favorite breakfast shop in shorts and a cotton t shirt without thinking twice.

 

[Unsustainable]

Do Interm GMs have a contract?

So like Dundon could have Tulsky be the Interm GM indefinitely?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

It's a reasonable assumption though, even if it may or may not be the case.

1) Dundon didn't want to pay top dollar in the first place when he initially interviewed guys and finally settled on Waddell. He said something to the effect that there are more than 30 guys that can do this job (which is essentially saying he doesn't need to pay top dollar).

2) He did the same thing with announcers and scouts, getting rid of higher priced guys and bringing in lower priced people that he felt could do the job just as well.

3) When Waddell came up for renewal the first time, Dundon said he doesn't believe in contracts and basically forced Waddell's hand to go out and interview for other jobs before matching.

4) Waddell's contract is expiring and up until recently, there's been no indication of any internal strife or that he was leaving.

5) Waddell is 65 years old and a GM job requires an exorbitant amount of time. I'm suspect he doesn't "need" the money, but at that age, if someone is going to require you to put in that amount of time, stress, etc... the have to make it worth your while. I'd get tired of having to go do a bunch of interviews just to get a contract with the team I'm already the GM of.

6) Dundon has said repeatedly that he wants to spend money on players (on ice product). I'm sure there are some guys like Rod (also maybe like Tulsky?) that he's going to pay to keep as he views them as irreplaceable.

It could be something totally different for sure, but it smells like salary to me. It's all speculation though.

I'm not blaming Dundon here, it's his business and he's been successful running it how he has.

It's a reasonable assumption, but there's a difference between speculating that it's about money and saying what Sens2Canes said, which was treating it as factual.

 

[To Be Determined]

Until dw says the "real" reason, i'm just going with he saw this as a natural transistion point. Admittedly this is looking like a busier than usual one, there will be roster decisions every off season. Setting those aside, he's established a solid core, secured the coaching staff, got the arena and surrounding area positioned for expansion and updates, and sports book planning kicked off. That is a lot going on. I wouldn't argue if he said he set the franchise up for the future and is ready to let someone else deal with the day to day on all that mess.

If he ends up in cbus, i think he'll be able to focus on the roster and won't have so much side stuff going on.

The only question i have if he ends up with the jackets is, does he trade bean's rfa rights or just not qualify him? Gotta hock those ron francis picks!

 

[Negan4Coach]

Regardless of how one views DW or his tenure- this is a very precarious time to be making a change like this- which perhaps lends credence to the theory that he walked.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Do Interm GMs have a contract?

So like Dundon could have Tulsky be the Interm GM indefinitely?

LOL, maybe it's like when Trump had all those "acting" cabinet positions

 

[WreckingCrew]

Regardless of how one views DW or his tenure- this is a very precarious time to be making a change like this- which perhaps lends credence to the theory that he walked.

The timing is a little weird, but when else do you do it? Obviously not during the season or playoffs, not AFTER you've signed UFAs/RFAs and leave the next guy to deal with in a year. He waited until after the playoffs and getting the coaching locked up (I'm guessing at TDs request). That completed, leave now he gives the organization time to work on their next phase starting with resigning players, draft, and free agency. Not much left for him to do other than a Cup, which he may not care about. He's leaving on a high note where he's helped rebuild this franchise for long-term success...but there's a lot more room for "failure" (basically any step back in team performance) now than "success" (Stanley Cup). What would realistically be the best time to leave otherwise?

 

[The Faulker 27]

Can we start a next GM discussion thread? Don was a fundamental piece of turning this franchise around. He deserves a lot of respect. He's choosing to leave now. I don't blame him, but it's next man up. We need to do more than just spend the night on the dance floor. It's time to take home the crown. Who's gonna help us do it.

 

[Negan4Coach]

The timing is a little weird, but when else do you do it? Obviously not during the season or playoffs, not AFTER you've signed UFAs/RFAs and leave the next guy to deal with in a year. He waited until after the playoffs and getting the coaching locked up (I'm guessing at TDs request). That completed, leave now he gives the organization time to work on their next phase starting with resigning players, draft, and free agency. Not much left for him to do other than a Cup, which he may not care about. He's leaving on a high note where he's helped rebuild this franchise for long-term success...but there's a lot more room for "failure" (basically any step back in team performance) now than "success" (Stanley Cup). What would realistically be the best time to leave otherwise?

Honestly- I'm not sure what they need to do moving forward. But if it were me- I'd probably leave the GM in place to negotiate re-signing people like Guentzal, etc. Then move on from him for a more visionary GM to look to the future.

 

[HisIceness]

So I just thought of something. If Tulsky does end up being the GM and does an equal if not better job than Waddell, then expect the league to start "copy-catting" the Hurricanes. In other words, the end of the "old boys club" and "retreads".

The Coyotes tried the "analytical guru" thing with Chayka but that failed. This one has a legit shot. Let's hope Tulsky is as much a genius at GM as he is at analytics and whatnot.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

At least we used the right resign