Line Combos: Don’t Touch PP1. It’s Good. Very Good.
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- Sep 20, 2007
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They are good. But if the plan is to keep that unit together, and give the kids basically zero meaningful PP time, people need to stfu about Kakko/Laffy production.
Take away all PP points from Artemi/Mika/Kreider/Trochek...see what that looks like for production and compare that to what Kakko/Laffy are doing.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,290
- 21,862
Hard agree with this post. The PP has actually been outstanding but very unlucky.
Some stats (5 on 4 PPs only):
Attempted shots/60 - 124.92 (1st), 2nd place is Dallas at 120.94
Unblocked attempted shots/60 - 98.04 (1st), 2nd place also Dallas at 92.54
xGF/60 - 10.21 (2nd), Dallas is 1st at 10.58
High Danger Chance Generation/60 - 35.74 (2nd), Dallas is also 1st here at 37.08
PP Shooting percentage - 10.91% (29th), only the Islanders, Ducks, and Habs are worse
If the Rangers shot at league median on the PP instead of what they are, they'd have scored 31 PP goals (they have 24).
The Rangers top unit makes up 5 of the top 10 shot generators and 4 of the top 10 xGF generators on the PP (Kreider is 11th) in the league (the others being mostly Dallas' top unit).
Adam Fox has been the best powerplay defenseman in the world for 3 years, leading every major PP category for defensemen since 2021 except p/60 (.12 points behind Hedman).
I am 100% unbothered about the PP except for the fact Trouba is on it. If Fox played the full 2 minutes he would legit be a 90 point D.
Regardless, I hate to say this but the Rangers have at least the 3rd best powerplay in the world. And have for at least 4 years. The kids not being on it is irrelevant imo. It's just nonsensical.
What is not irrelevant, however, is the kids playing PP with the worst regular powerplay D in all of hockey in Trouba. He is the singular reason that unit sucks. He does absolutely nothing right on the powerplay and it has tangibly and visibly cost the team many, many times.
Some stats (5 on 4 PPs only):
Attempted shots/60 - 124.92 (1st), 2nd place is Dallas at 120.94
Unblocked attempted shots/60 - 98.04 (1st), 2nd place also Dallas at 92.54
xGF/60 - 10.21 (2nd), Dallas is 1st at 10.58
High Danger Chance Generation/60 - 35.74 (2nd), Dallas is also 1st here at 37.08
PP Shooting percentage - 10.91% (29th), only the Islanders, Ducks, and Habs are worse
If the Rangers shot at league median on the PP instead of what they are, they'd have scored 31 PP goals (they have 24).
The Rangers top unit makes up 5 of the top 10 shot generators and 4 of the top 10 xGF generators on the PP (Kreider is 11th) in the league (the others being mostly Dallas' top unit).
Adam Fox has been the best powerplay defenseman in the world for 3 years, leading every major PP category for defensemen since 2021 except p/60 (.12 points behind Hedman).
I am 100% unbothered about the PP except for the fact Trouba is on it. If Fox played the full 2 minutes he would legit be a 90 point D.
They're not scoring a lot at ES either. They are scoring at 3rd-low 2nd rates for forwards at ES.
Regardless, I hate to say this but the Rangers have at least the 3rd best powerplay in the world. And have for at least 4 years. The kids not being on it is irrelevant imo. It's just nonsensical.
What is not irrelevant, however, is the kids playing PP with the worst regular powerplay D in all of hockey in Trouba. He is the singular reason that unit sucks. He does absolutely nothing right on the powerplay and it has tangibly and visibly cost the team many, many times.
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They don't care about the PP actually improving. Or else they wouldn't suggest putting a left handed shot in Trocheck's spot.
- Sep 20, 2007
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DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
Great post. A lot of complaining about the top PP unit but there's a reason they don't leave the ice and it's because they routinely are in the offensive zone for 1:30. There's no reason to switch things up except if you have an agenda that requires forcing the kids into a spot they don't deserve just so they can pad their point totals.
The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
- 29,120
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Kind of odd to try to use the stat that they have scored 96% of our PP goals…i mean isnt that expected when they stay out on almost the entire PP? How many “true” PP attempts has the second unit received? The answer is a zero.
I’d love to see what our PP % was in the month of December. Guessing it was not 28% and likely close to something toward the bottom of the league because teams adjusted to our very predictable PP.
Oh and “fancy stats”? Yea those mean jack shit if the puck isnt going in the back of the net. Don’t worry guys, Mika and Panarin just missing the net 6 out of 7 times is still good, just “Unlucky” lol
The arguement is by a lot of posters is to tinker with the PP when it is clearly not working and stale. Which was for quite a long stretch in December. It wouldnt be the end of the world to put a different player on the top unit here and there to see if it brings new life to something that has gotten stale for a bit.
I’d love to see what our PP % was in the month of December. Guessing it was not 28% and likely close to something toward the bottom of the league because teams adjusted to our very predictable PP.
Oh and “fancy stats”? Yea those mean jack shit if the puck isnt going in the back of the net. Don’t worry guys, Mika and Panarin just missing the net 6 out of 7 times is still good, just “Unlucky” lol
The arguement is by a lot of posters is to tinker with the PP when it is clearly not working and stale. Which was for quite a long stretch in December. It wouldnt be the end of the world to put a different player on the top unit here and there to see if it brings new life to something that has gotten stale for a bit.
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HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
All true. But that said the idea that there is a large group of people out there who want to shoehorn the kids onto PP1 is a bit of a strawman. There are like <5 people on this entire board actually saying that. Creating disproportionate noise to how many people actually think this.
Just hit the like button next time.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
I didn't say there were a lot of people pushing it, but if you are one of them (generally speaking) you are wrong to do so.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
- 29,120
- 38,697
Elite shutdown #1 dman.
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
Seriously, I’m getting pushback that he’s been good but I just don’t see it, seems to get caved in a lot. Don’t know how to look up the stats so was hoping for some insight here.
40% of our PP goals are scored by a single person. To say the PP has become predictable is an understatement. The only staples on our PP need to be Fox and Zib. From there, we have more than enough talent to experiment. Maybe the current combo of 5 is the best, but can’t know w/ any level of certainty until you experiment.
One thing I do know is whatever unit Fox is on is going to be the better unit. I don’t care who the other 4 are.
One thing I do know is whatever unit Fox is on is going to be the better unit. I don’t care who the other 4 are.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,290
- 21,862
He has not been good. Harpur sucks but he is better (and frankly looks way better) than Hajek who is no exaggeration statistically the worst defenseman in hockey since 2020
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Worst thread I’ve ever seen on this forum.
The PP sucks a pigs ass and needs to be changed
The PP sucks a pigs ass and needs to be changed
It’s not even that the “keep it as is” argument is bad, it’s just that we have no basis for comparison. We’ve been trotting out the same 4 guys together for years now. It shouldn’t be sacrilege to say let’s see what another combo can do, especially given the amount of talent we have available.
And if types like Krieder or Panarin are that bothered by it, they’re welcomed to request a trade.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
Panarin and Zibby both thrive on the left flank and it's obvious Panarin prefers that spot. The top unit gets way too much time and I'm not a fan of KK, Chytil, Kravy & Laf getting 20 seconds of time. This move would give two potentially good units and allow them to split time more evenly.
If they did something like this, Trouba also needs to be removed. I'd obviously prefer Jones in that spot, but considering GG hates him would try anyone else there or maybe allow Fox to play on both. Elite players often do that. I'd also love to see what Fox could do with the kids. Get Laffy in that Kreider role. See what Kravy can do in Panarin's current role and give Panarin the Zibby role.
Unit 1
Kreider-Trocheck-KK
Zib-Fox
Unit 2
Laf-Chytil-Kravy
Panarin-Fox
If they did something like this, Trouba also needs to be removed. I'd obviously prefer Jones in that spot, but considering GG hates him would try anyone else there or maybe allow Fox to play on both. Elite players often do that. I'd also love to see what Fox could do with the kids. Get Laffy in that Kreider role. See what Kravy can do in Panarin's current role and give Panarin the Zibby role.
Unit 1
Kreider-Trocheck-KK
Zib-Fox
Unit 2
Laf-Chytil-Kravy
Panarin-Fox
Gordon Bombay
HFNYR Head Coach
- Oct 13, 2006
- 2,907
- 3,782
I don't have an issue with PP1 as a unit so much as I have an issue with the amount of ice time they get. In my 30 years of watching this team no PP has been this good at moving the puck and keeping it in the zone. Fox may be the best I've ever seen at keeping a puck in the zone. There really shouldn't be any denying that. Those 5 have chemistry, so yes don't break up that chemistry or geometry if you will.
Buttttt when we've dropped from the top 5 to start the year to 15-20 in the league maybe it's time we pull them off the ice when the puck is cleared and there's a minute left. Or PP2 starts the PP if PP1 has gone 0-2 or 0-3.
We have no doubt lost a couple games this year because of PP1 going 0-fer. Would PP2 score? Who knows, but we'll never know with the undying faith that they'll eventually score in the 2 mins. Who knows maybe if PP2 pots a goal after starting the PP, it might light a fire under PP1's ass to get it going.
They've been off for a while, a little break doesn't hurt. Not to mention if we do make the playoffs, what kind of shape are those 4 gonna be in playing 23-25 mins a night all year?
Buttttt when we've dropped from the top 5 to start the year to 15-20 in the league maybe it's time we pull them off the ice when the puck is cleared and there's a minute left. Or PP2 starts the PP if PP1 has gone 0-2 or 0-3.
We have no doubt lost a couple games this year because of PP1 going 0-fer. Would PP2 score? Who knows, but we'll never know with the undying faith that they'll eventually score in the 2 mins. Who knows maybe if PP2 pots a goal after starting the PP, it might light a fire under PP1's ass to get it going.
They've been off for a while, a little break doesn't hurt. Not to mention if we do make the playoffs, what kind of shape are those 4 gonna be in playing 23-25 mins a night all year?
hackeyman
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2018
- 3,027
- 3,279
I've warned a few others but this may have to be the sternest warning I've had to make yet.
PLEASE DON'T CONFUSE OTHER POSTERS WITH FACTS AND COMMON SENSE !
McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
- 14,159
- 26,376
I can buy that we’ve been unlucky. Still think we’ve been way too predictable and easy to defend though,
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,202
- 53,767
thats not how PP% works. You can't change the meaning and then use old metrics to say it's good.
Just like the rest of the offense, there's elite possession and no finishing. Kreider being the main difference. His deflection/net front goals are way down on the PP. He has 4PPGs this season. At this point, last season, he was at 12PPGs.
We need finishers on the PP. If Kreider isn't finishing, the unit is off balance. Trocheck has picked up some of the slack but not the enough. It'd be nice for Fox to have confidence in his shot because I honestly think it's pretty good. If Panarin hit the net, that'd be nice too.
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