Does the league need to change LTIR rules?

[TheImpatientBoomer]

So obviously the Matt Murray news has come out. 3 of the 4 past Cup teams have been significantly over the cap. Notably, Mark Stone and Kucherov missed significant time and were ready game 1. I don't think anyone would suggest they weren't hurt, but if they had to be ready for game 82 or they wouldn't be permitted to play in the playoffs, I'm confident they would have played. Now with Murray, he backed up game 3,4,5 vs Florida and now can't play. Are we reaching a boiling point with this or is everyone still good with how it is?

 

[ottawa]

I get that players are unpaid during the postseason but I never understood why teams shouldn't have to follow the same regular season salary cap rules during the playoffs. It just seems so logical.

 

[barriers]

I get that players are unpaid during the postseason but I never understood why teams shouldn't have to follow the same regular season salary cap rules during the playoffs. It just seems so logical.

How would that possibly work without a fixed amount of games/timeframe? The regular season salary cap is doled out daily. You basically have a $82.5M pile of money, you hand that money out daily to players on your roster whether it's a game day or not, and at the end of the 180 or days that comprise the season length, you must still have at least 1¢ left in your pile.

Logically, how that could work the same with some teams playing 4 games and some playing 25+.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Since the salary cap is so optional why not just get rid of it.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

No, if your favorite team is too dumb or too cheap to not take advantage of it then that's your problem

 

[Toby91ca]

The immediate thought is yes, but if you spend more time thinking about it....becomes very difficult to try and make a change. I know teams have abused it, there is no question about that and the Kucherov example is clear abuse....but it's hard to eliminate. Example, if you suggest the player needs to come back and play at the end of the regular season to play or he won't be eligible for playoffs it simply won't work....you should not insert a player in the lineup who is not physically cleared to play....at risk of further injury, etc. If someone is dealing with a long-term injury and they are projected to be ready by early 2nd round....there will be no support for a change that would cause that player to be ineligible. So, of course I'd love to see a fix, I'm just not sure of what that fix might look like.

 

[EdzosCrayon]

Yes. The new rule should be that every GM has to make an hfboards account and before they can put a player on LTIR, they must post a poll in this section of the forum for us to determine whether or not the injury is legitimate. If the forum users decide it is, a new poll will be created where we also decide when the player is ready to come back.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Since the salary cap is so optional why not just get rid of it.

This but unironically.

Or better, look at how the NFL, MLB and MLB do it. They allow things like luxury tax, franchise tags, contract restructuring.

It's anti-fun imo to have such a strict cap. The fact that Tampa had to gut themselves is just stupid imo. That org worked to build that core.

 

[TheImpatientBoomer]

Yes. The new rule should be that every GM has to make an hfboards account and before they can put a player on LTIR, they must post a poll in this section of the forum for us to determine whether or not the injury is legitimate. If the forum users decide it is, a new poll will be created where we also decide when the player is ready to come back.

Honestly a better idea than the current setting.

 

[ottawa]

How would that possibly work without a fixed amount of games/timeframe? The regular season salary cap is doled out daily. You basically have a $82.5M pile of money, you hand that money out daily to players on your roster whether it's a game day or not, and at the end of the 180 or days that comprise the season length, you must still have at least 1¢ left in your pile.

Logically, how that could work the same with some teams playing 4 games and some playing 25+.

That's under the assumption you're making a daily payment which won't happen.

What I'm saying is that your 23 man playoff roster needs to be below the regular season salary cap.

That or more ideally just get rid of a hard cap

 

[Mr Kot]

Since the salary cap is so optional why not just get rid of it.

this but unironically.

oh someone already said that

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

There's nothing wrong with the LTIR rule as conceived. If you have a player who is hurt, you should be able to replace the player.

Where things get dicey are:

a) Medical shenanigans... if a player isn't really hurt and is allowed on LTIR... or seems to have "miraculously" recovered just in time for the playoffs to start... well... the question here is whether teams/league are doing due medical diligence on enforcing the rule as opposed to the rule itself being a problem.

b) LTIRetirement... teams using medically retired players' Cap hits to reach the Cap floor, like Arizona. This shouldn't be a thing. If a player is KNOWN to have a career-ending injury, but still wants to collect the money on their contract, then that should be allowed and the player is sent to a non-team-specific LTIRetired list where they sit and get paid from the insurance policy, but it doesn't land on any team's Cap.

 

[Suntouchable13]

There's nothing wrong with the LTIR rule as conceived. If you have a player who is hurt, you should be able to replace the player.

Where things get dicey are:

a) Medical shenanigans... if a player isn't really hurt and is allowed on LTIR... or seems to have "miraculously" recovered just in time for the playoffs to start... well... the question here is whether teams/league are doing due medical diligence on enforcing the rule as opposed to the rule itself being a problem.

b) LTIRetirement... teams using medically retired players' Cap hits to reach the Cap floor, like Arizona. This shouldn't be a thing. If a player is KNOWN to have a career-ending injury, but still wants to collect the money on their contract, then that should be allowed and the player is sent to a non-team-specific LTIRetired list where they sit and get paid from the insurance policy, but it doesn't land on any team's Cap.

Thing is, even with Murray today, he is certainly ready for training camp IF the Leafs weren’t in any cap crunch. That’s my opinion, anyway. But I think you will find any independent doctor who will say he is unfit to play. There is no way to force a team to play this player. There is no way around it. Leafs are in a cap crunch and can put him on LTIR. Same way like so many players play through broken bones all the time, for example. Would any doctor clear Bergeron to play with a punctured lung and a broken rib in 2013 playoffs? No, but it wasn’t convenient to have him sit out and they needed him. Leafs can find something with Murray and say he is unfit to play. Very convenient for them.

 

[Jumptheshark]

there is one rule I would use. If a player goes on the LTIR he can not play that season.

 

[belfour30]

Honestly I think the best solution is that the salary cap only applies during the game. The roster on the ice has to be under the cap.

 

[Three On Zero]

Easy fix:

If a player is placed on LTIR during the season, they must appear in "X" amount of games to be eligible for the post season

Honestly I think the best solution is that the salary cap only applies during the game. The roster on the ice has to be under the cap.

With only 6 players on the ice, you could pay those players quite well

 

[CanesUltimate11]

The immediate thought is yes, but if you spend more time thinking about it....becomes very difficult to try and make a change. I know teams have abused it, there is no question about that and the Kucherov example is clear abuse....but it's hard to eliminate. Example, if you suggest the player needs to come back and play at the end of the regular season to play or he won't be eligible for playoffs it simply won't work....you should not insert a player in the lineup who is not physically cleared to play....at risk of further injury, etc. If someone is dealing with a long-term injury and they are projected to be ready by early 2nd round....there will be no support for a change that would cause that player to be ineligible. So, of course I'd love to see a fix, I'm just not sure of what that fix might look like.

I think a possible solution could be along the lines of a player must be on the active roster some number of games after the trade deadline or they are ineligible for at least the first round.

 

[Toby91ca]

I think a possible solution could be along the lines of a player must be on the active roster some number of games after the trade deadline or they are ineligible for at least the first round.

But even then, if the player truly cannot play, you are penalizing the team for a legitimate injury where you'd need replacement relief via cap.....wouldn't be fair.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

But even then, if the player truly cannot play, you are penalizing the team for a legitimate injury where you'd need replacement relief via cap.....wouldn't be fair.

They could still get the ltir relief from a replacement player. They just can’t have the injured player miraculously appear till later in the playoffs. Assuming they can make a return.

Basically protects against the Kucherov scenario (maybe the Kane scenario as well).

 

[Peat]

Yes.

My proposed fix would be that come the trade deadline, each team has a post-season cap applied based on accrued cap space. No team may ice an roster with a cap hit greater than that post-season cap. No sweat if you have 20m worth of guys eating popcorn in the rafters, the cap hit of the guys skating has to be equal to what you could afford at the deadline.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

this but unironically.

oh someone already said that

This but rhetorical, so anyways..

Just enforce it. Or luxury tax. Or anything. Literally any response to blatant cheating.

 

[AndreRoy]

So obviously the Matt Murray news has come out. 3 of the 4 past Cup teams have been significantly over the cap. Notably, Mark Stone and Kucherov missed significant time and were ready game 1. I don't think anyone would suggest they weren't hurt, but if they had to be ready for game 82 or they wouldn't be permitted to play in the playoffs, I'm confident they would have played. Now with Murray, he backed up game 3,4,5 vs Florida and now can't play. Are we reaching a boiling point with this or is everyone still good with how it is?

People are morons when it comes to Kuch’s injury. Forget game 82: he wasn’t ready when he returned for game 1 of the playoffs. He was clearly still injured and was a shell of his usual self on the ice; if it had been the regular season there’s no way he would have played. Kucherov didn’t wait to come back until the playoffs so that his team could load up at the deadline like the Blackhawks and Knights did - he came back early and played through a still-unhealed injury precisely because the playoffs were starting.

Now Kane and Stone were both highly suspicious cases, as unlike Tampa both of their teams loaded up at the deadline and unlike Kuch neither was obviously hobbled in the playoffs. But not only didn’t Tampa load up at the deadline in Kuch’s absence, they could have put Stamkos on IR to make even more room for deadline acquisitions and chose not to. The Blackhawks and Knights most certainly violated at least the spirit of the rule, albeit not the letter, and abused the LTIR rule to “cheat” the salary cap, but the Lightning did not - which should obvious to anyone with two functioning brain cells. People just can’t stand that Tampa has been the best team in the league over the past decade and so they have to make one excuse after another to discredit the Lightning’s success.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yes. At this point we know the system is being manipulated, just ****ing fix it already.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Nope, I'm fine with teams doing whatever they want to bypass the ridiculous salary cap. Though I would prefer to abolish the salary cap altogether.

 

[DowJones]

I would prefer to get rid of the salary cap, but as long as it exists this needs to be fixed.

It really isnt that complicated to do, just pro-rate the salaries it to each playoff game.