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Does Matthews play better without Marner?

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Michael HOMERUNing

Michael HOMERUNing

Registered User
Feb 24, 2019
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I'm not sure about the stats or the analytics here - going purely by the eye test: Matthews seems like a much more engaged player without Marner.

When he's paired with Mitch, he often floats around waiting for Marner to set him up with a good scoring chance - which does happen a lot. But Matthews himself is capable of creating his own chances. We saw that when he was playing with Bunting and Kase. Matthews became the guy driving play. He was more engaged physically. He carried the puck longer, danced around defenseman, and set up his wingers. It's like he goes from a pure sniper with Marner to a sniper-playmaker-grinder with lesser wingers.

By separating the two players, the Leafs would have two elite play drivers on two different lines. Both Marner and Matthews would be creating tons of scoring chances, theoretically doubling the amount of chances we get in the game
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Different lines for different matchups is my mantra.

You’re playing a track meet party game like the 8-6 Futures Game vs Carolina? Matthews and Marner make beautiful music together.

You want Matthews to play a playoff style power game in a closely contested physical matchup? Don’t put him with a guy who skews towards finesse and is scoring for style points. We’ve seen time and again that a big, defensively motivated opponent of various talent levels can stymie them.
 
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I'm not sure he plays better but he certainly plays a heavier game that's more like your traditional 6'3 C when not playing with Marner.

More north/south play, taking the puck right to the front of the net, engaging in more physical play, playing with overall more edge to his game and looks more like the style that works in the playoffs when the games become much tighter and you actually have to go through your opponent many times. When playing with Marner alot of the time it looks like hes doing the Brett Hull where he's looking to find a dead spot where he can just sit quietly until Marner hits him with a pass and then boom snipe.

Matthews and Marner combo will obviously score at a much higher clip but it definitely would be interesting to see what kind of player Matthews would become over a full season with two different style of wingers.
 
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The two are guilty of going all globetrotters when they’re paired together. Matthews is better with the north south grinders who keep things simple and he gets more touches on the puck.

Tavares and Marner have always been pretty good together so I’d go back to that. Nylander could feast on the 3rd line with Mikheyev and Kampf.

Lots of options but the Marner Matthews stuff should end, I feel like they get caved defensively too.
 
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I couldn't say that I wasn't necessarily a proponent of a Hull and Oates back in that time frame. I'd still of course hope the current Leafs could gel whether the combination is Matthews and Marner, Matthews and Nylander, Tavares and Marner, or Tavares and Nylander.
 
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It's not that Matthews needs grinders or doesn't need a playmaker, it's specifically Marner's approach to playmaking that is a bad fit for stretches. He'd be fine with a big bodied playmaker who can buy time like Rantanen or prime Voracek.
 
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I think Nylander has earned a spot to play with Matthews

therefore,

Marner with Tavares
 
TheShape said:
The two are guilty of going all globetrotters when they’re paired together. Matthews is better with the north south grinders who keep things simple and he gets more touches on the puck.

Tavares and Marner have always been pretty good together so I’d go back to that. Nylander could feast on the 3rd line with Mikheyev and Kampf.

Lots of options but the Marner Matthews stuff should end, I feel like they get caved defensively too.
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… mike Babcock is that you?
 
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TheShape said:
The pair worked for a bit until the league figured them out. It has ran its course.

Best version of each player is away from each other. You have anything else to offer?
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Since 2019 when they were united on the same line Matthews has scored the most goals in the league… including winning the rocket last year while Marner is top 10 in assist and top 15 in points.

The league hasn’t figured them out.

Teams have figured out how to shut down Marner in the playoffs and that’s probably the biggest issue.
 
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I’ve never advocated for Marner with Matthews.

They get too cutesy putesy together, and over pass the puck, big time.

Tavares-Marner works just fine and Nylander with Bunting and Matthews has a very interesting dynamic.
 
BertCorbeau said:
Since 2019 when they were united on the same line Matthews has scored the most goals in the league… including winning the rocket last year while Marner is top 10 in assist and top 15 in points.

The league hasn’t figured them out.

Teams have figured out how to shut down Marner in the playoffs and that’s probably the biggest issue.
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Meh, we played the same 6 teams on repeat last season, I don't put much stock into that offensive production. Muzzin/Holl looked like the top shutdown pair in the Canadian division and look at them this season against the rest of the league.

If you shut down one you shut down both, this is point and why people don't want to see them together anymore. Zero in on Marner who refuses to shoot and Matthews isn't getting near the puck. It's too predictable.
 
Play them on separate lines for now and keep them together on the powerplay. Matthews has been playing his best hockey without Marner 5 vs 5 this season.
 
I dont mind the idea of mixing things up for a few weeks. It's good to know/confirm that Matthews is perfectly fine on his own (and in turn has been able to develop great chemistry with Bunting).

Also no denying that Matthews-Marner was one of the most lethal tandems in the NHL last season.

Fundamentally it's a waste of 5v5 icetime to have any of the big 4 forwards on the team play for an extended time on the third line. Perfectly fine to do so for a few shifts mid game though. And if something happens similarly to the Habs playoff series again then they can try dropping Marner or Nylander there for a bit.
 
I think Marner-JT makes sense because Mitch needs space to do what he does and JT is excellent at drawing 2-3 defenders to him and jamming the puck in to places Mitch can make moves.

And I like Willy-Matthews because both are elite finishers who teams have to be very careful around with their speed and puck possession.

Mitch-Matthews can soar high but can also try a little too hard to make plays of the week.

Willy-JT is fine but it often feels like Willy is a little too fast for JT to keep up with, and Willy doesn’t always fully take advantage of the board game JT plays.
 
How about a line of WN-JT-MM and then AM with 2 randoms who sole purpose is to get the puck and give it to AM as quickly as possible and won't complain if AM hogs the puck
 
Menzinger said:
Fundamentally it's a waste of 5v5 icetime to have any of the big 4 forwards on the team play for an extended time on the third line. Perfectly fine to do so for a few shifts mid game though. And if something happens similarly to the Habs playoff series again then they can try dropping Marner or Nylander there for a bit.
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I don't agree, the 3rd line play regular shifts as Keefe has a lot of trust in Kampf/Mikheyev. Say it's Nylander on the 3rd line, he's still getting top PP minutes with the best players.

Another perfectly valid option is just playing Nylander 2nd line LW.
 
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