Did Dubas Trade away a future Conn Smythe Winner in Nazem Kadri?

[Havoc]

TBH if he was on the Leafs with this season and the Leafs did not win the cup, the sentiment would have been that Dubas is an idiot for not capitalizing on Kadri's trade value with the season he was having and keeping him as a "self rental"

This is not true at all. This board was put in this self rental position before and we came to a majority opinion that contenders keep their self rentals.

No offence but this place really needs to stop this game of making up fake scenarios to try to prove points.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

If only Kadri got the amount of second chances from management, as does Dubas gets from ownership.

Just watch. The same guys berating Kadri on here will be the same guys dumping on Dubas the moment he’s fired and kissing the next guys ass no matter what he does.

Lot of pure cheerleaders on here as well as “haters”.

 

[nsleaf]

Problem with this is trades are evaluate short term and long term.

Dubas has in the moment makes sense wins, but long term it's exposed to be a total loss. Impossible to win all trades but he doesn't have enough wins to offset the quality of loss.

Me and you both would have in common that we want quality of win to be more great than quality of loss and that is more important than excusing things because it made sense at the time. That accomplishes nothing.

The long term evaluation you speak of is using hindsight, irrelevant and accomplishes nothing as well.

 

[Shooter2x]

This is not true at all. This board was put in this self rental position before and we came to a majority opinion that contenders keep their self rentals.

No offence but this place really needs to stop this game of making up fake scenarios to try to prove points.

Any "we should have traded x and y" has nothing to do with the GM in a self-rental situation. It's more of a *sigh* I wish I had a crystal ball to show me I should have cashed in.

 

[ITM]

This Kadri deal is really shining right now as Kadri is a force in the playoffs. Still on a Leafs contract, and in the conversation for a Conn Smythe candidate.

If Kadri was signed today, long term at the same contract, what would you trade from the Leafs current roster to get him back in blue and white?

Not a drop pass in sight.

I think if Vasilevskiy shrugs a little more it'll be a moot point. Kadri's certainly been a force. He's been allowed to be by his club and the league. Is that trite to say? That Kadri the Avalance vs Kadri the Leaf presents a frightening commentary on the league's position against Toronto?

I'm on record as saying Kadri merely responded in kind to Boston driving the tone of the game but was penalized for the same behavior. Something very similar to what we experienced with Tampa.

Kessel the Penguin, Bozak the Blue, Kadri the Avalanche...It's a coincidence of sorts. But it does present a very curious indictment against a large portion of our fanbase that criticized all three for various reasons and who continue to scapegoat players who are never the problem or the largest part of the problem.

William Nylander has been our most consistent playoffs performer and the biggest bang for our buck amongst our core. And he's the subject of constant trade speculation: Nylander the Predator. Nylander the Duck. Nylander the most valuable trade chip we have now.

Well, so was Kadri.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

The long term evaluation you speak of is using hindsight, irrelevant and accomplishes nothing as well.

This is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

If evaluating a total body of work you need to accumulate the total quality of wins versus total quality of loss both short term and long term.

 

[ITM]

Kadri has looked like the player we all imagined back when he was selected 7th overall. He's found a new gear in Colorado.

There were signs here. I think the contract year is a big incentive though. Heck of a year and situation to come of age though, certainly.

Kadri had to go, let's get real here.

I don't think he did. I don't think we gave him enough benefit of the doubt again bias officiating. Not saying he was screwed of the Lady Byng or anything, but he played no more aggressively than any three Bruins that series.

And he didn't want to go to boot. Ouch.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

the only reason kadri isnt a leaf is he couldn't control himself if he got upset. from telling gio he's dead after getting erased by a clean hit. to getting suspended in pivotal playoff games and series in in consecutive seasons . its on kadri as much if not more then dubas.

 

[Mad hatter]

This is not true at all. This board was put in this self rental position before and we came to a majority opinion that contenders keep their self rentals.

No offence but this place really needs to stop this game of making up fake scenarios to try to prove points.

There’s was people complaining on here a few days ago about hanging on to JVR still. Definitely people would’ve been complaining about Dubas for not trading him for fair value at the deadline if we had a kept him till now.

 

[capfit9]

Nazem is an amazing player, but I think the frustration was really getting to him in the playoffs here. It was sadly one of those times you do need a change of scenery.

interesting, making a change for the sake of making a change. seems like this concept only applies to everyone but the management group

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

He’s playing great hockey in a contract year maybe he’s just all about a big pay day

Whoever signs a guy who goes ballistic in a contract year after a couple of meh kind of years deserves what is coming to them. This is the epitome of Kadri's career and he will never get back again. In saying that, I still think he should not have been given away for a lousy Barrie and $#@#$ Kerfoot.

 

[capfit9]

Not sure what this has to do with Kadri, but McCann was also a very smart trade, that allowed them to protect the more valuable Holl - who would have cost a lot to replace in last year's defenseman market.

Discussing things honestly.

it’s called lacking judgement from goaltending to prospects to contracts

 

[capfit9]

He’s been gone for some time now. Let it go.

you seem upset ? i wonder why ?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

No, he was here after that. He had to go after a disappointing year and two consecutive playoff suspensions that likely cost us both series (which came after a longer history of issues).

The rest of our core is not "interchangeable" (whatever you think that means).

I think we can stop with the "We lost because we were missing Kadri 2x and JT 1x" stuff. It's pretty obvious that we can't win even with all hands on deck...so them being out had little to do with our losses. We were up in both series at some point and still lost.

What Dubas should have done when he didn't get good offers was go into the season with him and pretend they were ok with keeping him. The fact he traded him so quickly worked against Dubas because all the GM's knew he was desperate.

 

[Dekes For Days]

it’s called lacking judgement

Except for the fact that both examples demonstrate good judgement.

 

[capfit9]

Kadri had to go, let's get real here.

why ?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I'd argue Kadri was given just as much of a chance to prove his maturity, if not more:

www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/looking-back-maple-leafs-nazem-kadris-lengthy-suspension-history

And not just one, but two playoff suspensions in back to back seasons was definitely the tipping point.

Why hasn't Brad Marchand been dumped by the Bruins yet?

Snap Shots: Brad Marchand Becomes Most-Suspended Player in NHL History - Puck Junk

Happy Valentines Day, beloved readers! The NHL was back to business as usual last week. Coaches were hired. Coaches were fired. There was a retirement, a suspension, and an announcement of a — shall we say unorthodox — arrangement between a team and an arena. It’s all covered in this week’s Snap...

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[capfit9]

The Kadri trade was dumb and we obviously lost it.

But I can’t help but laugh. Kadri early on in his career was called out a ton for not trying. As was Kessel. Both of them went on to have Smythe worthy performances.

Following this, I fully expect Willy to be traded only to win a Smythe a few years later.

And who traded both Kadri & Kessel. i think we all know the answer to that

 

[GirardSpinorama]

why ?

Because

1. Dubas paid too much money for Tavares and didn't understand how to fit another good center onto his team's salary structure. He isn't a competent cap manager or team builder. He lacks foresight and the leafs were in win-now mode.
2. Dubas had fans blaming Kadri for the 3rd first round loss in a row. He is the natural guy to move out.

 

[Kelly]

Jesus f***. Let it go.

Half of you we're bitching about Kadri and wanted him gone anyway.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think we can stop with the "We lost because we were missing Kadri 2x and JT 1x" stuff.

I'm not sure what ignoring legitimate context and arbitrarily blaming losses on random incorrect things accomplishes. If you don't think Kadri being there makes any difference, I don't know why we're having this discussion in the first place.

What Dubas should have done when he didn't get good offers was go into the season with him and pretend they were ok with keeping him.

The trade he got was fair value (actually seen as a slam dunk by pretty much everybody at the time), and not only would going into the season with him send a bad message and complicate filling out the defense, his value likely would have just continued to drop.

 

[paulhiggins]

Imagine thinking Kadri and Kapanen (what???) were our only "passionate Leafs".

Both were moved out for fair value. Actually, both were considered slam dunk wins by the overwhelming majority of the hockey community (including many of the people who now vehemently argue against it) at the time of the trade. I'm not sure if some people are retroactively overvaluing a middle-six player coming off a down year and two consecutive playoff suspensions, or if they're undervaluing a package of a slightly less offensive/more defensive and versatile middle six player and a high-end defenseman 50% retained. Maybe both.

Was there a poll created for the Kadri trade and did every single TO fan participate? It was one of TO GMs worst trades ever, comparable to JFJ and other incompetents. I for one, thought at the time our GM was ripped off and still do. The numbers speak for themselves. Dubas got robbed. If you see a little old lady getting beaten up by muggers you don't send the guy who tried to even things out to jail, nor do you stand around and watch hoping someone braver might intervene.

 

[ToneDog]

I think we can stop with the "We lost because we were missing Kadri 2x and JT 1x" stuff. It's pretty obvious that we can't win even with all hands on deck...so them being out had little to do with our losses. We were up in both series at some point and still lost.

What Dubas should have done when he didn't get good offers was go into the season with him and pretend they were ok with keeping him. The fact he traded him so quickly worked against Dubas because all the GM's knew he was desperate.

Wouldn't it be great to play poker against a guy who shows his hand ??

 

[ACC1224]

TBH if he was on the Leafs with this season and the Leafs did not win the cup, the sentiment would have been that Dubas is an idiot for not capitalizing on Kadri's trade value with the season he was having and keeping him as a "self rental"

Not a chance. I'm guessing this wasn't a serious thought.

 

[ToneDog]

Was there a poll created for the Kadri trade and did every single TO fan participate? It was one of TO GMs worst trades ever, comparable to JFJ and other incompetents. I for one, thought at the time our GM was ripped off and still do. The numbers speak for themselves. Dubas got robbed. If you see a little old lady getting beaten up by muggers you don't send the guy who tried to even things out to jail, nor do you stand around and watch hoping someone braver might intervene.

It was a slam dunk. LOL.