Confirmed with Link: Devils trade 2nd and 4th rounders for Mirco Mueller and 5th rounder

[Cult of Hynes]

Its about asset management. I haven't seen anything to suggest Mueller is even a potential NHLer. He is 22 and has yet to crack the Sharks lineup, let alone make an impact in the minors.

You still failed to answer how this is a bad trade.
What assets can be gained in the late 2nd round in a weak draft?

Are you aware of how long it takes for dmen to develop and to get going in the NHL? Also, the left side of the Sharks this year, a team that made the Cup finals the year before, was deep enough where he wasn't playing over more established players, especially with DeBoer as their coach and how he treats rookie dmen.

He wasn't playing over Martin, Schlemko, Vlassic and Dillon with DeBoer as the coach, especially when they didn't miss much time this season either.


Anyone they would have drafted in the late 2nd round in this years draft most likely would not be a better option than him.

 

[JimEIV]

Oh, and we can't forget they have DeBoer as their coach, we all know how he is with young dmen.

Severson and Merrill did very well under him. Wish he was still here.

 

[RSeen]

You still failed to answer how this is a bad trade.
What assets can be gained in the late 2nd round in a weak draft?

Are you aware of how long it takes for dmen to develop and to get going in the NHL? Also, the left side of the Sharks this year, a team that made the Cup finals the year before, was deep enough where he wasn't playing over more established players, especially with DeBoer as their coach and how he treats rookie dmen.

He wasn't playing over Martin, Schlemko, Vlassic and Dillon with DeBoer as the coach, especially when they didn't miss much time this season either.


Anyone they would have drafted in the late 2nd round in this years draft most likely would not be a better option than him.

Its a weaker draft at the top, but I haven't seen anything to suggest its weaker in terms of overall depth. More so in terms of high end talent.

Mueller is 22 and hasn't cracked an NHL lineup and is coming off a weak season. Pretty good chance he isn't going to turn out into anything.

I don't see how he was worth trading a 2nd. I think its a not so great trade because I think Mueller is worth less than what we gave up.

 

[Devils731]

Mueller is 22 and hasn't cracked an NHL lineup and is coming off a weak season. Pretty good chance he isn't going to turn out into anything.

Would we say the same thing about Santini? Already 22 and only played 38 NHL games. There's no excuse for that; if he was good enough to play NHL he would have left school earlier.

I think we all have good hopes for Santini but using this games played argument or cracking a NHL lineup would make Santini seem like he has no future too.

 

[TheDuke93]

Severson and Merrill did very well under him. Wish he was still here.

Did they? I don't remember anyone doing well with DB as coach lol.

 

[Nubmer6]

You still failed to answer how this is a bad trade.
What assets can be gained in the late 2nd round in a weak draft?

This is my take on it...
1. Mueller's numbers in the AHL look, frankly, bad.
2. By the looks of it, even if he becomes an NHL player, he looks like he's most likely going to be a 3rd line LHD - something we already have 2 of.
3. A mid 2nd is not worthless, even in a weak draft. What if, for example, the draft falls much like McKenzie's draft ranking and P-O Joseph falls to #33. It's very possible that adding #49 to #36 moves you up 3 spots.
4. We'll have to decide very quickly whether he's NHL ready or not, since he's waiver eligible, so we can't send him down without risking losing him if he's not.

 

[R8Devs]

they can use a lesser pick to move up a couple of spots in the 2nd round if that's what you're concerned about. just look at the trade they did a couple years ago to move down in the 2nd round.

they must think he's NHL ready -- they know his waiver eligibility and protected him.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Its about asset management. I haven't seen anything to suggest Mueller is even a potential NHLer. He is 22 and has yet to crack the Sharks lineup, let alone make an impact in the minors.

this again, huh?

 

[DatBoyJPP]

Did they? I don't remember anyone doing well with DB as coach lol.

Pretty much just Henrique

 

[Nubmer6]

this again, huh?

That just made me chuckle

 

[Tretyak 20]

Severson and Merrill did very well under him. Wish he was still here.

Oh, come on now! I know you like ruffling the majority's feathers around here, but seriously, you cannot really want Lead DeBlower, master of stealing defeat from the gaping jaws of victory, back on this team! One of the worst coaches we ever had. Totally dependent on his roster. I'd take Constantine back before Pete.

 

[MadDevil]

Oh great, DeBoer argument, Part 527...

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don't think I've ever seen this much ado over a 2nd round pick.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Its a weaker draft at the top, but I haven't seen anything to suggest its weaker in terms of overall depth. More so in terms of high end talent.

Mueller is 22 and hasn't cracked an NHL lineup and is coming off a weak season. Pretty good chance he isn't going to turn out into anything.

I don't see how he was worth trading a 2nd. I think its a not so great trade because I think Mueller is worth less than what we gave up.

Then you haven't been paying attention. It's been said by analysts time and time again it's a weak draft. Name one 2nd round player that would be taken around 49 that would be better than Mueller.

Lol you are seriously not well informed on the sharks. No way was he playing over veteran defensemen, especially with a coach that has track record with having an issue with young dmen.

You continue to show how you are completely uninformed how NHL defenseman development works.

This is my take on it...
1. Mueller's numbers in the AHL look, frankly, bad.
2. By the looks of it, even if he becomes an NHL player, he looks like he's most likely going to be a 3rd line LHD - something we already have 2 of.
3. A mid 2nd is not worthless, even in a weak draft. What if, for example, the draft falls much like McKenzie's draft ranking and P-O Joseph falls to #33. It's very possible that adding #49 to #36 moves you up 3 spots.
4. We'll have to decide very quickly whether he's NHL ready or not, since he's waiver eligible, so we can't send him down without risking losing him if he's not.

1. IDC, completely irrelevant to the NHL game. Some can tear it up down there and suck up in the NHL.
2. we have no clue what he looks like since he hasnt play a game for the Devils yet.
3. It is kind of worthless in a weak draft and is kind of a throw away pick when they have quite a few picks for next years draft, one that will be better. Besides, any player taken in the mid to late 2nd round, if they are NHL caliber, a big if in this draft, won't be ready for a few years. At which point, it's not really much of an issue when you have a chance at better players next year in a better draft.
4. A lot of worrying over a supposed at best 3rd pairing dman and over a lost mid - late 2nd round pick in a weak draft.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

I don't think I've ever seen this much ado over a 2nd round pick.

You would think that they traded their chance at Nico and Nolan away for him with how some people are whining about it.

 

[MadDevil]

I don't think I've ever seen this much ado over a 2nd round pick.

A pick that's just as much a roll of the dice (probably even more so) as the player it was traded for. Sure, there's a chance a good player could be had in the middle of the second round this year. There's also like a 65-70% chance that pick doesn't amount to anything. Also, any player taken there is likely 2-3 years from even being in the NHL.

I'm fine with taking a gamble on a 22 year old defenseman who might be a bit of a reclamation project. It's a relatively low risk move that could end up being a smart move if it works. If it doesn't, it's not going to kill us.

Now, if your argument is we should have kept the pick to move up at the draft, or used it as part of a trade for a more proven defender, that's fine. Maybe there could have been a deal at the draft, or after the expansion draft. Or maybe there wouldn't have been. The supposed flurry of activity has so far been a popcorn fart. I'm not sure the market is as active as people were predicting with all the side deals in place.

 

[Emperoreddy]

A pick that's just as much a roll of the dice (probably even more so) as the player it was traded for. Sure, there's a chance a good player could be had in the middle of the second round this year. There's also like a 65-70% chance that pick doesn't amount to anything. Also, any player taken there is likely 2-3 years from even being in the NHL.

I'm fine with taking a gamble on a 22 year old defenseman who might be a bit of a reclamation project. It's a relatively low risk move that could end up being a smart move if it works. If it doesn't, it's not going to kill us.

Now, if your argument is we should have kept the pick to move up at the draft, or used it as part of a trade for a more proven defender, that's fine. Maybe there could have been a deal at the draft, or after the expansion draft. Or maybe there wouldn't have been. The supposed flurry of activity has so far been a popcorn fart. I'm not sure the market is as active as people were predicting with all the side deals in place.

Yeah I'm not seeing it as that big a risk.

Rolling the dice on a former 1st rounder at a position of need. If it works it is a great deal. If it doesn't it isn't, but it also isn't really a huge loss.

 

[BomaLightDevils]

So now the d will be

Greene-Shattenkirk
Mueller-Severson
Moore-santini

I like the deal for what it is, you need to swing to hit a target but I know it's more comfortable to just stand and do nothing and say hey maybe we will hit on a late second round pick. This deal can give you so much value despite not giving anything huge away.

Remember we are not in the Lou Lam era anymore we give young players the a big chance to succeed, and this will pay of if you continue trying.

 

[JimEIV]

Oh, come on now! I know you like ruffling the majority's feathers around here, but seriously, you cannot really want Lead DeBlower, master of stealing defeat from the gaping jaws of victory, back on this team! One of the worst coaches we ever had. Totally dependent on his roster. I'd take Constantine back before Pete.

No, it wasn't said to get a rise...Deboer is a very good coach. In all honesty I can't believe that there's still some hold outs to that old Deboer meme after watching this current ameteur staff for the last two years.

In fact I would say he was one of the best coaches we've had in the last two decades. No one is on Lemaire level but after that, Deboer was easily a better coach than nervous breakdown Robinson, Sutter or Julien.

 

[JimEIV]

So now the d will be

Greene-Shattenkirk
Mueller-Severson
Moore-santini

I like the deal for what it is, you need to swing to hit a target but I know it's more comfortable to just stand and do nothing and say hey maybe we will hit on a late second round pick. This deal can give you so much value despite not giving anything huge away.

Remember we are not in the Lou Lam era anymore we give young players the a big chance to succeed, and this will pay of if you continue trying.

Nah.

I think the decision to protect Moore, pretty much ensures he's a top 4 defender for us next season.

No way Mueller goes from 4 games last season to top 4 this season. Highly unlikely anyway. Let's put it this way, I'd be more surprised to see Mueller as a top 4 than Mueller as a #7.

Protecting Moore is a bizarre decision.. John Moore has literally been the worst Defenseman in the entire league in shot for% over the last two years. By a lot. He's barely a regular NHL Defenseman but this organization has given him the nod over and over regardless of bad he is.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...1500&teamid=0&type=shots&sort=PCT&sortdir=ASC

 

[RSeen]

this again, huh?

Yes it is a negative factor.

 

[NJDevs26]

Yes it is a negative factor.

It's fair to cite Mueller's lack of production in the AHL as a negative factor but having a defense without any openings TO win a spot in the first place isn't neccesarily something that should be held against him. Unless you thought it was a negative on Larsson that Lou stockpiled eight NHL defenders after the lockout and he got sent down when he could go through waivers and the others couldn't.

 

[MadDevil]

Nah.

I think the decision to protect Moore, pretty much ensures he's a top 4 defender for us next season.

No way Mueller goes from 4 games last season to top 4 this season. Highly unlikely anyway. Let's put it this way, I'd be more surprised to see Mueller as a top 4 than Mueller as a #7.

Protecting Moore is a bizarre decision.. John Moore has literally been the worst Defenseman in the entire league in shot for% over the last two years. By a lot. He's barely a regular NHL Defenseman but this organization has given him the nod over and over regardless of bad he is.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...1500&teamid=0&type=shots&sort=PCT&sortdir=ASC

I feel like we've been over this at least a dozen times already. They value him because of his skating, and honestly who else would you have protected? Bennett? Merrill?

 

[JimEIV]

I feel like we've been over this at least a dozen times already. They value him because of his skating, and honestly who else would you have protected? Bennett? Merrill?

What good is skating if you don't know where to skate?

Of course Merrill. He is a far better defenseman than Moore.

 

[hidek91]

Few things that I wanted to say to all people who defend this trade:

1) Of course, at the age of 22 d-men still have area to improve however nothing he has done so far indicates that he is likely to end up being NHL top 4 d-man.

2) Of course, he will play in the NHL for Devils next season but looking at our "defence", anyone with a little of free time could play there.

3) Losing 2nd round pick isn't the end of the world, more likely than not player we would have picked, wouldn't become top6 forward or top4 d-man but still if you're managing assets wisely you try to maximize return in every possible way. 2nd round pick isn't the most valuable asset we had but at the same time it's nothing to scoff at, I'd take 2nd round pick over half of our players.

4) Mueller isn't worth 2nd round pick (no matter if draft is weak or strong) in a vacuum however it only gets WORSE if you take into account following circumstances:
- he was expansion draft eligible which means that he costs protection slot, SJS would have to expose him for sure,
- he's waiver ineligible which, again, means that if Sharks didn't trade him, he would be waived in september, which means they HAD to trade him.

5) Protecting Mueller will likely cost us Merrill in the expansion draft so the cost of Mueller was 2nd round pick, worse pick in the mid-rounds of the draft and the difference between Merrill and player that would have been picked by LV if we protected Merrill.

To sum it up, I think we overpaid. 3rd round pick would be max that we should have paid.